Student claiming dole, will he get caught or will i report him?

Brentmeister

Hi All,

I have a moral dilemna on my hands. I lent a friend E300 a couple of months back and despite regularly looking for it back he's not gonna pay up.

The same fella is in college receiving a scholarship for a research masters but is also getting dole. I'm thinking about tipping off the dole office.

Or should i just hold off, will he get caught anyway. I presume the dole office do regular checks with the colleges, i dont want to be known as a snitch if hes going to be caught anyway.

any advice appreciated!

uberwolf

report him. Fúck it, he's shown himself to be a good friend already. He won't be found out by the efficiency of state bodies.

jhegarty

Look at the holes in your wage packet marked PAYE & PRSI.

Should help you make you decision.

Brentmeister

i heard social welfare do a check with the colleges in january, think i'll give till 01/02/09 and then report him...thanks for the replies as i felt bad about snitching on anyone.

ps. i dont know his exact home address or anything, just his name. and clearly not his pps #. will this be enough to report him?

Sleipnir

Probably his name, college and the course he's doing would be enough. Revenue can check with admissions.

He should be feeling guilty for not returning your €300, if he doesn't, why should you feel bad about stopping him ripping off the state?

Brentmeister

Sleipnir wrote: »

He should be feeling guilty for not returning your €300, if he doesn't, why should you feel bad about stopping him ripping off the state?

true enough, but i'd prefer to think that he'd get caught eventually anyway by the social welfare checks.
i'm sure the bill will come to a lot more than 300 bucks and i know that 300 to him means a lot more than 300 to me.

Blackjack

If you're sure he's not entitled, then no need to wait. The country is in enough trouble. The longer you wait the more this chap takes that he's not entitled to, the harder it is to claim it back.

Let's face it, there are plenty dole spongers out there. One less can only help.

Kristopherus

Blackjack wrote: »

If you're sure he's not entitled, then no need to wait. The country is in enough trouble. The longer you wait the more this chap takes that he's not entitled to, the harder it is to claim it back.

Let's face it, there are plenty dole spongers out there. One less can only help.

+1

Brentmeister

Blackjack wrote: »

If you're sure he's not entitled, then no need to wait.

i'm not sure he's not entitled but i cant see how you could get a scholarship and the dole at the same time, could it be possible?

plus will the dole office want my details to nab him, or can it be anonymous?

gary the great

If he was on the dole for a while and then started in the college course he may be entitled to back to education allowence, most likely this isnt the case though.

Best way of going about this is to just send a brief letter fao the SW inspector in the local office which hes claiming from. He wont be caught otherwise....have you seen the ques in them offices lately? The priority is getting people who are waiting to be paid paid and not stopping those who are claiming fraudently.

Do it, he has a cheek knowingly doing this. I hope its enough to warrant a prosecution to.

Brentmeister

Sending the letter is a good idea, i dont want my name associated with him getting caught.

As an aside; isn't it brutal that there is no cross referencing of information.
Surely databases could be cross referenced by pps number, between colleges, revenue and social welfare.

Couldnt it be set up to run this check automatically every week or so?

just an idea to help find fraudsters

havana

Oh come on. I in no way condone people claiming things they are not entitled to. But first off you don't know he's not entitled to what he is getting. Do you know what type of payment he is recieving? I think you have to look at your motives here. Would you be shopping him if he didn't owe you money. I know how frustrating it is to be owed money. I'm owed a hell of a lot more than you. But really what are you getting yourself caught up in this for? I really doubt its cos of some moral obligation you feel to society and more about a bit of revenge

uberwolf

havana wrote: »

Oh come on. I in no way condone people claiming things they are not entitled to. But first off you don't know he's not entitled to what he is getting. Do you know what type of payment he is recieving? I think you have to look at your motives here. Would you be shopping him if he didn't owe you money. I know how frustrating it is to be owed money. I'm owed a hell of a lot more than you. But really what are you getting yourself caught up in this for? I really doubt its cos of some moral obligation you feel to society and more about a bit of revenge

he's shopping no one if your man is entitled to it.

Letter, unsigned, job done

jaffa20

:rolleyes:

Don't be silly Havana. He is getting the dole when he is not entitled to it unless it is back to education allowance. I pay massive amounts of PRSI for people who are actively seeking work, not those who are using state benefits while studying in college which is also state funded. I went through college and struggled but never would have thought of claiming the dole. Now, i'm finished and i'm not in the ideal job but i'll take anything i can get rather than claim the dole when i'm fit and able for work.

Report him asap and i would give your details as i know that social welfare give some sort or reward for this. i've heard about it posted on boards before but not sure. They will never say who reported him of course.

Brentmeister

havana wrote: »

I really doubt its cos of some moral obligation you feel to society and more about a bit of revenge

which is why i want to find out will he get caught first...i know myself snitching on him is motivated by revenge as much as anything else.
If i knew social welfare do checks that will catch him i'd keep out of it.

DenMan

Under disclosure agreements colleges and universities require you to give your PPS number. Once under the radar the Social Welfare should become alerted. Doesn't he have to sign on every month?

Report it and don't feel one bit guilty about it. You gave him 300 quid and he hasn't paid you back yet. Put an end to his taking your tax money.

Blackjack

Brentmeister wrote: »

If i knew social welfare do checks that will catch him i'd keep out of it.

Social welfare checks catch feck all.

themadchef

Brentmeister wrote: »

ps. i dont know his exact home address or anything, just his name. and clearly not his pps #. will this be enough to report him?

You dont know the address of a guy you lent €300 to? Seriously, it can be messy enough to lend money if you reallly know people well but you obviously made a very bad judgement call.

Report him if it makes you feel better, but the guy may be doing nothing wrong. If you don't know his address can you be sure any of the other info you have on his is correct? You made the first bad decision here, don't follow it up with another one. All im saying is whatever your choice...be certain you won't feel bad about it later.

the GALL

keep your nose to yourself
Ya F88kin rat
If you've a problem with him go down to his house and pull him out
Ya bottlin Ba$tard

Brentmeister

themadchef wrote: »

You dont know the address of a guy you lent €300 to? Seriously, it can be messy enough to lend money if you reallly know people well but you obviously made a very bad judgement call.

Report him if it makes you feel better, but the guy may be doing nothing wrong. If you don't know his address can you be sure any of the other info you have on his is correct? You made the first bad decision here, don't follow it up with another one. All im saying is whatever your choice...be certain you won't feel bad about it later.

ya i don't know what i was thinking, he seemed genuine and i have his mobile number. i still meet him the odd time and he reckons he'll get the money together but couldn't yet cos of being a poor student at christmas.

i might ring social welfare first and ask them when they run checks.

allthedoyles

I know others have done this in the past .............

If he does not apply for college grant , then it is unlikely he will be caught .......

He will probably not apply for this grant and continue to collect 204.30 euro per week from Social Welfare dole .

Also , he will obviously have to pay back what he has drawn during his college days ...........and will be given an option to pay back as little as 15 euro p/w .............and if he is not drawing Jobseekers allowance , then Social Welfare have no means to collect the overpayment .

He can also find out who reported him through the Freedom of Information Act.

I dont know if this Department work on anonymous information

Brentmeister

allthedoyles wrote: »

I know others have done this in the past .............

If he does not apply for college grant , then it is unlikely he will be caught .......

He will probably not apply for this grant and continue to collect 204.30 euro per week from Social Welfare dole .

Also , he will obviously have to pay back what he has drawn during his college days ...........and will be given an option to pay back as little as 15 euro p/w .............and if he is not drawing Jobseekers allowance , then Social Welfare have no means to collect the overpayment .

He can also find out who reported him through the Freedom of Information Act.

I dont know if this Department work on anonymous information

thanks allthedoyles,

just what i was afraid of that i would be found to have reported him, still i guess the unsigned letter couldn't be traced.

he's getting a scholarship though, doesnt that go through revenue and maybe he'll be caught that way

the GALL wrote: »

keep your nose to yourself
Ya F88kin rat
If you've a problem with him go down to his house and pull him out
Ya bottlin Ba$tard

right ted

jhegarty

the GALL wrote: »

keep your nose to yourself
Ya F88kin rat
If you've a problem with him go down to his house and pull him out
Ya bottlin Ba$tard

It's the business of everyone who pays tax. The dole doesn't come from the money tree.

I dunno. I see no good reason to report him. If you don't know his address, how do you know he is claiming the dole? It could be the back to education allowance, or worse, a disability allowance that he's not very proud of. Ratting on him is a huge cowardly way out. Man up and arrange to meet him for a coffee and tell him he can pay you back 50 quid a week instead. I hate all these self righteous a**holes telling you to rat on him. I'd love to see them with their backs to the wall.

havana

Do you know how much the scholarship is? Was he means tested and deemed eligible for JB? In my opinion until you have all the facts- confirmed- then do nothing.

yes they do checks and people are caught. I'm sure the majority aren't though.

the GALL

ted's nothing got to do with it
I got a better idea get your big brother brother ...no wait your big sister to go down and sort him out
clearly you can't do it

allthedoyles

Brentmeister wrote: »

he's getting a scholarship though, doesnt that go through revenue and maybe he'll be caught that way

Jobseekers Allowance is not taxable , so , no ..........Revenue will not know he was drawing JA

97i9y3941

the doles checks people?,thats new to me,you might aswell kick off the people that arent bothering their arse to look for a job either,some people seem to be able to spend years on it

bennyblanco

A friend of mine was doing this and was caught.
They're are making him pay it back (nearly 6grand i think) at a tenner a week.

havana

Fred83 wrote: »

the doles checks people?,thats new to me,you might aswell kick off the people that arent bothering their arse to look for a job either,some people seem to be able to spend years on it

Yes they do. I know someone who applied for the dole last year. Before the money came thru they got a job. Stupidly decided not to sign off until they got their first pay check as it would have meant no money coming in for about 5 weeks. They got caught and the money was stopped before it got to the post office. Assume that was thru checking with the revenue.

the GALL

jhegarty wrote: »

It's the business of everyone who pays tax. The dole doesn't come from the money tree.

Read the op.... This tread isnt about welfare fraud but should the op RAT the guy out who he lent a few quid to

Brentmeister

bennyblanco wrote: »

A friend of mine was doing this and was caught.
They're are making him pay it back (nearly 6grand i think) at a tenner a week.

how was he caught though, was he reported. And everybody should commit social welfare if this is the outcome, cheapest loan you'll ever get!

for the moment im not going to report him, but what i will do is tell him i know that with dole and scholarship he must be on 400euro a week and so can easily afford to pay back 50 euro a week as papa smut was saying

shivkk06

it might nt be dole could actually be back to education allowance he getting which he could be legally entitled too, its basically dole with different name so be very careful you have ur facts right if u do decide to report him

allthedoyles

havana wrote: »

They got caught and the money was stopped before it got to the post office. Assume that was thru checking with the revenue.

assume   
1.to take for granted or without proof;

Blackjack

shivkk06 wrote: »

it might nt be dole could actually be back to education allowance he getting which he could be legally entitled too, its basically dole with different name so be very careful you have ur facts right if u do decide to report him

In fairness the chap isn't going to have any problem if he's legally entitled to what he's getting.

If your man is not entitled, then he's a sponging rat, and he's stealing from the Taxpayer.

97i9y3941

think the system itself is a shambles anyway,i mean,there are always people that will genuinuely need the dole,then theres others who are just lazy ***** who sit on it for years

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

the GALL wrote: »

keep your nose to yourself
Ya F88kin rat
If you've a problem with him go down to his house and pull him out
Ya bottlin Ba$tard

It hopefully won't be a surprise to you that you are banned from this forum ...

allthedoyles

To get Jobseeker's Allowance you must:

1. Be unemployed
2. Be over 18 and under 66 years of age
3. Be capable of work
4. Be available for and genuinely seeking seek work

1,2, & 3 are fine ...........Its option No 4 he would fail on . So he is not legally entitled to JA

havana

allthedoyles wrote: »

assume
1.to take for granted or without proof;

Not quite sure of the point you are trying to make. But yes. I am ASSUMING that the dept did checks and while i'm not sure what there were i'm ASSUMING it was via the revenue cos i can't think of another way they would have found out he had been offered a job. I did not state is as fact because i am 'without proof'.

The FACTS are he attempted to claim for 4 weeks he was not entitled to the dept found out and they stopped the payment.

???

havana

allthedoyles wrote: »

To get Jobseeker's Allowance you must:

1. Be unemployed
2. Be over 18 and under 66 years of age
3. Be capable of work
4. Be available for and genuinely seeking seek work

1,2, & 3 are fine ...........Its option No 4 he would fail on . So he is not legally entitled to JA

He may not be in receipt of JA. The OP has assumed he is, or taken it for granted. Without proof:-)

testicle

Some full time students are entitled to the dole, and free fees.

Brentmeister

allthedoyles wrote: »

To get Jobseeker's Allowance you must:

1. Be unemployed
2. Be over 18 and under 66 years of age
3. Be capable of work
4. Be available for and genuinely seeking seek work

1,2, & 3 are fine ...........Its option No 4 he would fail on . So he is not legally entitled to JA

his masters is by research so he has no lectures or strict timetable so may be able to argue that he is available for work, though being a registered student should rule him out, shouldn't it?

Daithi McGee

Captain Obvious wrote: »

It hopefully won't be a surprise to you that you are banned from this forum ...

I'd say he will have a nice hangover in the morning

bandit197

Theres no way Id let him away with the 300. Demand your money back first. If you report him it decreases his ability to pay it back. When you get refunded then its your call but as mentioned he will get caught if he's fiddling the system.

foggy_lad

you should report him if you have doubts and any information of this nature will never be disclosed under the freedom of information act.

if he is entitled to payment nothing will happen but if he is not then another fraudster will have been stopped and hopefully prosecuted!

Davo D

Give me his details, I'll report him for you.

carlcon

If you're looking after your own interests, call him up again on the €300 he owes you. If you "rat him out" as some idiot (who was thankfully banned) put it, then he's going to have a lot less money and be less likely to ever pay you back.

Don't rush into it, as I'm sure you wont since you bothered to take the problem here.

Bluetonic

jhegarty wrote: »

Look at the holes in your wage packet marked PAYE & PRSI.

Should help you make you decision.

If there was no one claiming benefit do you really think your PAYE and PRSI would be less? Regardless of the morals of this particualr story, behave.

jaffa20 wrote: »

unless it is back to education allowance.

If you already hold a third level undergraduate qualification, you can only apply for a BTEA to take an equivalent undergraduate course in very exceptional cases.

The Postgraduate option of the BTEA Scheme is only for people who wish to take:

* a postgraduate course of study that leads to a Higher Diploma (H. Dip.) qualification

or
* a Graduate Diploma in Education (Primary teaching).

Other postgraduate qualifications are not recognised for BTEA purposes.

You will not get the BTEA if you already hold a postgraduate qualification.

dresden8

jaffa20 wrote: »

Report him asap and i would give your details as i know that social welfare give some sort or reward for this.

This is definitely not true. Urban legend only.

jaffa20 wrote: »

They will never say who reported him of course.

This is true.

He can't be cut off because of an anonymous report but he can be investigated and cut off if they get the goods on him.

Report away.

Brentmeister

I've decided not to report him, i've been in contact with him and got E50 from him, with the promise of more to come.

i'm hoping the social welfare's own checks will catch him, they're bound to run a cross check sooner or later, i'm leaving catching this fraud in the capable hands of the government:o