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Were the prequels really all that bad??

  • 12-01-2009 11:11pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭


    This has been discussed many a time, but I'd like to bring it up again...just because...

    Were the prequel movies really all that bad?? I quite enjoyed them (a lot in fact), and other than Jar Jar and a few other minor hiccups, I think their only failing was that they could never, no matter how good, have lived up to the hype and expectations; which is really our own fault.

    I mean, what was so bad about them?? What exactly did they lack that the Episodes IV - VI had??


Comments

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I love the prequals - Episode three especially.

    The face off in Episode one between Obi, Qui and Maul just before they begin to duel is great! :) (many other great moments too, just that one is off the top of my head!)

    I never liked Jar-Jar though, and wasn't surprised that he played an integral part in bringing down the Old Republic.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 242 ✭✭bigdaddyliamo


    Yes, yes they were. They just tried too hard to wedge in the formula. Also the acting could not have been more wooden if it had been sponsored by sadolin:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,920 ✭✭✭AnCapaillMor


    I thought they were good not as bad as people made out, i think alot of people were expecting the same impact that the originals had when they come out, which was next to impossible. I loved 3, clone wars was the weakest of the 3.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,449 ✭✭✭Call Me Jimmy


    Phantom of the menace was the best of the three. It had jar jar.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,187 ✭✭✭keefg


    As much as I hate to admit it....I think the prequels were pretty terrible with the exception of a few decent fight scenes.

    And as another post has mentioned, the acting is just painful (as much as I like McGregor) and that Hayden fella is a plank altogether.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 848 ✭✭✭armour87


    With the exception of the dour love story, Episode Two is one of my favourites. Well...Top 4....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,900 ✭✭✭V9


    hmmm, I dunno, hard to say, each of the three films had great elements. The duel in Ep 1 was brilliant, imo. Ep 2 had that fantastic battle at the end and loads of jedi with lightsabers just before that. (still wish they used yellow and handed out more purple sabers though) Ep 3 was by far my favorite, god I love my Clones. :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,519 ✭✭✭Rawr


    Although nowhere near the classic trilogy (Eps4-6), I would consider Episodes 1 - 3 as mostly enjoyable and pretty good. However, that is considering them together them as a trilogy. Individually the films cannot stand alone very well, unlike the classic trilogy where each film (although connected in an ark) could stand on their own as films in their own right.

    As for each film:

    Episode 1
    There's a lot to love and hate in this one I feel, however it is very much the weakest in the trilogy. Jar Jar Binks is a big minus here. Although Star Wars often benefits from the inclusion of odd-ball aliens like Chewie and Jabba the Hutt, Jar Jar was poorly written and was aimed the youngest demographic possible, forsaking all others it seems.
    Jake Lloyd's Anakin Skywalker is just a pure example of how not to direct (or cast) a child actor. However, for me, the Trade Federation's Droid Army was one of the positive elements in this film. Long before becoming the comic mess that they are now, the Battle Droids acted as an odd and very interesting enemy.
    Although the lightsabre dual was great, I disliked much of the ending which felt very much like a re-hash of Episode 4's ending, with dog-fights, a 'Death Star' blowing up (be it a Droid Control Ship) and a very poor closing scene in the streets of the Naboo capital.

    Episode 2
    Things seriously pick up here I feel. With Lloyd out of the way, Chistensen takes the role of adult Anakin, and to be honest does an OK job. The role could have been casted better, for sure. I enjoyed the background to the Storm Troopers in this film and found it to be a very interesting role-reversal to see early Storm Troopers (Clone Troopers) to be aiding the good guys.
    The love story featured in Episode 2 is by far the lowest point of the film.

    Episode 3
    This is my favourite of the lot. The opening battle is just great, and final days of the Clone Wars are a treat to watch as well as the beginning of the Jedi Purge with Order 66 (turning those Clones into the baddies we all know well :D) The birth of Darth Vader was also cool, but the whole thing of him screaming 'NOOO!!!' was kinda weird. I recon they should have just have him scream and smash some stuff (like he did in that scene).
    I felt that the ending was done well, and did a good job of matching up with Episode 4.

    Anyway, that's my opinion on those 3 films. Not everyone would share the same views, but that's just how I regard them. 3 Ok films with some classic moments and some moments I wish never happened...(damn you Jar Jar)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 726 ✭✭✭Mr. Frost


    I'm more of a fan of the 1 & 3 with the second one being my least favourite, though it did develop the story quite a bit. I can't really put my finger on it but I just don't like the feel of Attack of the Clones.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,566 ✭✭✭glenjamin


    I loved the prequels. I felt that it has made IV-VI even better. What I didn't like was like everyone else, Jar Jar, C-3PO being built by Anakin, Boba Fett being a clone of Jango, and the love story being such a major part of the 3 films. Saying that the fight scenes and CGI were amazing plus the introduction of such characters as Mace Windu, Count Dooku, Darth Maul, and Qui-Gon Jinn made the whole Star Wars experience so much more better. Episode III will always be my favourite.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,449 ✭✭✭Call Me Jimmy


    I feel the use of CGI (which is nowhere near good enough to be used on that scale) takes away from the character and charm of the prequels. Terrible casting and some very dodgy writing (not dialogue, that was always dodgy) meant that before filming they were already a cocktail for disaster.

    I don't know how exactly to describe it, but the word that comes to mind when I think of the look of these films is 'glossy'. Maybe it's just me but the constant bad cgi completely kills any immersion.

    I'm not the biggest fan of the other star wars movies but I enjoyed them. Prequels - not so much.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭Feelgood


    This reminds me of the time I went to see The Phantom Menance with a mate of mine and when we came out I asked him

    "Well what did you think of that?"

    to which he replid deadly in earnest...

    "Thought it was a bit far fetched to be honest"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,475 ✭✭✭✭Blazer


    I hate the prequels..I hope George Lucas spends an eternity in hell getting a lightsaber rammed up his ass.
    I hated Jar Jar Binks..and Ep3 really took the piss from stupid retard Battledroids (R2D2 flying scene) to watching 2 wookies copying Tarzan :mad:
    I could go on and on but won't.
    I really hope someone remakes this in about 20 years and make it a lot darker with the stupid aliens and without Lucas being involved.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,393 ✭✭✭✭Vegeta


    Things I disliked about prequels

    Jar Jar, may as well have been a telly tubby

    Love Story between Anakin and Padme, necessary I know as a vessel for the plot but didn't enjoy most scenes which dealt with it.

    And the casting of both child and adult Anakin Skywalker, especially Hayden Christensen. He was such a whining moany c u n t. Now fair enough that was probably the direction as opposed to his personality but I hated having to watch him be a cry baby.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,182 ✭✭✭nyarlothothep


    they're not bad at all, 2 and 3 were decent enough, 1 was a bit crap, not much happened, kind of like a book called the wolves of calla. The problem is they will be compared to episodes 4-6, which made a huge impact at the time and revolutionized film making, so they will inevitably come up short. Episode 6 was a bit sh1t as well, in the respect that they had a perfectly good film, with dark exposition, and then they bring the friggin ewoks in. They were totally unnecessary and spoiled the scenes somewhat in which Luke confronts the sith lord.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭evil-monkey


    Yes, yes they were. They just tried too hard to wedge in the formula. Also the acting could not have been more wooden if it had been sponsored by sadolin:D

    I thought the acting was fine. McGregor, Jackson, Portman, McDiarmid all did well. Christiansen was a bit whiney all right, but I think Anakin had to be like that...you couldn't help but grit your teeth at him...
    I feel the use of CGI (which is nowhere near good enough to be used on that scale) takes away from the character and charm of the prequels. Terrible casting and some very dodgy writing (not dialogue, that was always dodgy) meant that before filming they were already a cocktail for disaster.

    Ah no way, the CGI was very good. From the fully animated Yoda to the all out battle scenes, I've seen few films come close imho...
    I hate the prequels..I hope George Lucas spends an eternity in hell getting a lightsaber rammed up his ass.
    I hated Jar Jar Binks..and Ep3 really took the piss from stupid retard Battledroids (R2D2 flying scene) to watching 2 wookies copying Tarzan :mad:
    I could go on and on but won't.
    I really hope someone remakes this in about 20 years and make it a lot darker with the stupid aliens and without Lucas being involved.

    :rolleyes: Have you any really criticisms to make?? Or should I take the comment "I hope George Lucas spends an eternity in hell getting a lightsaber rammed up his ass" as an indication of your skills as a critic??
    Vegeta wrote: »
    Things I disliked about prequels

    Jar Jar, may as well have been a telly tubby

    True, but as with the Ewoks in Return of the Jedi, we must remember that Lucas wanted to attract the younger audiences as well. To them, Jar Jar was great, and he made for an even greater toy. I think he succeeded in making the films accessible to both younger and older audiences through the inclusion of such characters (which he always does)...
    Vegeta wrote: »
    And the casting of both child and adult Anakin Skywalker, especially Hayden Christensen. He was such a whining moany c u n t. Now fair enough that was probably the direction as opposed to his personality but I hated having to watch him be a cry baby.

    Didn't we all...but as you say, I think his personality was meant to be portrayed like this.


    I just can't see why so many people hate the first 3 eps. It's like this, when eps iv-vi were released, they weren't like anything that anyone had seen before. And no matter what Lucas did with the prequels, he couldn't have lived up the the hype in all our heads. Just look at eps iv - vi ; the destruction of Alderaan, the duel between Vader and Obi-Wan - these should have been two of the greatest moments in cinematic history...but they weren't. The destruction of Alderaan was treated like they all decided to go for a bottle of milk; nothing special about it. Leia didn't even seem bothered at all. There was no attempts to make it as horrific as possible for the viewer (showing the people on Alderaan just before etc). I really enjoyed all the SW films...and sure there was something about eps iv - vi that just felt better, but if you sit down and compare the six realistically, you cannot say that the newer ones are all that bad...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,566 ✭✭✭glenjamin


    I just can't see why so many people hate the first 3 eps. It's like this, when eps iv-vi were released, they weren't like anything that anyone had seen before. And no matter what Lucas did with the prequels, he couldn't have lived up the the hype in all our heads. Just look at eps iv - vi ; the destruction of Alderaan, the duel between Vader and Obi-Wan - these should have been two of the greatest moments in cinematic history...but they weren't. The destruction of Alderaan was treated like they all decided to go for a bottle of milk; nothing special about it. Leia didn't even seem bothered at all. There was no attempts to make it as horrific as possible for the viewer (showing the people on Alderaan just before etc). I really enjoyed all the SW films...and sure there was something about eps iv - vi that just felt better, but if you sit down and compare the six realistically, you cannot say that the newer ones are all that bad...

    Lately Episode IV has really gone down IMO. There is just no comparision between the Obi Wan and Vader duel in Ep IV to that of Ep III on Mustafar anymore. They just look so old and ackward with the lightsaber when on the Death Star. Whilst the duel on Mustafar was the climatic point for me in Ep III and made the prequels worth while. The destruction of Alderaan was poorly done when you watch it now. But the one thing that I really dislike was the way the Death Star was destroyed in Ep IV. For me that was a mistake destroying it so soon only to build another one in time for Ep VI. I think if Lucas could change one thing he would make the Death Star the main plot behind IV to VI just like I to III was all about the transforamtion of Anakin into Darth Vader (along with the rise of the Empire and the fall of the Jedi).

    I know I'm probably coming off as one of these kids who had all 6 Episodes available and who never knew what it was like when there were only 3 films made but thats not true. I watched IV to VI when they were still called I to III but I still got to admit that I prefer the prequels, not because of the CGI or anything, but because of the storylines.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,921 ✭✭✭✭Pigman II


    Currently reading The Making of Star Wars (JW Rinzler) and there's frequent mentions of how Lucas went to great lengths to ensure everything looked as real as possible. Cinema veritae if you will. He wanted everything the movie to look almost documentary style as tho you could buy into everything you were seeing on screen. This could only be accomplished if a special effects shot could match perfectly into an interior studio shot or vice verse etc.

    For example the use of a motion control cameras. Up to this point sci-fi movies and tv shows that employed starfield shots from an optical printer were "locked off" (that is to say the camera didn't move during the shot). The shot might look nice and spiffy but at but the fact that the camera wasn't moving around the objects whilst the image played subconciously clued the viewer that "this isn't real". Lucas realised that this shortcoming had to be overcome and hense went to great pains to employ this technology in the original Star Wars. The results speak for themeselves.

    Amazing then how he completely abandoned thes principle when making the prequel movies. The element that sinks this movie is not the directing, or the story or Hayden Christiansen but is in fact the big budget bangs and whistles that populate these prequels from start to finish. Now don't get me wrong, I like a good CGI sequence as much as the next guy. The problem is no matter how good the CGI looks in the prequels it simply DOES NOT LOOK REAL and does not match anything involving real actors in real or studio locations. It's like the effects industry had forgotten it's accomplishments and decided to step back 30 years in time all for the sake of playing with a new toy. Most other movies can get away with these shortcomings becasue they have no particular basis for compatison but when you have to live up to the relatively realistic look of the original SW the shortcomings of CGI in the prequels are mercilessly exposed.

    The irony of it all is that they price we pay for technical progress is that 30 years from now the Original 3 movies are still going to hold up well and the prequels are going to be the ones that suffer visually as better ways of matching CGI to real elements make Lucas's efforts of 1999-2005 merely quaint.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,474 ✭✭✭jim o doom


    I don't know how exactly to describe it, but the word that comes to mind when I think of the look of these films is 'glossy'. Maybe it's just me but the constant bad cgi completely kills any immersion.

    Nail on the head man, nail on the head. The crappy CGI was a major issue in all of them - it was like watching the trailer for any game, badly done CG - the toy ships in the originals were more convincing.. especially the weird creatures done in CGI instead of good costuming. looked pathetic.
    I enjoyed the lightsaber battles in all of them, and of the prequels I only really enjoyed the 3rd one.. but that was it. I mean for me "ARISE LORD VADER" *shivers down spine* and then we have the originals.. (which ruled)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭evil-monkey


    Pigman II wrote: »
    The problem is no matter how good the CGI looks in the prequels it simply DOES NOT LOOK REAL and does not match anything involving real actors in real or studio locations.

    I disagree. I think this is the key point. I thought the CGI was perfect - as real as anything I've seen. Even the difference between the puppet version of Yoda in EP I, and the full CGI version thereafter is immense!!

    Before CGI: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Pines/4928/tpm-yoda4.jpg

    After CGI: http://www.the-planets.com/star-biography/yoda_biography_3.jpg


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,921 ✭✭✭✭Pigman II


    I was referring more in particular to the enviornments in the prequels than to characters. For the original trilogy if they wanted a forest world or a snow enviornment they went to real world locations. For the prequels they would just CG up the necessary landscapes and I think this is unfortunate because anyone can tell that what they are looking at is not real.

    If you look a Geonosis or Kaimeno or even the odd bit of Tatooine in Ep2 it simply looks fake (mainly because it is) and there can be no denying this. Even the shots of interiors (eg Jedi temple) are no match for a set made of wood and paint with the right light on it (in terms of realism anyway if not scale). I'll admit now the environments had improved in Ep3 but they were still fake looking.

    The reason we don't have CGI human characters in "real world" movies (as opposed to "fake world stuff like Polar Express or Final Fantasy) yet is that the human eye can detect instantly that there is something wrong. To a lesser extent this ability also exists in us for examining landscapes so I think perhaps directors should use it more sparingly until it's is good enough to trick us.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭evil-monkey


    Pigman II wrote: »
    I was referring more in particular to the enviornments in the prequels than to characters. For the original trilogy if they wanted a forest world or a snow enviornment they went to real world locations. For the prequels they would just CG up the necessary landscapes and I think this is unfortunate because anyone can tell that what they are looking at is not real.

    Where exactly were they going to find an underwater city or a volcanic planet?? Scenes on Tattooine etc were filmed in proper locations, but where this was impossible, CGI was used, and to great effect imho...
    Pigman II wrote: »
    If you look a Geonosis or Kaimeno or even the odd bit of Tatooine in Ep2 it simply looks fake (mainly because it is) and there can be no denying this. Even the shots of interiors (eg Jedi temple) are no match for a set made of wood and paint with the right light on it (in terms of realism anyway if not scale). I'll admit now the environments had improved in Ep3 but they were still fake looking.

    Were we watching the same films?? :p
    Pigman II wrote: »
    I think perhaps directors should use it more sparingly until it's is good enough to trick us.

    I don't think the likes of some of the environments in Star Wars will ever look completely real through CGI, not for a long time yet anyway, and Georgie is getting on a bit. But overall, I thought the CGI was fine. Certainly a lot better than most films out there these days...

    Looks like we're just going to have to agree to disagree on the whole CGI affair...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,449 ✭✭✭Call Me Jimmy


    Well it seems that you must be judging it on the video-game scale of reality because I don't even think it's arguable that it is convincing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,488 ✭✭✭Goodshape


    I disagree. I think this is the key point. I thought the CGI was perfect - as real as anything I've seen. Even the difference between the puppet version of Yoda in EP I, and the full CGI version thereafter is immense!!

    Before CGI: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Pines/4928/tpm-yoda4.jpg

    After CGI: http://www.the-planets.com/star-biography/yoda_biography_3.jpg
    HAVE to disagree there. First one looks much better.

    Neither look really real but at least the puppet looks like a physical 'thing'. The the second image (and Yoda throughout Ep2 and 3) looks like a computer render. The lighting, textures, his hair, his movement... all look like CGI to me.

    At least with a puppet you can make-believe that maybe it's just the way this creature moves. With CGI (and see also the ET 'Special Edition' for examples of this) they seem compelled to go overboard with movement and expression that just doesn't seem to suit the characters. They're not only animated (literally), they're too animated.

    I'd fully agree with others that technology and experience simply couldn't match the ambition of the prequils.


    But I also thought the story, script, acting and 'feel' to the films was pure muck. I'm honestly not sure I would sit through any of the prequils again if they were put on in front of me.


    On the plus side, they have allowed me to enjoy the original trilogy in a new light. Knowing more of the history of the characters (however badly portraid) gives some extra gravitas to a few pivotal scenes. Knowing Darth Vader was once an annoying, whiney, easily led, insolent little ****e helps to highlight the characters inner turmoil somewhat. He was never evil, just an idiot. Poor guy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭evil-monkey


    So people think the CGI of the prequils was poor, but that the "era sure it's only the destruction of a planet" attitude given to Alderaan was ok. That it was acceptbale that the final meeting of Obi-Wan and Darth Vader was as dramatic as Cornflakes, and that Kermit the Frog was a main character??

    I'm not saying that the CGI was the best of all time, but it was pretty damn good in my book, and those claiming it was at the par of video games should really point me in the direction of what console they are playing on...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,449 ✭✭✭Call Me Jimmy


    Yea. They had charm.

    As the chap said, I obviously knew that yoda the puppet wasn't a real alien hired to play him. But watching the old yoda was easier because it was physically there and it didn't take me out of the story. Not that the prequels even had a story to take me out of but the environments, the look, the feel... CGI is nowhere near good enough to even think about using it as they did in the prequels without it ruining everything basically.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,093 ✭✭✭✭chopperbyrne


    I thoroughly enjoyed all three prequel movies.

    Jar Jar is far less annoying than the Ewoks (Although Jedi is still my favourite of all six).

    Phantom Menace is excellent.

    Attack of the Clones is a good middle part and Revenge of the Sith is very good and wraps things up nicely.

    Most of the action scenes are better, the effects are superb and the story is no better or worse than the original trilogy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭evil-monkey


    I thoroughly enjoyed all three prequel movies.

    Jar Jar is far less annoying than the Ewoks (Although Jedi is still my favourite of all six).

    Phantom Menace is excellent.

    Attack of the Clones is a good middle part and Revenge of the Sith is very good and wraps things up nicely.

    Most of the action scenes are better, the effects are superb and the story is no better or worse than the original trilogy.

    phew. For a second there I thought I was flying solo... :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,355 ✭✭✭dyl10


    I think as stand alone sci fi films, they're not all that bad, but for Starwars, they are atrocious


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭evil-monkey


    dyl10 wrote: »
    I think as stand alone sci fi films, they're not all that bad, but for Starwars, they are atrocious

    Which is my point. When it comes down to it - why were the originals all that better when you consider all the key moments were done so poorly?? Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Star Wars, but I just don't see why people consider there to be such a void between the two sets of films. Maybe in the 70s the destruction of Alderaan scene was impressive, I'm far too young to know :p, but looking at it now you have to think - eh, maybe a bigger deal could have been made of it. Could Leia have maybe been even a little upset?? etc etc


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,355 ✭✭✭dyl10


    Well, from my own point of view, I'm not a huge fan of CGI.
    I prefer the costume effect over the computerized alien.

    For me, there is no Sci fi combat scene of higher quality than the attack of Hoth at the beginning of episode 5.
    It's intense, looks great and manages to capture an unrivaled sci fi/military feel.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,275 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    the prequels are fantastic. they have the same acting, same writing, same quality boundary pushing technical achievements as the the originals.

    I love them both. they match perfectly.

    you want to be picky. ok. what is different about the prequels and the the originals?

    the lightsabre fights. which would mean the new trilogy wins.

    regards.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 704 ✭✭✭Lobelia Overhill


    I like the prequels, I didn't like Jar Jar, but then I'm not 5 years old ...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,275 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    My only complaint in regards to JarJar is that he had too much screen time.

    Screen time that should have been given to Artoo and Threepio.

    But JarJar was there to show off the technology - imagine though if Lucas had used a Gungan warrior like Roos Tarpels instead. He could have been the prequels' Chewbacca.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 172 ✭✭Evilsbane


    I think the acting of the love story seemed wooden in Ep II for a reason - Anakin wasn't actually in love. He loved the idea of being in love with someone, but wasn't in love with Padmé. He made the mistake that most teenagers make: he swooned over the first reasonably attractive member of the opposite sex to show him attention. This is why he made the clunky speeches about scars and crap: he reckoned 'this is what people in love are SUPPOSED to say'. He's trying to fit into a world that he feels he doesn't belong in. He doesn't feel accepted as a Jedi, he knows something's not quite right; but when he tries to have feelings like normal people have it feels forced as well. It's his ultimate failing, the one that Yoda and Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan and Padmé all warn him about: he focuses on the negative. Qui-Gon tells him that his focus determines his reality, Obi-Wan tells him that he has to be careful not to let perceived sleights like Padmé barely remembering him bother him, Yoda tells him not to worry about someone dying, since death is a natural part of life and must be faced sooner or later, and Padmé tells him that he puts himself under too much pressure to solve everyone's problems. His focusing on the feeling that his life is spiralling out of control blinds him to the fact that if he doesn't have control, he should just trust that everything will turn out OK. Worrying never solved problems.

    In Eps IV-VI, anytime something goes wrong or he feels insulted he needs to strangle someone. Luke is even tempted by this tendency in Ep VI - Sidious assures him that if he does take the necessary action to save his friends, they will all die. Instead of killing a pathetic old man and a cripple to save his friends, Luke acquiesces to fate and throws away his lightsaber. He realises that he can't solve everyone's problems on his own and decides to have faith that his friends can take care of themselves without needing him to become a murderer.

    It's like Obama's inaugural speech: 'We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals'. The prequel trilogy illustrates this. Even the Jedi Order makes the mistake: Mace Windu clearly states the Jedi are meant to be keepers of the peace and not soldiers. By participating in the war because of their fear of losing the Republic, they doom themselves due to the decimation of their ranks. What's worse, they compromise on their ideals. Even Mace Windu is compromised when he attempts to execute the unarmed Chancellor.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,663 ✭✭✭evil-monkey


    My only complaint in regards to JarJar is that he had too much screen time.
    I like the prequels, I didn't like Jar Jar, but then I'm not 5 years old ...

    The thing about Jar Jar is that he makes for a good toy, and a toy that a lot of kids want. Star Wars merchandise is a big earner - and not everything can be targeted at us adult geeks ;)
    Evilsbane wrote: »
    I think the acting of the love story seemed wooden in Ep II for a reason - Anakin wasn't actually in love. He loved the idea of being in love with someone, but wasn't in love with Padmé. He made the mistake that most teenagers make: he swooned over the first reasonably attractive member of the opposite sex to show him attention. This is why he made the clunky speeches about scars and crap: he reckoned 'this is what people in love are SUPPOSED to say'. He's trying to fit into a world that he feels he doesn't belong in. He doesn't feel accepted as a Jedi, he knows something's not quite right; but when he tries to have feelings like normal people have it feels forced as well. It's his ultimate failing, the one that Yoda and Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan and Padmé all warn him about: he focuses on the negative. Qui-Gon tells him that his focus determines his reality, Obi-Wan tells him that he has to be careful not to let perceived sleights like Padmé barely remembering him bother him, Yoda tells him not to worry about someone dying, since death is a natural part of life and must be faced sooner or later, and Padmé tells him that he puts himself under too much pressure to solve everyone's problems. His focusing on the feeling that his life is spiralling out of control blinds him to the fact that if he doesn't have control, he should just trust that everything will turn out OK. Worrying never solved problems.

    In Eps IV-VI, anytime something goes wrong or he feels insulted he needs to strangle someone. Luke is even tempted by this tendency in Ep VI - Sidious assures him that if he does take the necessary action to save his friends, they will all die. Instead of killing a pathetic old man and a cripple to save his friends, Luke acquiesces to fate and throws away his lightsaber. He realises that he can't solve everyone's problems on his own and decides to have faith that his friends can take care of themselves without needing him to become a murderer.

    It's like Obama's inaugural speech: 'We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals'. The prequel trilogy illustrates this. Even the Jedi Order makes the mistake: Mace Windu clearly states the Jedi are meant to be keepers of the peace and not soldiers. By participating in the war because of their fear of losing the Republic, they doom themselves due to the decimation of their ranks. What's worse, they compromise on their ideals. Even Mace Windu is compromised when he attempts to execute the unarmed Chancellor.

    Nice post man. And totally agree with most points. But is it a bit out of place in this thread discussing whether or not the prequels were crap?? ;)

    The point you raise about the Jedi Order making the mistake of going along with the war. That's something I'd be very interested in having a chat about if you want to get a thread going on it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 172 ✭✭Evilsbane


    Nice post man. And totally agree with most points. But is it a bit out of place in this thread discussing whether or not the prequels were crap?? ;)
    I originally just meant to explain why the love story seemed so forced - because Anakin made it that way, not knowing how normal people are supposed to behave in that situation. Then I decided to say that the prequels had a good message about not letting your fears and anxieties control your decisions and how it tied into the original trilogy pretty well in that respect.
    The point you raise about the Jedi Order making the mistake of going along with the war. That's something I'd be very interested in having a chat about if you want to get a thread going on it.
    Sure!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 340 ✭✭irishthump


    Which is my point. When it comes down to it - why were the originals all that better when you consider all the key moments were done so poorly??

    WHAT?!!!!

    Could you please tell me what was so poor about ANY moment in the original trilogy?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,355 ✭✭✭dyl10


    irishthump wrote: »
    WHAT?!!!!

    Could you please tell me what was so poor about ANY moment in the original trilogy?

    +1

    There's something special about the original trilogy, there's nothing special about the prequels.

    For people saying that the battle scenes are better in the episodes 1-3, I can't agree. The attack on Hoth at the beginning of the ESB, is one of the best battle scenes I've seen to date


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 340 ✭✭irishthump


    dyl10 wrote: »
    +1

    There's something special about the original trilogy, there's nothing special about the prequels.

    For people saying that the battle scenes are better in the episodes 1-3, I can't agree. The attack on Hoth at the beginning of the ESB, is one of the best battle scenes I've seen to date

    I have to agree. I think it is extremely short sighted to judge any film on it's special effects. Look at the original King Kong. Yes, it looks dated as hell, but it's still consistantly voted the greatest monster movie ever and is head and shoulders above the remakes.

    I only watched ROTJ last week. It's by far the "weakest" of the OT, but right from the start there's a "buzz" about the whole movie. Like you just know it's building to something huge.

    As good as the prequels are and as much as I enjoyed them, this just did'nt haoppen with any of them. Well, not nearly as much anyway.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 172 ✭✭Evilsbane


    dyl10 wrote: »
    There's something special about the original trilogy, there's nothing special about the prequels.
    Duel of the Fates. Anakin getting burned alive. Obi-Wan fights Jango on Kamino. "I want to go home and re-think my life". The Wizard's Battle (Dooku and Yoda duelling with the Force: they should have focused on this and never given Yoda a lightsaber because it looked terrible whenever someone had to pretend they were duelling a CGI character).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 340 ✭✭irishthump


    An on a side note, I would also say that the special editions of the prequels were something we just did'nt need to see.
    Granted, the special effects were better in ANH, but the I don't think the film benefitted from it one bit. It was fine the way it was. And as for putting Hayden Christensen in the end of ROTJ... that was just wrong!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,275 ✭✭✭Spon Farmer


    is that bandwagon still going?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 495 ✭✭dimejinky99


    Interstingly enough Irish actress Bronagh Gallagher has the first or second speaking part in Episode I.

    The weight of expectation was always going to kill any momentum these movies had and Phantom Menace didn't help it's own cause by being shoddy and over baked. However, Attack of the Clones? how could you not love it. The opening battle is one of the finest scenes in all Star Wars and really it doesn't let up. Classic. Digital Yoda was a HUGE let down as was the digitally clean..pretty much everything, I like the used future look better. The clone army just look like digital stick men.

    Cant remember the exact number but i think there are something like 6 different movie references in AOTC, including E.T.(Yoda's leaving Kasshyyk-the music may even be from E.T.s score), Tarzan(wookie in the battle scene on Kasshyyk doing tarzan's yodle), Frankenstein(the Vader birth moment, while brilliant and spooky, is ruined for me by the NOOO!) and Nosferatu(the Emperors reveal after he's been burned with the uplighting and his hands)

    I count them episode 3 onwards. You almost don't have to see episodes I or II

    Love Episode III though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,519 ✭✭✭Rawr


    Cant remember the exact number but i think there are something like 6 different movie references in AOTC, including E.T.(Yoda's leaving Kasshyyk-the music may even be from E.T.s score), Tarzan(wookie in the battle scene on Kasshyyk doing tarzan's yodle), Frankenstein(the Vader birth moment, while brilliant and spooky, is ruined for me by the NOOO!) and Nosferatu(the Emperors reveal after he's been burned with the uplighting and his hands)

    Will agree with most of your points, but all of the scenes you outline above are actually from Episode III, not AOTC (Attack of the Clones).
    The Tarzan hollar, is in itself a reference to the Tarzan hollar that Chewie uses in Ep VI


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