Burst water pipe under hallway concrete floor

Kashkai

As the title stated, I noticed that the laminate floor in my hallway had a couple of swellings in it and straight away I knew I was in trouble. I took off the skirting boards and lifted the edge plank and put my hand underneath and lo and behold, there was a film of water. I took up all the boards (and I'd just finished laying the last of the floors in the bedroom last week and thought I was finally finished with floor laying for a few years at least:mad:) and found that about 1/3 of the hallway floor was wet with the wettest part outside the hot press. Now obviously, I've got a pipe leaking somewhere in the general area and so the question is, how expensive is this going to be to fix. I know it'll mean kango hammering the floor to get at the pipe but will the actual leak to easy to find. To me I think I've isolated the general area as I've now dried the surrounding floor where the water had seeped and I'm left with one wet patch or could the water be channeling in from somewhere else?

Oh and would I be better off claiming on the house insurance and I'll have to replace the wood floor as well as a lot of the planks were water damaged?

holdfast

Get someone in with a thermal image camera and use it to find the leak while their there get them to ahve a look at the house they will probably charge you the same price anyway.

Kashkai

Never heard of this method of finding leaks. Would a thermal imaging camera find the leak if its from the cold water supply? Any recommendations for someone with this equipment btw?

One of the UFH manufacturers suggest, first dry the floor as much as possible then turn on the water and see where the damp patch starts to form.

Fortunately, I never had any leaks, but was prepaired just in case!

10-10-20

Yes, a thermal imaging camera may pick up a cold pipe. Heat the house beforehand and then run the taps whne the camera is there. Do you have a layout diagram of the floor structure & pipe location to reference?

I found a leaking pipe just by drying the area alone. I was then able to chisel into the pipe insulation within 3 inches of the leak.

Home4Life

I wondered about this also,
as I am about to bury service pipes under concrete,
and then UH pipes under concrete screed.

If a leak does occur, presumably, it is a major job to uproot the concrete
and excavate?

AMIIAM

Only fools bury waterpipes underneath concrete.

Scober11

By the time you waste time and money getting in cameras you'll have broke up the floor and fixed the pipe, you already have a good idea where the leak is.

AMIIAM

AMIIAM wrote: »

Only fools bury waterpipes underneath concrete.

You don't have UFH so!

Kashkai

AMIIAM wrote: »

Only fools bury waterpipes underneath concrete.

And where by chance do they go then?????

Do I put in a cavity under the floor to run the pipes and thus provide a home for the mice and rats that live in Prosperous?

Do I run them in the walls like my last house where they too burst and resulted in the walls getting ripped out to fix them and a sh1te job of reinstating them with walls left as even as the Dublin Mountains. At least a floor can be covered over again to hide any poor re-instatement job.

Water pipes burst at some point whether its due to poor workmanship (as in my case - plumber was a useless sh1te), corrosion or broken seals. Yes it would be great to have easy access to them but aside from putting in dedicated channels in the floor, or running them above ground, I don't see how they can be easily got at.

And finally, if you have nothing useful to offer, then why bother posting apart from wanting to be a troll.

10-10-20

AMIIAM wrote: »

Only fools bury waterpipes underneath concrete.

Only fools tell fools that they don't bury pipes under concrete.

I suppose you run yours along the walls and box them in with pretty coving?
Or do you run them down from the attic and risk ruining the ceiling and walls when they leak?

Come on - give us a clue!

AMIIAM

It's really very simple. Any reputable plomber would resist burying hot/cold waterpipes in mass concrete. What about unavoidable expansion and contraction for starters? The way qualified TRADESMEN get round this problem is to provide channels in the concrete floor for heating pipes to be installed at a later date. Chances are greater that the qualified plumber would leave no leaks anyway.

Scober11

Judging by past threads Dave wasn't to good at spotting good from bad tradesmen.

ctrl-alt-delete

Bit of a disaster alright,

What are these people on suggesting using thermal imaging to find the pipe?

you reckon you have a general idea where it is anyway, so break out the floor and it will be easily sourced then,

As for where to put pipes, there is continued research and development into "wireless water", kind of working on the clouds and rain system, but sure you've already done it now.

Scober11

In cold weather would that be like ICE broadband?

AMIIAM

Much easier to have instalation done properly by "time served " tradesmen,though very few left nowadays. Job done once and correctly. Work described above sounds like a chancers effort.

Any luck in finding the leak Dave?

Out of curiousity, how many pipes do you have going under that part of the floor, if only one it may be easier just to abandon it and run another route (if possible)

AMIIAM

AMIIAM wrote: »

Much easier to have instalation done properly by "time served " tradesmen,though very few left nowadays. Job done once and correctly. Work described above sounds like a chancers effort.

Like this you mean!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPSMBDQ5XwU

PS ignore the Polish comments.

AMIIAM

LOL Dolanbaker. A common sight on Irish building sites. I can assure you the native "plumbers " can easily match above, and they have no shame. Ireland, the cowboy island.

Slig

AMIIAM wrote: »

LOL Dolanbaker. A common sight on Irish building sites. I can assure you the native "plumbers " can easily match above, and they have no shame. Ireland, the cowboy island.

Although I dont like your attitude I have to agree with you. The sheer carelessness of most trades carried out in buildings over the last couple of years is shocking to say the least.
I know there are people out there that really take pride in their work but they are being undercut in price by others that know they can do a shockingly bad job and then just move onto the next one.

Home4Life

that video is truly horrific.
As someone getting my house refurbished at the moment
its just grotesque. Is it a windup of some sort?

Kashkai

Scober11 wrote: »

Judging by past threads Dave wasn't to good at spotting good from bad tradesmen.

Au contraire mon capitan, it was because I was good at spotting bad workmanship that I managed to call a halt to a bad build, get an excellent engineer on the job and brought the builder and his subbies to heel.

Things got so farcical on my build that I was down to standing over "tradesmen" telling them when they had dug the foundations too short, that they were building walls in the wrong place, when they were wiring sockets incorrectly, i.e. earth to neutral, live to earth etc. and spotting when the plumber installed qualplex into fittings without using the inner metal tube that allowed you to tighten a fitting without crushing the qualplex pipe. However, I wasn't able to be on site everyday and missed a hell of a lot of other fcuk ups.

As for the current situation, I called 4 plumbers and the first three who saw the wet patch on the floor immediately started talking about claiming on the house insurance and reaching for the kango hammer. It was their lack of interest in actually thoroughly investigating the problem that stopped me from telling them to go ahead and dig up the floor. The last guy who arrived (but the first guy I'd called but he was in the middle of another job and to his credit IMO, he didn't want to leave it until it was finished) also looked at the floor and said yes there was a leak but then he did something that none of the others had done, he opened the hotpress and checked the myriad of pipes in there and hey presto, he found that the cold water pipe was literally spewing out water from a push on connector which was running down the outside of the pipe and flowing along the pipe where it went under the concrete and evidently pooling under the hallway where all the other pipes run (and where there must be a void IMO due to the number of pipes). He removed the cheap push on connector that the original plumber had used and replaced it with a nut and olive type fitting and this stopped the water leak. He advised that I don't replace the flooring for a month to let the floor dry out completely as there must be a hell of a lot of water soaked into the concrete and then charged me €70 which is a lot less than the €600 - €900 I was being quoted by the kango hammer boys. The floor is now drying out nicely and fingers crossed, the problem appears to be fixed.

muffler

Nice one Dave. Glad to hear it was something simple at the end of the day.

ctrl-alt-delete

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

Au contraire mon capitan, it was because I was good at spotting bad workmanship that I managed to call a halt to a bad build, get an excellent engineer on the job and brought the builder and his subbies to heel.

The thing is though, did you buy a building project off someone near the start of a build, or did these guys you mention just turn up and start working on your build?

Spotting a bad tradesman is easier the further you let them into the building process. What would have been good vision was spotting bad workmanship from previous jobs these guys had done. You let the builder and his subbies that you brought to "heel" onto the job in the first place.

I think too many people these days go for the cheapest price, most people base it on price, and as they say you pay peanuts you get monkeys.

As regards your leak, im glad you got it sorted, but i would have assumed you'd have checked all visible piping for leaks, before coming on here and asking people their opinions on solving a problem you believed was under a concrete floor.

AMIIAM

Dave, delighted your underfloor water problem has been solved. Fair play to your new found plumber. Hang onto him. Honest TRADESMEN are almost a thing of the past. GL

Kashkai

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

The thing is though, did you buy a building project off someone near the start of a build, or did these guys you mention just turn up and start working on your build?

Spotting a bad tradesman is easier the further you let them into the building process. What would have been good vision was spotting bad workmanship from previous jobs these guys had done. You let the builder and his subbies that you brought to "heel" onto the job in the first place.

I think too many people these days go for the cheapest price, most people base it on price, and as they say you pay peanuts you get monkeys.

As regards your leak, im glad you got it sorted, but i would have assumed you'd have checked all visible piping for leaks, before coming on here and asking people their opinions on solving a problem you believed was under a concrete floor.

The builder I contracted to do the job had done 3 other builds in my area and I DID check him out with these neighbours who said he did a good job. In my case, my RIAI architect suddenly became too busy to oversee the build itself and wouldn't honour his contract to do so. I was under pressure from the builder to commence works "or else he had several other jobs to start and it would be 6 months before he could get back to me". In hindsight, it was the absence of a suitably qualified engineer/architect to oversee the build that allowed the builder to get away with so much sh1te work on my build. All of this is documented in a thread I started in March/April 2007.

With regard to the leak, I had checked all of the pipes (or thought I had) but the leaking one was in behind 2 others at the right hand side of the door and it was only by engaging in contortions that I and the plumber managed to actually see the leaking pipe - try getting on your knees, bending into a 2 foot wide space and turning 90 degrees to your right and getting your arms into this space as well without falling over/doing your back in. Fair play to the plumber for managing to find and fix this leak in what was an almost impossibly cramped space.

Finally, 3 other "Qualified Plumbers" also stated beyond doubt that the leak was under the floor and not coming from the hotpress. So if the "pros" can get it wrong, then I guess little old me is allowed the odd mistake too:P.

BTW, and I'm sure the mods would back me up on this, isn't Boards a forum for asking people advice on things like this?

Slig

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

The builder I contracted to do the job had done 3 other builds in my area and I DID check him out with these neighbours who said he did a good job. In my case, my RIAI architect suddenly became too busy to oversee the build itself and wouldn't honour his contract to do so. I was under pressure from the builder to commence works "or else he had several other jobs to start and it would be 6 months before he could get back to me". In hindsight, it was the absence of a suitably qualified engineer/architect to oversee the build that allowed the builder to get away with so much sh1te work on my build. All of this is documented in a thread I started in March/April 2007.

With regard to the leak, I had checked all of the pipes (or thought I had) but the leaking one was in behind 2 others at the right hand side of the door and it was only by engaging in contortions that I and the plumber managed to actually see the leaking pipe - try getting on your knees, bending into a 2 foot wide space and turning 90 degrees to your right and getting your arms into this space as well without falling over/doing your back in. Fair play to the plumber for managing to find and fix this leak in what was an almost impossibly cramped space.

Finally, 3 other "Qualified Plumbers" also stated beyond doubt that the leak was under the floor and not coming from the hotpress. So if the "pros" can get it wrong, then I guess little old me is allowed the odd mistake too:P.

BTW, and I'm sure the mods would back me up on this, isn't Boards a forum for asking people advice on things like this?

It is Dave but unfortunately there are also keyboard cowboys around aswell. Construction & Planning is very good compared to Motors but there will always be some.

matt925

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

As the title stated, I noticed that the laminate floor in my hallway had a couple of swellings in it and straight away I knew I was in trouble. I took off the skirting boards and lifted the edge plank and put my hand underneath and lo and behold, there was a film of water. I took up all the boards (and I'd just finished laying the last of the floors in the bedroom last week and thought I was finally finished with floor laying for a few years at least:mad:) and found that about 1/3 of the hallway floor was wet with the wettest part outside the hot press. Now obviously, I've got a pipe leaking somewhere in the general area and so the question is, how expensive is this going to be to fix. I know it'll mean kango hammering the floor to get at the pipe but will the actual leak to easy to find. To me I think I've isolated the general area as I've now dried the surrounding floor where the water had seeped and I'm left with one wet patch or could the water be channeling in from somewhere else?

Oh and would I be better off claiming on the house insurance and I'll have to replace the wood floor as well as a lot of the planks were water damaged?

theres a company called the leak detector and its one guy who comes out with what looks like a metal detector and he can find leaks with that think he is a good price too you should look him up then get a plumber to quote you a price:)

mickdw

AMIIAM wrote: »

It's really very simple. Any reputable plomber would resist burying hot/cold waterpipes in mass concrete. What about unavoidable expansion and contraction for starters? The way qualified TRADESMEN get round this problem is to provide channels in the concrete floor for heating pipes to be installed at a later date. Chances are greater that the qualified plumber would leave no leaks anyway.

You are an idiot. There is a BIG difference between mass concrete and a sand cement screed.
You seem to want to put across the impression that you are a master plumber but then you make silly statements like "What about expansion & contraction" Well I though you would know that all this underfloor pipework is insulated for 3 reasons, Firstly obviously for the required energy efficiency, secondly to provide a barrier between the pipe & the corrosive screed and thirdly to intrduce an amount of padding to allow for the expected expansion / contraction.
Yes it can be done using channels in the floor but its not really needed. As you say, there should be no leaks for many many years provided a pressure test was carried out. It is very easy to lift alittle section of floor screed especially if placed on insulation. THe leak is generally easy to spot too. The only real problem with having a leak is the fact the floor covering is usually useless after. THis is also the case if channels are used.
The other danger with using channels, is that water can be escaping for a long long time without showing up.

mickdw

mickdw wrote: »

The other danger with using channels, is that water can be escaping for a long long time without showing up.

You could add that the "leak" may appear far from the source as well.
I know of someone who ripped up a large area of floor before finally finding the leak, about 2m away from the damp patch.