Domestic rates

ranger4

Are we likly to see the return with property rates as the government are set to turn the screw and extract money from people by any means possible, theyd better start a prision building programe if they introduce this as thousands i feel would refuse to pay.

gurramok

Why should we be in Ireland excluded from this?

Every other country has a similar tax in one form or shape.

Where do you propose to raise the revenue to pay for running of the country?

By the way, the same was said about prison for the bin tax but the vast majority did pay it.

ranger4

gurramok wrote: »

Why should we be in Ireland excluded from this?

Every other country has a similar tax in one form or shape.

Where do you propose to raise the revenue to pay for running of the country?

By the way, the same was said about prison for the bin tax but the vast majority did pay it.

the vast majority of people allready pay for services why should we be expected to pay again? I recycle my rubbish have my own bored well which i maintain and repair for water, waste from septic tank is used as fertilizer for crops etc, why should i pay again? with regard to raising funds to help run the country i feel a extra FAIR TAX on EARNINGS system should be used, Why is our leader cowan paid more than any other leader in europe? why are are tds earning thousands more than their eu counterparts? Think its about time that all the TDs showed real leadership and share the pain and accepted a 30-40% reduction with their pay and not be allowed to make up reduction by raising expensis etc, I am willing to pay my share with extra tax on my earnings are they willing to do their part.

Mailman

Fingal Co. Co. already have rates. €110 for your wheelie bin before you even use it. It's just rates by another name.

Mizu_Ger

I already pay a management company fee and pay for Bins. On top of this (as with many people) I paid a fair few quid in stamp duty when I bought the house. I don't see what the reasoning for having to pay a property tax is after paying all this.

What exactly does a property tax fund, specifically, other than general spending?

BroomBurner

I will be raging mad if they introduce this. I don't believe it will be the same as other countries.

In the UK, householders are charged rates but these rates cover essential services. In Ireland, we cover the costs of essential services ourselves, so how is it similar?

gurramok

ranger4 wrote:

the vast majority of people allready pay for services why should we be expected to pay again? I recycle my rubbish have my own bored well which i maintain and repair for water, waste from septic tank is used as fertilizer for crops etc, why should i pay again? with regard to raising funds to help run the country i feel a extra FAIR TAX on EARNINGS system should be used, Why is our leader cowan paid more than any other leader in europe? why are are tds earning thousands more than their eu counterparts? Think its about time that all the TDs showed real leadership and share the pain and accepted a 30-40% reduction with their pay and not be allowed to make up reduction by raising expensis etc, I am willing to pay my share with extra tax on my earnings are they willing to do their part

Based on the UK model, most of it goes towards local services like your water, rubbish, police, fire brigade etc which are managed by your local council.
I'd imagine present 'rates' will be abolished if they do introduce the new one. Also a good thing will be to get people interested in what their councils do with their money and vote out who they do not like managing their money, that does not happen now.

Management fees are private so privately managed complexes probably will be excluded.

Abolishing TD's gravy train won't raise billions, only a few million but yeh they need to be looked at as well.

Sleipnir

Mailman wrote: »

Fingal Co. Co. already have rates. €110 for your wheelie bin before you even use it. It's just rates by another name.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. If they want rates, they can get rid of the bin tax first.

And the credit/debit card "levy" (AKA:tax)
Insurance "levy" (AKA:tax)
ESB "levy" (AKA:tax)
GAS" "levy" (AKA:tax)

asdasd

If they want rates, they can get rid of the bin tax first.

And the credit/debit card "levy" (AKA:tax)
Insurance "levy" (AKA:tax)
ESB "levy" (AKA:tax)
GAS" "levy" (AKA:tax)

only one of those goes towards local government.

cavedave

Mailman

Fingal Co. Co. already have rates. €110 for your wheelie bin before you even use it. It's just rates by another name.

Yep why should you pay rates and other people not have to pay it?

ranger4

with regard to raising funds to help run the country i feel a extra FAIR TAX on EARNINGS system should be used

do you have any evidence that an increase in direct tax on income (i.e. PAYE) will more fairly effect those who actually earn income than an indirect tax on property?

ranger4

cavedave wrote: »

Yep why should you pay rates and other people not have to pay it?


do you have any evidence that an increase in direct tax on income (i.e. PAYE) will more fairly effect those who actually earn income than an indirect tax on property?

sounds fair enough to me for all of us paye and self imployed to pay a percentage of our earnings to go towards government to use WISELY and not place an overall tax on property accross the board where you would see the average worker exsisiting on min wage paying the same property tax as a millionare.

AlekSmart

Its worth noting that all Irish Local Authorities continued to maintain and update the Rateable Valuation Lists for their areas.

Essentially this means that Domestic Rates could be re-introduced at the stroke of a Ministerial pen.

There is a train of thought which says that their abolotion (Dr Martin O Donoughue 1977 ?) was a mistake of huge magnitude in real terms,although when added to the £5 road tax it presented the Electorate with a Fianna Fàil Dreamticket Government.

Ahh Joxer..dem wuz de days....

cavedave

ranger4

sounds fair enough to me for all of us paye and self imployed to pay a percentage of our earnings to go towards government to use WISELY and not place an overall tax on property accross the board where you would see the average worker exsisiting on min wage paying the same property tax as a millionare.

Depends on the property tax that is introduced. Most minimum wage earners do not own property. However quite a few people who under report their earnings for tax reasons do own high valuation properties.

It is a general question of direct versus indirect tax. Direct are fairer (i believe) once everyone honestly reports their income, but they do not. I am wondering if there is any evidence about the Irish economy at the moment about the under reporting of income, obviously this would have to be a rough estimate.

Sleipnir

asdasd wrote: »

only one of those goes towards local government.

When the government is taking so much of my money via the back door, I don't care if it's local, central or galactic.

The_Minister

Sleipnir wrote: »

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. If they want rates, they can get rid of the bin tax first.

And the credit/debit card "levy" (AKA:tax)
Insurance "levy" (AKA:tax)
ESB "levy" (AKA:tax)
GAS" "levy" (AKA:tax)

Do you think that anyone doesn't know that a levy = a tax?

Sleipnir

The_Minister wrote: »

Do you think that anyone doesn't know that a levy = a tax?

Dear oh dear this is hard work.

No, my point was simply that governments often use the word "levy" instead of the word "tax" because that's a dirty word in government circles just as companies call a drop in price "a reduction" yet call an increase a "price change"
In any case, it's still a tax and we all know it so they should just call in that. (low tax but high levy economy?) Which you've proven so that all worked out quite nicely wouldn't you say? In record time to0 and with the minimum of casualties.

So unless there are any more semantics you'd like to run by me....?
(And you call yourself the minister!?)

Godge

Is this an economics thread?

There is a need to widen the tax base. This can mainly be done through the introduction of some sort of property/wealth tax.

One of the biggest issues with the fall in tax revenue relates to the fact that we were taxing activity i.e. VAT on purchases made, income tax on money earned, capital gains tax on profits taken and stamp duty on property and shares bought. Once the activity went off a cliff, the taxes plummeted.

A property/wealth tax on assets encourages activity and the productive use of assets. If you are paying an annual tax on an undeveloped site in Dublin city centre (count the sites, there are hundreds), you are encouraged to develop that site in order to gain income to pay the tax. Ireland's property boom was caused by a number of factors - immigration, easy credit, smaller households - but a large part of it was the ability of a small number of developers to restrict the availability of building land. By slowly releasing available land, they were able to restict supply and further fuel the property boom. They could do this because they bought the land cheap, had it rezoned and sat on it. An assets tax of some kind restricts their ability to do this.

Of course, if you did introduce a property tax, you would have to abolish stamp duty and offer some relief for those on smaller incomes with less valuable property.

There are other reasons why a property tax would be useful but when you add up that it would bring revenue into state coffers and could possibly act as a stimulus to economic activity, it beats raising income taxes or income levies.