Golf Digest 2009 Hotlist

Benny Cake

http://www.golfdigest.com/equipment/ratings

For anybody considering investing in some new gear....:D:D

ShriekingSheet

D_Red_Army wrote: »

http://www.golfdigest.com/equipment/ratings

For anybody considering investing in some new gear....:D:D

Nearly everything is Adams and Callaway - can't help but think some cash is changing hands there.

Obni

Really pisses me off that Adams always features in US reviews, but no-one seems to stock it here. If it wasn't the worst possible time to start a business I'd consider importing it myself.

ShriekingSheet

Obni wrote: »

Really pisses me off that Adams always features in US reviews, but no-one seems to stock it here. If it wasn't the worst possible time to start a business I'd consider importing it myself.

Frankly, I've never picked up an Adams club I liked. Although I hear the hybrid is very, very popular on tour and in the amateur game.

Mister Sifter

It's strange how there are brands we all love and those we'd never touch. I'd generally never bother with Ping (putters are an exception), Callaway or Adams. A bit like anytime i've tried to love a chubby woman... anytime we've tried to get along, it's just ended in red cheeks and frustration and a feeling that i could've done so much better.

DubGF

Oredered Callaway x22's the other day, cant wait to try them out !!!

markie4

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

Nearly everything is Adams and Callaway - can't help but think some cash is changing hands there.

Adams aren't one of the bigger spenders, whatever about Callaway.
As a fan of Adams clubs going back several years I think that's an ignorant comment, and you probably haven't tried any of the higher end adams products.
Adams gets great reviews in the States because it's full range is available, and it makes a good product, just because it's not widely available in Ireland doesn't make it a bad product.
Definitely prefer to have a set of Adams Pro Golds than the Titleist 735's I currently have

ShriekingSheet

markie4 wrote: »

Adams aren't one of the bigger spenders, whatever about Callaway.
As a fan of Adams clubs going back several years I think that's an ignorant comment, and you probably haven't tried any of the higher end adams products.

Adams tops the page on Drivers under $350, hybrids, game improvement irons and super game improvement irons. That's 4 of the main categories. Are you telling me you think this is because impartial research by Golf Digest has found them to be the better than Titleist, Ping, TaylorMade and Callaway in every category? I'm sorry I just can't believe that.

There's barely any mention of any of Titleist and TaylorMade.

Calling my comment ignorant is a bit much if you ask me. Even if I had never hit an Adams club (and of course I have) it's not about that. It's about major publications receiving large sums of cash on a regular basis from manufacturers for advertising. Sometimes advertising takes the traditional form of a page-ad in the magazine or a banner on the website. Other times, money paid can gain a manufacturer favourable editorial comment. When you see examples like this one where certain manufs receive huge praise and other ones are more or less ignored, it's not hard to understand what's going on.

I base this on my own experience of this kind of thing in the marketing industry (though not the golfing industry) and you can call me cynical maybe but not ignorant.

I did point out one area of success I believe Adams have had in the last year, though I haven't hit the thing myself...

"...Although I hear the hybrid is very, very popular on tour and in the amateur game."

It's not like I have some vendetta against Adams.

markie4 wrote: »

Adams gets great reviews in the States because it's full range is available, and it makes a good product, just because it's not widely available in Ireland doesn't make it a bad product.
Definitely prefer to have a set of Adams Pro Golds than the Titleist 735's I currently have.

Adams was fully available in Ireland in the beginning when they launch with Tight Lies and Nick Faldo was playing and on board. They commissioned shop staff hugely to drive sales but didn't shift much at all. That's why they're not fully available here anymore.

As for the "great reviews" of the new stuff, I'm sure it's great but I haven't tried the latest stuff, nor do I put much stock in reviews like Golf Digest.

kingshankly

would have to agree with the sheet here maybe im wrong but i havent seen adams clubs filling the bags of pros too much and if some of there clubs are that good surely pros would be using them more. they must spend serious money on advertising i watch a lot of golf programes on setanta golf and on some adams are plastered all over the place

ShriekingSheet

kingshankly wrote: »

would have to agree with the sheet here maybe im wrong but i havent seen adams clubs filling the bags of pros too much and if some of there clubs are that good surely pros would be using them more. they must spend serious money on advertising i watch a lot of golf programes on setanta golf and on some adams are plastered all over the place

In fairness, pros play clubs by whoever pays them most. Adams not being prepared to pay huge amounts doesn't make them not as good.

But there's tactical ways you can spend your money to get some page space among the big boys. TaylorMade recorded their stats for the Burner driver at a time they were offering a nice cheque to every pro who tee'd it up with one on Thhursday. You can imagine the lower tier tour players... TM got a sort-of-genuine stat that some ridiculous percentage of tour players were playing their club.

In this case it seems Golf Digest are having a love-in with Adams. The cynic in me says she's a gold digga

DonkeyPokerTour

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

Adams tops the page on Drivers under $350, hybrids, game improvement irons and super game improvement irons. That's 4 of the main categories.

You dont suppose that its because Adams starts with an A and the lists appear to be alphabetical? Then there's a star beside the "best in category"?

markie4

Sheet,
You'll probably not be bothered looking but I don't think the love-in is quite the romance you think. They seem to list gold medallists alphabetically, seems there's 4-5 in each category, hence where Adams have good product ie cheaper drivers and game improvement irons they're listed first, and even then there's a couple of "category leaders" including Titleist AP2's in the players irons. And Titleist and TM get mentioned, just on page 2 usually.

The reviews i previously referred to are from forums such as golfwrx.com, not any random magazine. there's sufficient numbers posting on there to really get a good overall opinion of how a brand is regarded by people actually using the product, and based on my ownership of various adams clubs, they're as good/bad as any other brand depending on your taste.

kagni

If you are a big advertiser with Golf Digest you are on the hotlist.
They're not going to bite the hand that feeds 'em.

copacetic

DonkeyPokerTour wrote: »

You dont suppose that its because Adams starts with an A and the lists appear to be alphabetical? Then there's a star beside the "best in category"?

well spotted, they are alphabetically listed:

DRIVERS: Drivers over $350 | Drivers under $350
By Mike Stachura
Photos by Jim Herity
February 2009

CLUBS LISTED IN ALPHABETICAL ORDER

ShriekingSheet

markie4 wrote: »

Sheet,
The reviews i previously referred to are from forums such as golfwrx.com, not any random magazine. there's sufficient numbers posting on there to really get a good overall opinion of how a brand is regarded by people actually using the product, and based on my ownership of various adams clubs, they're as good/bad as any other brand depending on your taste.

Fair enough on the alphabetical thing. I still stand by my money changing hands point. You quoted me saying that and called me "ignorant" for it.

markie4 wrote: »

As a fan of Adams clubs going back several years I think that's an ignorant comment, and you probably haven't tried any of the higher end adams products

The only point I made (initially) was that there's no way such premium positioning (GD HotList) is presented without any bias. A major golf publication is not a noble bastian of truth - they'll take pretty much all the revenue they can generate. Make an opposing argument if you like but don't call me ignorant when I give an informed opinion.

Adams
I'm not overly concerned about whether you and other forums think Adams make good clubs or don't make good clubs. I wasn't really looking to get into a discussion on Adams clubs. I said don't particularly like any I've tried and that they failed to take off here in Ireland back in the Faldo days. I was working in a golf shop at the time. It's just my opinion and a relevent fact.

You seem like you don't accept my opinion on Adams and want to prove your opinion to be the right one. Personally I think arguing over opinions and personal preference is ridiculous but if you want to have a debate about it I'll have it with you just for the hell of it. At worst it'll make good reading for the others.

soundsham

sonartec is one of the most used fairway (no.1 in 2003 to 3rd most last year) and utility club used on tour yet they never make any hot list as

1 They never pay pro's to use their gear
2 they don't spend very much on advertising

advertising is key for all these types of magazines........you scratch my back and i'll scratch yours........

had an adams driver a few years back it was rubbish

todd hamilton made good use of his sonartec utility against ernie in 2004 open

kagni

soundsham wrote: »

sonartec is one of the most used fairway (no.1 in 2003 to 3rd most last year) and utility club used on tour yet they never make any hot list as

1 They never pay pro's to use their gear
2 they don't spend very much on advertising

advertising is key for all these types of magazines........you scratch my back and i'll scratch yours........

had an adams driver a few years back it was rubbish

todd hamilton made good use of his sonartec utility against ernie in 2004 open

Sorry to disappoint you Soundsham, but you won't be seeing Sonartec on any Hotlists any time soon.
They have gone out of business.
The irony is that Hamiltons success with their hybrid, which played a large part in the proliferation of hybrids in the last few years, was partly responsible for their demise...
http://www.golfweek.com/story/sonartec-feature-033108

markie4

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

Fair enough on the alphabetical thing. I still stand by my money changing hands point. You quoted me saying that and called me "ignorant" for it.

......[cut]

You seem like you don't accept my opinion on Adams and want to prove your opinion to be the right one. Personally I think arguing over opinions and personal preference is ridiculous but if you want to have a debate about it I'll have it with you just for the hell of it. At worst it'll make good reading for the others.

To be fair, I was actually referring to your ignorance of reasonably current Adams product, not anything to do with money changing hands, but that's fine.

You're right, I don't accept your opinion of Adams, but as you say it's personal preference, so it's as valid as mine...so no good reading here i'm afraid

ShriekingSheet

markie4 wrote: »

To be fair, I was actually referring to your ignorance of reasonably current Adams product, not anything to do with money changing hands, but that's fine.

You're right, I don't accept your opinion of Adams, but as you say it's personal preference, so it's as valid as mine...so no good reading here i'm afraid

Ok

Anyway, what club(s) is it that you have/have had by Adams that you like? As I said earlier, I hear the Hybrid is really good and very popular on tour. Do you have that? I had a look at the site and there seems to be about 6 of every type of club. Do you know which is the popular one with the pros?

They've gone extremely spacey with their design in general.

zillmere

I have an Adams BUL4000 driver. I love it. It is pretty reliable and has pretty good distance.

markie4

Currently playing the Insight XTD driver 10.5* with stock DVS shaft (2008 model I think), and an Insight 16.5* 4 wood with prolaunch red shaft. Also using Adams wedges (52 and 56*)
I also have the RPM 460 draw with prolaunch blue, which for me was better than the FT3 and TM Burner at the time of testing. For me it was similar distance, but with better dispersion than both FT3 and Burner.

I'm not using hybrids at the moment, but in the past I've used Nickent (with NV75's), so can't personally comment on the Adams hybrids. The latest Adams versions seem to be getting less positive comment than previous editions, so might be worth looking for slightly older models.

Adams were the most played hybrid, with almost 1 in 3 players on the PGA tour using them in 2008 (the Darrell survey)
Of hi-profile players Anthony Kim is using an Adams Idea pro 14* hybrid for about the past year. That would be the most popular model or the Idea pro gold, with a VS proto or mitsubishi rayon Javln as a stock shaft, but obviously the pros could be using any shaft.

ShriekingSheet

markie4 wrote: »

Currently playing the Insight XTD driver 10.5* with stock DVS shaft (2008 model I think), and an Insight 16.5* 4 wood with prolaunch red shaft. Also using Adams wedges (52 and 56*)
I also have the RPM 460 draw with prolaunch blue, which for me was better than the FT3 and TM Burner at the time of testing. For me it was similar distance, but with better dispersion than both FT3 and Burner.

I'm not using hybrids at the moment, but in the past I've used Nickent (with NV75's), so can't personally comment on the Adams hybrids. The latest Adams versions seem to be getting less positive comment than previous editions, so might be worth looking for slightly older models.

Adams were the most played hybrid, with almost 1 in 3 players on the PGA tour using them in 2008 (the Darrell survey)
Of hi-profile players Anthony Kim is using an Adams Idea pro 14* hybrid for about the past year. That would be the most popular model or the Idea pro gold, with a VS proto or mitsubishi rayon Javln as a stock shaft, but obviously the pros could be using any shaft.

Wow that's an extremely strong hybrid Kim is using. Depending on the length of shaft obviously but surely he doesn't carry a 3 wood aswell... Or if the hybrid shaft is short, with 14 degrees it must gun in very low. Odd choice if you ask me.

I like the way they have a huge range of shaft options for the clubs. I can see how this is really appreciated by customers but would probably put chain stores off - they really prefer to get stock in and shift it rather than customising and ordering everything individually. Personally, I don't like to have non-stock shafts fitted so it's a huge help when you can get a shaft you like direct from the factory. I also use the ProLaunch Red. Find it great.

The Puglielli wedge looks nice. Is that what you have or the Watson one?

markie4

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

Wow that's an extremely strong hybrid Kim is using. Depending on the length of shaft obviously but surely he doesn't carry a 3 wood aswell... Or if the hybrid shaft is short, with 14 degrees it must gun in very low. Odd choice if you ask me.

I like the way they have a huge range of shaft options for the clubs. I can see how this is really appreciated by customers but would probably put chain stores off - they really prefer to get stock in and shift it rather than customising and ordering everything individually. Personally, I don't like to have non-stock shafts fitted so it's a huge help when you can get a shaft you like direct from the factory. I also use the ProLaunch Red. Find it great.

The Puglielli wedge looks nice. Is that what you have or the Watson one?

Think it might be a 16* bent to 14*, tho there is also a tour model 14* available from bombsquad and their ilk. Not sure about what spec shaft he's using, but there's a couple of instances of him hitting 260-270, which is fairly mental. I think he carries an 18* 2-iron as well, but generally no 3-wood.

If you check the websites of various companies now, they all seem to be offering a great variety of shaft options on woods, hybrids and irons, whether they'd be available to order from a pro/store in Ireland without a huge premium is another question.

I'm using the Watson wedges alright. Bought some Nike SV's (56* & 60*) and a Wishon gap wedge too with the intention of upgrading, but at the moment still prefer the adams.

kagni

From what I've read the new Adams Speedline driver could be a success for them.
It supposedly offers increased speed due to it's aerodynamic design. So far a few players not on Adams' books are interested in playing it next year, if the pros are willing to play a driver without getting paid, it must be good.

Hoppermcgrath

I have a Sonartec hb001 hybrid and GS Tour 3 wood. Both got from a US based ebay seller golfwarehouse. They had plenty of Sonartec stock last Autumn after Sonartec went bust. Got the 2 clubs for total just over $US100. Higly recommend. Beautiful clubs. Liked them so much bought 3 wedges T35 model too!

soundsham wrote: »

sonartec is one of the most used fairway (no.1 in 2003 to 3rd most last year) and utility club used on tour yet they never make any hot list as

1 They never pay pro's to use their gear
2 they don't spend very much on advertising

advertising is key for all these types of magazines........you scratch my back and i'll scratch yours........

had an adams driver a few years back it was rubbish

todd hamilton made good use of his sonartec utility against ernie in 2004 open

gerp

I have to say i would really question the findings from such magazines especially when they rate golf courses i think they tend to mention the golf clubs and driver makes that actually advertise with them.

Just my feeling.