Bright Ideas

RoseBlossom

So, pretty much everyone knows the economy and exchequer are in significant trouble.

Taking the two issues separately, and simplistically:
1) the exchequer has a massive shortfall in revenue,
and
2) the economy is contracting and there are widespread redundancies and pay-cuts.

Bearing in mind that money is tight (#1), what suggestions would you put into Brian Lenihan's Departmental "Idea Box" to help deal with #2? You don't need to come up with the idea yourself - you may cog ideas from the past or from other countries, and it doesn't matter if it only creates a few jobs - if it helps, it helps!

Useful suggestions please! If someone has beaten you to "Fire the entire public service and replace them with monkeys, sure there's no difference" please do not repeat it, or slight variations on it (otherwise this will end up a thread of rants), but express your support using the "Thanks" button.

Nolanger

Cut the €900,000,000 in foreign aid we're giving to other countries.

pearcider

Raise income tax to 25% and 50%. Cut VAT to 15%.

Rex Manning

Reduce minimum wage and the lower tax rate to make ireland appeal to companies like dell and to attract tourists by reducing the cost of staff in hotels/restaurants/pubs. No chance of it happening tho!

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

pearcider

Whats your bright idea dave? We're paying historically low levels of income tax, probably the lowest in the developed world - which was fine when we were in a construction boom - now that the booms over it's time to get with the program. The reduction in VAT would compensate the people paying the lower tax band and stimulate out domestic consumption as well as having no effect on our overall competitiveness and exports. Such is the disastrous deficit, we're gonna have to cut public services anyway. But I'd hate to see any cuts in the NDP. The FF tax cuts were the reason for this bubble in the first place.

Mr. Incognito

• Lower Corporation tax
• Lower Standard Rate cut off point to 25K
• Vat does not mpact consumer spending in the main, leave the rise alone
• Lower minimum wage to curb inflation
• Abolish stamp duty (raise property VAT instead)
• Ruthless cuts in surplus middle management in Semi State Bodies
• Make TD's sit a minimum of 150 days a year (currently 96)
• Cut TD and civil service unvouched expenses gravy train
• ESB and Bord Gais are making huge profits -why? Run them as non-profit organisations. Refund consumers any profits made.
• 100% corporation tax cut on all start up manufacturing companies for first five years.
• Abolish all these "consultant" government contracts. PR Firms etc.
• Wind up the Tribunals (they are only a PR excercise, we all know no TD is going to be prosecuted) Fund the Standards in Public office department instead and give them directions to prosectue findings of curroption
• Vote out Finna Fail, Jesus, I mean why are people still voting for the likes of Beverly Cooper Flynn ffs.
• Get the government to purchase this glut of surplus housing for the social and affordable housing scheme. (at reasonable prices !!!)
• Bring back student fees for persons whoose parents earn over 100K a year.
• Establish a world class government / private science educational programme. Our primary degrees are not world class. (lets not kid ourselves). The young scientist is a great start, expand it and lets bring in companies to sponsor these kids thesis and have a percentage of the patents on these programmes going to the state. (real pipe dream stuff here)
• Bring in real productivity measurements in the public service. Lets reward the good and trim the fat.
• Special Task forces to target areas where we can actually compete globally. an example would be natural energy generation. Wind, Sea, Biomass, what the hell ARE the Greens doing ffs.
• Cut foreign aid budget.
• Reform Social Welfare and cut abusive practices. (There are foreigners taking ryanair flights in twice a month to claim their benefits. Give the TV licence inspectors something better to do and send them to call to houses checking for benefit fraud.
• Stop bailing out foreign banks, the government guarantee on personal bank accounts up to 100K is enough security.
• We need a ruthless and independent financial controllers office to deal with the public service. In short, a watchdog.

The_Conductor

I agree with a lot of what has been said above.

Personally I think we should massively reduce indirect taxation and increase direct taxation- so people know what they are paying upfront, and don't constantly feel cheated.

1. Lower the lower tax band threshold to 25k

2. Abolish the 1% income levy and put 1c on the tax rates (people don't like being messed around with bull)

3. Abolish tax avoidance schemes- including the ability of buy-to-let property owners to write off all mortgage interest against rental income

4. Abolish car tax and put 3c on petrol and diesel (it would collect more than the current scheme and do away with motor tax avoidance in one foul swoop)

5. Lower the minimum wage- whether we like it or not, it is strangling the services sector

6. Reform pension entitlements- there should be a noticeable differential between the contributory OAP and the non-contributory OAP

7. Revise the Public Service Obligations of organisations such as the ESB, Eircom and the other utility companies. Where excessive demands are being made on customers and obligations not fulfilled- penalise the company, where windfall profits or excessive assets are present (the ESB) demand a windfall payment.

8. Revise the democratic system of the country- possibly base it on a list system. The current system is based purely on parochial politics where imbeciles are rewarded by their constituents for what they manage to bring back to their constituency- rather than any recognition being given for the good they do to the country as a whole (how else does Jackie Healy Rae keep getting re-elected......)
Also- look at the salaries- why should a junior TD with no qualifications whatsoever qualify for a salary north of 110k + expenses? While we're at it- why do we have so many national and local representatives? We would probably function a lot better if the number were halved.

9. Seek EU permission to implement massive reforms on how joint funds may be spent. Redo the standard contracts- which favour the lowest bid, while the company bidding knows they can simply up the cost at a later date. How else did the Luas end up costing almost 700m?

10. Abolish toll roads- if necessary put another penny on petrol and diesel to compensate. The cost of collecting the tolls takes up almost 40% of the income generated. Madness.

11. Synchronise utility charges such as water, bins etc- on a polluter or user pays principle nationwide.

12. Lower the VAT rate to 15% (putting us on a level pegging with the Northern Ireland rate)

13. Leave corporation tax rates as is

14. Increase both employers and employees PRSI contributions

15. Massive reassessment of the various Social Welfare schemes- make sure its actually worth people's while to go out and work

16. Abolish between 30-40% of all HSE posts, but make sure that no medical posts are abolished. Insist that all doctors and nurses are engaged in medical duties- akin to elsewhere (a lot of nurses seem to think that they should be engaged purely in administrative duties). Instead of abolishing paid overtime for junior doctors- implement to working time directive and cap their hours at perhaps 55-60 hours a week- allow them to have a life too- you do not need a doctor to put in a drip- if nurses are not willing to do nursing duties- fire them.

17. Increase the school year to a normal OECD level and use the increased school year to focus on maths and sciences- which will be extremely important in trying to generate higher level research and development jobs in the economy in the future.

18. Incentivise teachers- those that achieve better results get bonuses, those that don't get fired.

19. Implement some sort of scheme to encourage entrepreneurship the setting up of small businesses (other than the Forfas schemes which are mired in red tape and should be seriously curtailed)

20. Go through the IDA programme and refocus efforts on trying to attract industry here which can't up and leave like Dell

21. Go through the FAS programme and abolish courses which do not provide a reasonable expectation of making a person employable (you'd be surprised)

22. Base dole and JSA payments on the provision of community services- even if its doing things like cleaning up graveyards or shopping duties for the old or infirm- make the payment contingent on the performance of public good duties.

23. Cut the redtape associated with the provision of many services- but increase certain aspects (e.g. all those in childcare should be in possession of a Garda certificate acknowledging their suitability- but the costs of employing someone in a capacity such as this should be minimised (lower employer PRSI etc)

24. Put a massive new emphasis on Revenue chasing tax cheats and Social Welfare chasing benefits cheat- especially the likes of childrens benefits and chasing fathers for maintenance payments towards their children.

25. For the worse case scenarios- revise personal bankruptcy law from our Victorian Laws- if necessary as a stopgap measure base an interim law on commercial law. The current laws place punitive punishments on often innocent people who have to declare bankruptcy through circumstances outside of their control.

In short- try to cut back on indirect taxation, increase direct taxation, revisit public expenditure and try to focus it in areas where we need future competences, make people work for their social welfare entitlements, and make it cost far less for employers to employ new staff- while simultaneously provide an environment conducive to entrepreneurs to set up on their own.

Eoin

pearcider wrote: »

Whats your bright idea dave? We're paying historically low levels of income tax, probably the lowest in the developed world - which was fine when we were in a construction boom - now that the booms over it's time to get with the program.

Our tax rates might be low, but what are the actual bands like in comparison to other countries? It looks like anyone who is slightly over the average industrial wage will attract the higher rate of tax, and I don't know if that is the norm or not.

smccarrick wrote:

Revise the Public Service Obligations of organisations such as the ESB, Eircom and the other utility companies. Where excessive demands are being made on customers and obligations not fulfilled- penalise the company, where windfall profits or excessive assets are present (the ESB) demand a windfall payment.

Or why not share out the obligation - why shouldn't Vodafone and O2 have to commit to the suppy obligations that eircom does?

The_Conductor

eoin wrote: »

why shouldn't Vodafone and O2 have to commit to the suppy obligations that eircom does?

Because they were denied access to the pre-existing infrastructure and had to develop their businesses from the ground up- versus a state body who had everything handed to them on a platter and who subsequently went on to plunder their assets, and their future revenue streams by taking on impossible levels of loans and securitising their future revenue streams in a manner than makes it almost impossible to maintain, never mind upgrade, their infrastructure. Their PSOs existed prior to the financial plundering- and they should be held to them.

Eoin

If you put aside the historical reasons, the mobile phone companies in Ireland seem to make an awful lot of money per customer than other countries. I don't see why they shouldn't have to commit to supply obligations as well.

The_Conductor

eoin wrote: »

If you put aside the historical reasons, the mobile phone companies in Ireland seem to make an awful lot of money per customer than other countries. I don't see why they shouldn't have to commit to supply obligations as well.

The vast profits being reported by some of the companies are not necessarily profits from services provided to end-customers in this country- but intra company trading for the sake of offsetting profits in another jurisdiction against very low corporation tax rates in this jurisdiction. Don't get me wrong- Irish customers are charged through the teeth- but a lot of the reported profits for Ireland are simply book-keeping exercises to minimise their tax bills. If you were to look at this in a different manner- it costs far more to operate a mobile network in Ireland than elsewhere- because of our low population density- the massive profits quoted are a result of other activities.......

Tigger

Rex Manning wrote: »

Reduce minimum wage and the lower tax rate to make ireland appeal to companies like dell and to attract tourists by reducing the cost of staff in hotels/restaurants/pubs. No chance of it happening tho!

people on minimun wage don't pay income tax

also 35 hrs min wage is 93 euros more than the jobseekers

bmcgrath

pearcider wrote: »

Raise income tax to 25% and 50%. Cut VAT to 15%.

What the....?

The_Conductor

bmcgrath wrote: »

What the....?

Makes perfect sense- increase direct taxation and lower indirect- by picking 15% for the VAT rate, you are creating a level playing field with the North- everything else being equal it should bring prices back more into line with UK prices (though of course not everything else is equal......)