Bray - interesting way to name places!

dazzerb

I know of no other town that refers to a big and little part, e.g. Big Bray and Little Bray. Also what is the deal with "The Vevay", why not just "Vevay", why is there a "The" and where does the name come from. The other odd one is "Big Sugar loaf" and "Little Sugar loaf". Does Little Sugar loaf not have its own proper name? What is a "Sugar Loaf" anyway? Is it a cake or something?

Just some interesting observations. I am from Bray and I have asked many people over the years and nobody knows!!

LEIN

You should get some answers here. If not local library for some history books.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bray

Alun

A sugar loaf used to be the traditional form in which sugar was once sold and used for centuries until the process for making granulated sugar was invented. It was literally one big lump of sugar, in the shape of a tall cone (which was the shape of the mould it was made in) about a foot or so high , and when sugar was needed it was either scraped off or cut off in chunks using a special device looking a bit like a pair of shears. If you visit some of the better preserved stately homes on England where they've restored the old kitchen you'll often see one (usually a fake!) together with it's shears.

I assume the name of the Sugarloaf mountain comes from it's conical appearance mimicking that of a sugar loaf, plus you also have the crumbly rock at the top (fluorspar?) that might be thought of as looking a bit like sugar when the light hits it.

The Little Sugarloaf doesn't look that much like it's bigger relative, shape wise, to my mind, so I'm not sure why it's called that. Incidentally there's another Sugarloaf over in West Wicklow that looks even less like a sugar loaf than that, so who knows?

As far as I know Little Bray is so named because it's built on lower lying ground by the river as opposed to Big Bray which was built on higher ground. It might also have been due to the different natures of the two areas, with Big Bray being where all the "posh" big Edwardian houses were built, as opposed to Little Bray where the "common people" lived.

As for The Vevay (or the vivvy as it appears to be pronounced) or I've no idea.

John Mason

As far am i knew the correct name for the sugar loaves was Giltsper (well thats what we were thought in school)

Cionnfhaolaidh

The other odd one is "Big Sugar loaf" and "Little Sugar loaf". Does Little Sugar loaf not have its own proper name?

The native Irish name for both mountains is Ciocha Cualann (Breasts of Cuala). Cuala is an ancient godess of Ireland and the name was used to refer the mountain range between the Liffey and Arklow.

The Old Bray Road / Dublin Road is Slí Cualann in Irish (way of Cuala) - this is also the Irish name for the Wicklow Way and is a very ancient way indeed. Random fact: bóthar (road in Irish) literally means Cow Pass.

Bray is Brí Chualann (rise or brae of Cuala).

The Little Sugar Loaf´s proper English name is Giltspur.

"The name Giltspur, which originally refers to a townland on the northern slopes, is explained by a transaction in the late 12th century, whereby Dermod Mac Giollamocholmog granted one carucate of land in Kilruddery to Richard de Felda for a pair of gilt spurs, to be presented to him and his heirs each year at Michelmas [PNCW]. Giltspur Mountain is thus a rare example of an English language name which is so old that it has been replaced by another, Little Sugar Loaf."

Supercell

Super post Cionnfhaolaidh, though living near Bray my entire life I'm sorry to admit I didn't know ANY of that before now!

loyatemu

Cionnfhaolaidh wrote: »

The native Irish name for both mountains is Ciocha Cualann (Breasts of Cuala). Cuala is an ancient godess of Ireland and the name was used to refer the mountain range between the Liffey and Arklow.

interesting - the other name for Kindlestown Hill (behind Greystones) is "Coolagad".

the Little SugarLoaf does actually look quite "sugarloafy" if you approach it from the south (around Kindlestown Woods).

Cionnfhaolaidh

loyatemu wrote: »

the other name for Kindlestown Hill (behind Greystones) is "Coolagad".

I'm not sure that Coolagad has anything to do with the Goddess Cuala as the "cool" bit would be at the end of the placename. eg, Breecoolen (Brí Chulainn), Sleecoolen (Slí Chulainn), Cockacoolen (Ciocha Cualann).

The ealierst reference I can find is from 1838: Coolagad "Cúil a' ghaid", meaning 'corner or angle of the gad or withe' - withe being "A tough supple twig, especially of willow, used for binding things together".

Yet, the modern Irish translation of Coolagad is "Baile Fearainn", which is vague as it simply means Townland. Who knows.

Rambling here, but it's one of my interests.

dazzerb

Cionnfhaolaidh - great post and all so interesting. I will never look at the two sugarloafs the same way again!

So anyone know what the "The Vevay" is all about?

nellybelly

Always thought it might have something to do with Vevey, Switzerland (the home of Nestlé and Le Corbusier), given that anglicising the french word would result in something like "vivvay"... but it does seem a bit 'grand' for a road in Bray!