A New approach to Irish political representation...

Darragh29

I came across this website on the web which I think is an excellent idea. I'm sure it will have its own specific problems as all new ideas do, but on the face of it, it seems to envisage a new approach to democracy in Ireland, it certainly seems to be an innovative and ingeniousmethod of keeping vested interests out of national political decision making process.

http://www.unitedminds.ie/

He has my vote just for getting up off his arse and doing something for a start, instead of moaning about the snake infested sesspit that is Irish politics at the moment, like the rest of us are doing.

P. Breathnach

He's just planning to do what most of our politicians already do: be a populist.

uaobrien

When elected I will strictly follow the opinion of the users of this website. This will create an almost-direct democracy with a deflated middle man where you will have a much louder voice on key issues.

A few small but possibly important points:

1.

When elected I will...

Seems our candidate is either overly confident of the result, or has found a way to bypass/ignore the voting process.


2. What positions does he intend to take pre-election, or does his constituents decide that for him too? Nothing like a morally ambiguous populist to inspired confidence in the electorate.


3. Most people have no informed clue of key issues and when giving their opinions, don't have any facts to back them up. This is okay for deciding what to name the new road being laid down the street. Its not really good when it comes to deciding economic or foreign policy however.

Plus the only people who'd really voice their opinion are nutbags and boards.ie

That's why we're a REPUBLIC and not a DEMOCRACY.

“The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.”

-- Winston Churchill

P. Breathnach

uaobrien wrote: »

...That's why we're a REPUBLIC and not a DEMOCRACY...

We are a democracy: not a direct democracy but a representative democracy.

uaobrien

P. Breathnach wrote: »

We are a democracy: not a direct democracy but a representative democracy.

Last I checked we were a republic, as per the 1948 Republic of Ireland Act.

Actually I would go as far to say our most accurate description is Parliamentary Constitutional Republic.

Being a republic does not preclude us from exercising representative democracy, in fact the dictionary definition of the word is:

"a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them."

The word is derived from the the Latin "res publica", which when translated into Greek is "dimokratia".

I think therefore you may have misunderstood my meaning. I was stating our form of government is a republic, not a democracy.

Even in 1945 it seems, DeValera was proclaiming us as such.

http://biblio-archive.unog.ch/detail.aspx?ID=79109

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,801654,00.html

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F60A1FFE3C5E1B7B93C5A9178AD95F418485F9

johnnyskeleton

Darragh29 wrote: »

I came across this website on the web which I think is an excellent idea. I'm sure it will have its own specific problems as all new ideas do, but on the face of it, it seems to envisage a new approach to democracy in Ireland, it certainly seems to be an innovative and ingeniousmethod of keeping vested interests out of national political decision making process.

http://www.unitedminds.ie/

He has my vote just for getting up off his arse and doing something for a start, instead of moaning about the snake infested sesspit that is Irish politics at the moment, like the rest of us are doing.

What if 50% of the constituents wanted higher taxes increased public services and the other 50% wanted lower taxes with a reduction in public services?

But the TD could equally listen to most of what his constituents say but choose to ignore it. So it's really just the same as what we already have.

Ireland has a representative democracy not a direct democracy. That is the disctintion that matters. Anything else isn't much more than needless semantics.

johnnyskeleton

uaobrien wrote: »

Plus the only people who'd really voice their opinion are nutbags and boards.ie

That's a very good point. If we had government by boards.ie based on popularity/vocal opinions we would have internment without trial and public hangings.

Mr.Micro

One major flaw in this new approach, the candidate if elected is human. As we know humans can resist everything but temptation (Oscar Wilde).

P. Breathnach

uaobrien wrote: »

Really? Try getting yourself elected to Áras an Uachtaráin and running the country then. See if its all semantics. :P

Being a "representative democracy" doesn't state who holds the reigns of power in government. Like I said earlier I was describing our form of government, which is a parliamentary republic.

You're just spouting nonsense. Ireland is a representative democracy. If you want to know who holds power, read the constitution, which sets out in some detail how our democracy works.

pigeonbutler

Interesting idea. However he doesn't really appear to be aware that as an independent TD, the website will simply have to discuss every single government bill and most likely just decide to vote against it, rather than ever being able to be pro-active.

pokerpaddy

pigeonbutler wrote: »

Interesting idea. However he doesn't really appear to be aware that as an independent TD, the website will simply have to discuss every single government bill and most likely just decide to vote against it, rather than ever being able to be pro-active.

I see where you're coming from, but that shouldn't necessarily be the case. In many cases web users can be proactive. Perhaps some involvement in the creation of bills would make the web people more proactive and likely to vote yes?

pokerpaddy

Mr.Micro wrote: »

One major flaw in this new approach, the candidate if elected is human. As we know humans can resist everything but temptation (Oscar Wilde).

Whereas our current politicians resist temptation at every opportunity. I think being open to the scrutiny of a group of web users should see that I don't become warped or swayed by lobbyists and other hidden groups.

pokerpaddy

P. Breathnach wrote: »

He's just planning to do what most of our politicians already do: be a populist.

is populist the dirty word for democracy?

i'll be following the views of the majority a group that i would represent.

if that's populism, it should be a more efficient and effective flavour than our current system.

Scofflaw

pokerpaddy wrote: »

is populist the dirty word for democracy?

No, it's the word for a politician who simply does what the loudest voices in the crowd say without bringing any vision of their own to the table. The role of a populist is not to, say, persuade the electorate to vote for them on the basis of clearly reasoned proposals to which the candidate will stick unless they're shown to be wrong, but to agree to do whatever the crowd wants, including changing their mind every time the crowd changes theirs, a job which requires the populist to have no convictions of their own that might get in the way. If we elected someone like that, it would only be a matter of time before they joined Fianna Fáil.

pokerpaddy wrote: »

i'll be following the views of the majority a group that i would represent.

Well, no - in a multiseat constituency it would be extremely unlikely for a candidate to represent a majority.

pokerpaddy wrote: »

if that's populism, it should be a more efficient and effective flavour than our current system.

It's what we had all the way through the boom. Your optimism is probably unfounded...

cordially,
Scofflaw

Nodin

Darragh29 wrote: »

I came across this website on the web which I think is an excellent idea. I'm sure it will have its own specific problems as all new ideas do, but on the face of it, it seems to envisage a new approach to democracy in Ireland, it certainly seems to be an innovative and ingeniousmethod of keeping vested interests out of national political decision making process.

http://www.unitedminds.ie/

He has my vote just for getting up off his arse and doing something for a start, instead of moaning about the snake infested sesspit that is Irish politics at the moment, like the rest of us are doing.

Unfortunately what he has there lacks the checks nessecary to prevent kneejerk reactions and populist crap. Next thing you know gay men are barred from using contraception on weekends and the penalty for dogs who crap in peoples gardens is death.

P. Breathnach

Nodin wrote: »

Unfortunately what he has there lacks the checks nessecary to prevent kneejerk reactions and populist crap. Next thing you know gay men are barred from using contraception on weekends and the penalty for dogs who crap in peoples gardens is death.

That's the appeal of this proposal.

Soldie

I don't know if he's trying to play devil's advocate with some of those polls, but the fact that he seems to struggle with basic grammar and spelling suggests otherwise. Some of his suggestions are ludicrous.

Needless to say, he won't be getting my vote.