GPs

2Scoops

A friend of mine is applying for the GP scheme. I never really explored this route - do any GPs who successfully made the scheme have ideas on desired qualities or other good tips?

Thanks :pac:

redelephant

http://www.icgp.ie/go/become_a_gp/application_form

Lots of info on the icgp website above. What stage are you at?
Your application form - solid accademic acheivements, undergrad and postgrad gp experience/placements etc
Once you get into the interview - good interview skills, a genuine interest in the profession and a good knowledge of the scheme you are interviewing for eg the SHO rotations, specialities in the different hospitals on the scheme should help.
Not sure if this is the kind of info you are looking for?

2Scoops

I'm thinking more along the lines of the BS questions on the application, like 'why you want to be a GP' etc. Or clever things people have used in the past to make their application stand out.

ergo

here's some of my advice based on a lot of friends of mine who have applied in recent years (successfully and unsuccessfully)

keep in mind that it is ultra competitive, 3 people apply for each available place, just getting an interview can be very difficult, it's no longer the case that you will be guaranteed an interview for your 1st choice scheme

eg. some of the Dublin schemes can get 60 plus applications and will only interview maybe 24 or 25 people max and will only look at 1st preference applicants

look carefully at the 2nd preference, if your friend is looking at Dublin as 1st choice consider the south east or north east schemes as 2nd place as they have, in previous years, considered and interviewed some people who listed them as 2nd preference

in terms of the application, dont' leave it 'til the day before, it takes a long time.
Fill all the spaces, pad out the "extra interests" section if that's still on it


as for the painful personal statement of "Why I choose GP as a career" well, if it's sufficiently cringe-worthy that you can't read it out loud without vomiting then it's probably ticking all the correct boxes!
it helps a lot if you can get hold of a previous applicant's statement to give you an idea (not to *cough* copy of course...)


the statement of why you choose that particular scheme important too, research the scheme, say you've spoken with trainees and it's the best etc

as important as all the above is, statistically speaking, (well at least for 2 of the 3 Dublin schemes), if your mum or dad's a GP your chances of being successful increase dramatically. This is a fact (NOT FOR ALL SCHEMES).

Also try to hide any evidence of ever having any notion of being anything other than a GP since the moment you were conceived

also, the deadline is tonight but consider the UK as a back up plan (60 places in Northern Ireland) - the selection process is a bit more transparent and applying doesn't take long but need to register online with the GMC before applying, more info here http://www.gprecruitment.org.uk/

2Scoops

ergo wrote: »

*snip*

Useful, thanks!

AmcD

Sorry I posted late and missed your deadline, but my long-winded reply kept automatically logging me out
I finished a Dublin scheme a few years ago. In my last year I was involved in shortlisting people for interviews.

Basically this is what we looked for on the application form:
1.A first-choice preference for the scheme
2.An honours medical degree
3.Actual evidence of wanting to do general practice- e.g. doing electives with GP. Undergraduate experience does not count because everybody was forced to do them.
4. Interesting extras on the CV that show a life outside medicine and give something to talk about at the interview- but not "cinema and reading"

When I helped with shortlisting there were one or two doctor offspring applying, but I can honestly say that this wasn't an advantage. The main disadvantage to getting interviewed would be a surgical career. It would probably work the other way round too. I don't think I would get very far in the surgical SPR interview process.

If you actually get to interview, your chances are dramatically improved of getting a place. The main thing is to be able to discuss your CV at length and also to be able to give informed opinions on medical issues/politics in the media. When I was applying for schemes I tragically owned a copy of the primary health care strategy.

2Scoops

The UK deadline passed but the ROI one is this Friday. Thanks for the info!

Svalbard

AmcD wrote: »

Sorry I posted late and missed your deadline, but my long-winded reply kept automatically logging me out
I finished a Dublin scheme a few years ago. In my last year I was involved in shortlisting people for interviews.

Basically this is what we looked for on the application form:
1.A first-choice preference for the scheme
2.An honours medical degree
3.Actual evidence of wanting to do general practice- e.g. doing electives with GP. Undergraduate experience does not count because everybody was forced to do them.
4. Interesting extras on the CV that show a life outside medicine and give something to talk about at the interview- but not "cinema and reading"

When I helped with shortlisting there were one or two doctor offspring applying, but I can honestly say that this wasn't an advantage. The main disadvantage to getting interviewed would be a surgical career. It would probably work the other way round too. I don't think I would get very far in the surgical SPR interview process.

If you actually get to interview, your chances are dramatically improved of getting a place. The main thing is to be able to discuss your CV at length and also to be able to give informed opinions on medical issues/politics in the media. When I was applying for schemes I tragically owned a copy of the primary health care strategy.

Interesting. So what are someones chances of getting on a GP scheme if they failed final med and therefore have a pass degree, in your opinion?

sillymoo

AmcD wrote: »

3.Actual evidence of wanting to do general practice- e.g. doing electives with GP. Undergraduate experience does not count because everybody was forced to do them.

When can you do electives with GP if not in undergrad?

RobFowl

sillymoo wrote: »

When can you do electives with GP if not in undergrad?

During the intern year !

AmcD

In response to both questions:
1. Being brutally honest, if you don't have an honours degree and it took you more than six years to finish medical school, you would want to have a CV showing lots of well-rounded interests and GP electives. There are so many applicants for the scheme, that they can afford to select only people with honours degrees.

2. Gp electives can be done in intern year as a previous poster mentioned, or as an SHO if you don't get on the scheme straight away. I did a few days with a doctor on Aran Island and also did a few sit-in sessions with a GP on the northside. You show obvious dedication by actually using up holidays to do this.

I got onto the scheme after doing a year as an SHO. As it turns out, I think this was an advantage. The medical jobs you do as an intern are all about taking bloods and ordering xrays. SHOs doing call in A+E have a much more responsible job and learn a lot more. This is a good idea as you might only do four or six months of medicine during a GP scheme. While working as a GP you will constantly have to deal with common medical conditions and have to know when it is appropriate to refer.

sillymoo

AmcD wrote: »

2. Gp electives can be done in intern year as a previous poster mentioned, or as an SHO if you don't get on the scheme straight away. I did a few days with a doctor on Aran Island and also did a few sit-in sessions with a GP on the northside. You show obvious dedication by actually using up holidays to do this.

Cheers im an undergrad and dont really know yet how it works in the big bad world

RANIA

how would a background in psychiatry be viewed-positive/negative(mrcpsych)?

Narkius Maximus

AmcD wrote: »

When I helped with shortlisting there were one or two doctor offspring applying, but I can honestly say that this wasn't an advantage. The main disadvantage to getting interviewed would be a surgical career. It would probably work the other way round too. I don't think I would get very far in the surgical SPR interview process.

Dunno about that! Plenty of my mates (mostly all blokes) who I did my surgical BST have gotten on GP schemes over the past couple of years. Think it's the bloke factor though-being surgically trained doesn't seem to have been detimental

ergo

AmcD wrote: »

When I helped with shortlisting there were one or two doctor offspring applying, but I can honestly say that this wasn't an advantage. The main disadvantage to getting interviewed would be a surgical career. It would probably work the other way round too. I don't think I would get very far in the surgical SPR interview process.

If you actually get to interview, your chances are dramatically improved of getting a place. The main thing is to be able to discuss your CV at length and also to be able to give informed opinions on medical issues/politics in the media. When I was applying for schemes I tragically owned a copy of the primary health care strategy.

sorry, I know you wrote this nearly a year ago but only saw your reply to my reply now

it is true that all the schemes do have or appear to have objective marking criteria for the interviews etc

the fact that a lot of successful candidates a few years back were the offspring of GP's could well be down to the fact that this fact made them better prepared for the interview and selection process and not being just pure nepotism...

my "evidence" is purely anecdotal admittedly but on different intakes in the last 5 years I know of schemes (where friends of mine were in the intake) where eg 8-9 out of 12 or 6-7 out of 9 successful candidates were the children of GP's - that was a fact - coincidental or not

personally I think it is ridiculous to be selecting GP's based on interview/personal statement and the UK selection process is miles ahead and definitely more likely to pick better future GP's (eg. it includes a mock consultation with an actor as a patient as part of the selection process) but we are a million miles away from that here

btw I heard that last year UCD had 100 first choice applicants for its 9 places - would need to confirm that as I can't remember who told me that one - they definitely had 60 a year or 2 before that - makes the personal statement etc all the more important

to svalbard, I know of only one scheme where an honours degree in medicine was important or considered semi-essential - it's more about the other stuff - and that's the way it should be. I'm sure the form could be filled in without it being too obvious that final med was failed...possibly

panda100

Svalbard wrote: »

Interesting. So what are someones chances of getting on a GP scheme if they failed final med and therefore have a pass degree, in your opinion?

From what I've seen it doesn't seem to be that important. My brother is on the Limerick scheme at the moment and my sister finished it about 4 years ago. Both of them would have had just a pass medicine degree.

I imagine that everyone applying has pretty much the same CV, so you have to do something that will make you stand out from the rest. My brother is an accomplished rugby and football player so I say this helped him a lot. Before the interview I helped him get article's published in the IMN along with the Irish Times which really stood out on his CV.
I think you have to do an audit? I would do this with the view of getting it published in as many medical publications as you can.

My sister was quite involved with The Special Olympics at the time and the interviewers loved this about her as it was something fresh and different.
As long as you have extracurricular activities then I dont think an honours degree would matter that much.

AmcD

panda100 wrote: »

My sister was quite involved with The Special Olympics at the time and the interviewers loved this about her as it was something fresh and different.
As long as you have extracurricular activities then I dont think an honours degree would matter that much.

I would agree that any interesting extracurricular activities would be very helpful in applying for the schemes, especially if done to a high level. I remember reading through loads of CVs. They were all extremely similar. Anybody with good research or obvious dedicated outside interests, was ear-marked.
I know my remark about needing honours degrees wasn't popular, but unfortunately I think most schemes can afford to be fussy with such a volume of applicants. This is were all the extras on CVs are important.

RobFowl

AmcD wrote: »

I would agree that any interesting extracurricular activities would be very helpful in applying for the schemes, especially if done to a high level. I remember reading through loads of CVs. They were all extremely similar. Anybody with good research or obvious dedicated outside interests, was ear-marked.
I know my remark about needing honours degrees wasn't popular, but unfortunately I think most schemes can afford to be fussy with such a volume of applicants. This is were all the extras on CVs are important.

I'm dating my self here but only 10-12 out of 100 in my class or so got an honours degree when I qualified. Are there more honours degrees being given out now?

AmcD

RobFowl wrote: »

I'm dating my self here but only 10-12 out of 100 in my class or so got an honours degree when I qualified. Are there more honours degrees being given out now?

Purely from reading CVs from graduates of all medical schools, that were applying- Maybe 60% had honours degrees (from what I remember). I don't think this reflects the actual percentages of honours degrees awarded by all the colleges. Perhaps the GP schemes were just attracting high-flying candidates?

Honours degree or not, there is still a lot to be said for extra-curricular activities. Also I should highlight the issue of showing an interest in general practice: electives, research etc.

I failed to get on a GP scheme the first time round. Maybe my passing interest in aerobics classes just didn't do it for them.