Male & Female conversations

Bottle_of_Smoke

Inspired by a thread on the ladies lounge which has turned into farce.

Why is it women rarely take part in debates on issues like science, history or current affairs?

So far I'm thinking they generally aren't as interested. However the girls I know who do take part in these type debates are generally more assertive than their counterparts..

Is it possible women are more worried about being wrong in front of people/men, or perhaps are men dismissive of women when discussing "important matters"?

kowloon

Met plenty of women who talk about science.
Not many interested in history that I've come across though.

Red Hand

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Inspired by a thread on the ladies lounge which has turned into farce.

Why is it women rarely take part in debates on issues like science, history or current affairs?

So far I'm thinking they generally aren't as interested. However the girls I know who do take part in these type debates are generally more assertive than their counterparts..

Is it possible women are more worried about being wrong in front of people/men, or perhaps are men dismissive of women when discussing "important matters"?

1. A thread is posted on why women don't debate stuff/take an interest in stuff in a forum where there is a large proportion of women.

2. Debate ensues in above thread

3. Poster doesn't accept that women can debate + poster cannot accept being wrong in front of women.

4. Therefore, poster starts a new thread on why women don't debate stuff/don't like being wrong in front of men.:pac:

Bottle_of_Smoke

You're so big and clever Jeremiah

I only posted one response to the actual topic on that thread which only one person responded to at the time of starting this thread(a guy) and said he was surprised as his OH does take part in these type debates.

I responded to another post saying someone was off topic(and I wasn't the only one)

It was in the ladies lounge which is far more light hearted than this board but I did think it was an interesting topic.

,8,1

Simple answer: men and women have different brains. Different things going on anatomically, which leads to divergent interests.

Macha

,8,1 wrote: »

Simple answer: men and women have different brains. Different things going on anatomically, which leads to divergent interests.

Do you have any more sweeping generalisations you'd like to throw in the ring?

http://dodsonandross.com/blogs/carlin/2009/01/birth-no-difference-between-male-female-brains

I'm not saying we're not different but that a lot more has to do with social conditioning than most people think.

It may be for fear of this attitude (j/k):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV8ggl2avcc

Well it's true. In the Mathematics, Physics and even the Atheism/Religious forum debates there are definitely more male debaters/contributors.

I just think it's a matter of interest. I've no doubt that women know as much as men about such issues, but I just don't think they have the same interest in debating them. Perhaps I'm wrong; But, I'm just talking from experience. (And it's a limited experience, as it's just from a handful of forums).

K4t

Girls out perform boys considerably in the Leaving Cert exam every year.

Girls are receiving better university degrees on average than boys every year.

Remember, women only gained the right to vote in Ireland in 1918.
In 1932 femal civil servants lost their jobs on marriage.
De Valera's 1937 constitution saw womens' place as 'in the home'.

Now even look at today. Terrible role models for young girls in the press every day (Jordan, Irish models etc.)
Women aren't even allowed join Portmarnock golf club ffs! Women still earn less than their male counterparts (doing the same job).

Women are of course as intelligent as men and certainly have the same potential as men imo. And when they finally achieve equal rights in all aspects of life as men, we will see that I was right.

btw, I'm not a feminist, I'm a 17yearold lad and I even watch porn. Shock horror!

Sleepy

K4t, I agree with you in regard to the female 'role models' in the media (personally I'll be teaching my daughter to treat them as models of how not to live your life worthy of derision and scorn) but you can bring up Portmarnock when every Curves in the country is accepting male members, when pole dancing classes in gyms and community halls are available to men etc. etc. etc. There's nothing wrong with having environments that are male or female only once both sexes are allowed to do it.

OP, you could ask the same question as to why is it that men aren't generally interested in discussing (or watching) soap operas or reality TV. IMHO men and women are both biologically wired and socially conditioned to be different.

On your original topic, the three people I most enjoy debating with are female and some of the best debates I've had on boards have been oposing female posters. From my experience of the Literary and Debating society in NUI, Galway (albeit 6 years ago) the society had quite an even active membership. There may have been a slight imbalance but not hugely so.

brianthebard

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

Well it's true. In the Mathematics, Physics and even the Atheism/Religious forum debates there are definitely more male debaters/contributors.

But there are more men on boards than women anyways so that proves nothing.

Bottle_of_Smoke

K4t wrote: »

Girls out perform boys considerably in the Leaving Cert exam every year.

Girls are receiving better university degrees on average than boys every year.

Remember, women only gained the right to vote in Ireland in 1918.
In 1932 femal civil servants lost their jobs on marriage.
De Valera's 1937 constitution saw womens' place as 'in the home'.

Now even look at today. Terrible role models for young girls in the press every day (Jordan, Irish models etc.)
Women aren't even allowed join Portmarnock golf club ffs! Women still earn less than their male counterparts (doing the same job).

Women are of course as intelligent as men and certainly have the same potential as men imo. And when they finally achieve equal rights in all aspects of life as men, we will see that I was right.

btw, I'm not a feminist, I'm a 17yearold lad and I even watch porn. Shock horror!

I don't doubt for a second that women are as intelligent as men. I really hope it doesn't come across that I'm just calling women morons.

That's why I find it odd they don't take part in discussions. I'm starting to think they are interested just a lot don't want to speak up in front of men, which I think is a terrible shame

As for soap operas. Men do like some of them, most guys like skins & desperate housewives, and I'd bet a lot more than admit to it watch coronation street/eastenders/fair city. The only reason they don't talk about it is they'd be afraid someone would laugh at them.

Reality TV, I've worked in places where guys were giving out about people in the shows, I enjoyed big brother the first year but couldn't keep up when it went 24 hour. Dragon's Den is legendary

994

K4t wrote: »

Girls out perform boys considerably in the Leaving Cert exam every year.

Girls are receiving better university degrees on average than boys every year.

Remember, women only gained the right to vote in Ireland in 1918.
In 1932 femal civil servants lost their jobs on marriage.
De Valera's 1937 constitution saw womens' place as 'in the home'.

Now even look at today. Terrible role models for young girls in the press every day (Jordan, Irish models etc.)
Women aren't even allowed join Portmarnock golf club ffs! Women still earn less than their male counterparts (doing the same job).

Women are of course as intelligent as men and certainly have the same potential as men imo. And when they finally achieve equal rights in all aspects of life as men, we will see that I was right.

btw, I'm not a feminist, I'm a 17yearold lad and I even watch porn. Shock horror!

So if girls do better in the education system it's proof of their superiority; of course, if boys did better it would be because of an unequal system. And where do you get "Women still earn less than their male counterparts (doing the same job)." from? Any actual examples?

Chips Lovell

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Why is it women rarely take part in debates on issues like science, history or current affairs?

Most of the women I know do.

Bottle_of_Smoke

el tonto wrote: »

Most of the women I know do.

How old do they tend to be?

I'm 23 myself but most of my female friends are a bit younger. That's actually something I didn't consider at all.

brianthebard

brianthebard wrote: »

But there are more men on boards than women anyways so that proves nothing.

Did I say it proved anything? No. I was stating an observation.

sambuka41

I find alot of men are very dismissive of women when debating. I have a degree in Psychology and love debates around the area of science,but on numerous occassions ive been told im wrong (by men) when discussing them. Most often the guy has read a couple of books and thinks he's a genius. I point out the ignorance but rarely continue the debate because its pointless.

I also find men to be pushy and louder in the way they debate,most women dont debate like this so they lose interest. Id say if women dont engage its due to a lack of interest rather than being afraid to be wrong in front of men.

Personally i prefer a genuine exploration of the subject from both sides rather than setting out just to back the other person into a corner (another thing ive noticed men be guilty of!)

Dont get me started on how men react if you have an opinion that could in any way be perceived as feminist!!!:D

Dont get me wrong not saying all men are like this but more often than not thats the attitude ive faced.

brianthebard

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

Did I say it proved anything? No. I was stating an observation.

You said it was true, presumably in relation to the statement that more men than women contribute to certain types of debate. It was thus inferred that you believed the statement was true, and that you were proving it with your observation.

brianthebard

brianthebard wrote: »

You said it was true, presumably in relation to the statement that more men than women contribute to certain types of debate. It was thus inferred that you believed the statement was true, and that you were proving it with your observation.

Well would you agree that less women than men enter into fields in physics/maths? Look at an average Leaving Cert. physics class - there's rarely a girl. Look at maths and physics courses in college, there's nearly always far more men than women. Look at prominent scientists/mathematicans - generally there are far more men than women. Now, look at debates on the internet about such topics - there are generally always more men than women. That was my point.

Now, call this what you wish - it's an observation; I haven't drawn any conclusions from it. I don't know what the reasons are - and I don't care for the reasons - I was meerly stating an observation.

GirlInterrupted

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

Well it's true. In the Mathematics, Physics and even the Atheism/Religious forum debates there are definitely more male debaters/contributors.

I just think it's a matter of interest. I've no doubt that women know as much as men about such issues, but I just don't think they have the same interest in debating them. Perhaps I'm wrong; But, I'm just talking from experience. (And it's a limited experience, as it's just from a handful of forums).

Often I find that any debate in the company of men ends with me being simply shouted down, something I'm not interested in engaging in.

Could just be the company I keep though!

Earthhorse

sambuka41 wrote: »

I find alot of men are very dismissive of women when debating.

Come now! That's just not true.

sambuka41 wrote: »

I also find men to be pushy and louder in the way they debate,most women dont debate like this so they lose interest. Id say if women dont engage its due to a lack of interest rather than being afraid to be wrong in front of men.

The truth is, most (thought I'm not sure it is most) men are dismissive of men too.

sambuka41 wrote: »

Personally i prefer a genuine exploration of the subject from both sides rather than setting out just to back the other person into a corner (another thing ive noticed men be guilty of!)

The problem is that most people enter discussions with an interest in being right rather than seeking truth.

brianthebard

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

Well would you agree that less women than men enter into fields in physics/maths? Look at an average Leaving Cert. physics class - there's rarely a girl. Look at maths and physics courses in college, there's nearly always far more men than women. Look at prominent scientists/mathematicans - generally there are far more men than women. Now, look at debates on the internet about such topics - there are generally always more men than women. That was my point.

Now, call this what you wish - it's an observation; I haven't drawn any conclusions from it. I don't know what the reasons are - and I don't care for the reasons - I was meerly stating an observation.

OK, but how much of this is something to do with one's gender, and how much of this is to do with social opinions of what different people should be interested in based on gender? I see what you mean, but if we take the example of prominent scientists-they would have to have been in their field for 30 or 40 years, and it that is the case then they would've qualified just around the time it was expected of women to retire upon marrying. Often we assume that because something like that has changed, that once discrimination is not enforced intentionally, that the situation is corrected but obviously it takes decades and decades for there to be a change.

If we look at Irish politics most politicians are men. But if we look at some of the Scandinavian countries their parliament is almost 50/50. Why? Because through many equality laws they have created that ratio. Same in their businesses. So imo its a social issue, not a gender issue.

johnnyskeleton

Earthhorse wrote: »

Come now! That's just not true.

Mr Benevolent

Most of the women I've known loved to debate. My OH will debate anything, and she's usually right. Mainly I've found that men's debating technique is just too poor to stand up to any argument. Logic is thrown aside, voices rise and the topic goes out the window. Women prefer reasoned debate, a skill that I'm only just beginning to acquire.

(Just as an observation, groups of women tend to talk about people, groups of men tend to talk about ideas and things)

bigstar

its a social construction. its not that women dont debate or take an interest in these things, but there are more men there to start with. were talking about hundreds of years of male orientated society, how easy do you think it is for a women to decide on a career dominated by men. most academics were men, the most visible academics/debaters are men. the system we live in makes it seem like women are not as vocal but only because there are ten more men shouting them down