Dismissal for refusing to work on a project for moral reasons

HarryD

This hasn't happened to me, but just wondering what the position is on it.
My company may be getting a project for the Israeli military.
If I refuse to work on it on moral grounds can I be dismissed?

I know my friend was in a similar position but his manager said,
if anyone doesn't want to work on it, it's fine and he'd understand.

Cheers,
HD

spank_inferno

I dont think the reasons for refusing to work would come into it?
Whether its based on moral code or laziness employers probably wouldnt look favourably

A refusal to carry out ones work would at the very least result in a verbal/written warning, perhaps dismissal if your boss considers it "gross incompetence".

Its not exactly a noble thought but I would just swallow morality and proceed with your project, Your employer could replace you if not, the project would continue and Morals dont pay mortgages.

JDLK

Are you a member of a union?

They may be able to advise you with regards to making a moral stand

if not

then I suppose you are employed to service their clients and if you cant fulfill that then it obviously isnt the right company for you

jim o doom

Depressingly, I reckon the legal stance of the two previous posters is entirely correct. If your morals can't stand it - are you really going to be able to get a job if you lose your current one? If you don't think you can, speak to your boss and see if it's possible to be reassigned to a different project within the company as opposed to a flat refusal..

doolox

I would contact your boss first in a tentative non confrontational way and let him know your concerns.
Then I'd contact NERA (National Employment Rights Agency ) so that your concerns can be made public and a verifiable record of your concerns can be built up for use in future litigation if this proves necessary.
The option of taling on alternative work for other less controversia clients is a very sensible one.
This brings to mind the stance taken by the Dunnes Stores workers in the '80's in refusing to handle South African fruit in protest against aparthiet (white rule). ALthough they lost money on strike for ages their action and the actions of countless others throughout the world highlighted the evil of that regime and led to change.
The IDF shouldn't have things easy at the moment.
The tragedy is that with evryone scared of their jobs and desperate for work they will find it easy to get takers for their contracts.

Gone West

Anybody who is working for a company who subcontracts for the Israeli military would be well advised not to post about it on the internet.
I am fairly certain that as terms of their contract, your company will be required to have its employees sign fairly heavy NDAs, or have already signed NDAs.

Morlar

Whatever you think of israeli military you (your friend) cant just give yourself the right to choose which parts of your job appeal to you and which do not.

You say it would be immoral to work on the project and you would object 'on moral grounds' but that is a matter of opinion and everyone has one, others would say that it would in fact be immoral not to.

This is a political/religious issue and there is no place for employees to just decide on their own, either you work for the company or you dont in my view.

Employers would be entitled not to accept that excuse/reason as just about anyybody could raise some kind of a moral objection to just about anything (right down to a religious person working in a garage who disagreed with selling condoms and decided on moral grounds to not do that part of their job).

I believe they would be fully within their rights to dismiss anyone who refused to complete their assigned duties.

uaobrien

Morlar wrote: »

Whatever you think of israeli military you (your friend) cant just give yourself the right to choose which parts of your job appeal to you and which do not.

...

This is a political/religious issue and there is no place for employees to just decide on their own, either you work for the company or you dont in my view.

...

I believe they would be fully within their rights to dismiss anyone who refused to complete their assigned duties.

Initially reading this, I wanted to rail all over it, because I totally disagree. Unfortunately I disagree on principle, but the facts Morlar states are most likely true.

If you could somehow show adequate reasons for your moral objection (e.g. you're Muslim, or are Palestinian by citizenship or descent) then you could possibly argue your position more forcefully.

However, if you're objections are based solely on your personal horror of the event, then you can voice your objection, but your employer can take action based on your performance in the project.

I worked for a military contractor in the US when they invaded Iraq. I didn't mind them going in to take out Saddam, but I seriously objected to the lies the told about WMDs, state sponsorship of al-Qaeda etc. as pretext. I also worked with a guy whose parents fled Iran to the US in the 70s, who also objected on religious reasons.

If you truly object that much, you may want to seek other positions, but that's a pretty big choice in this economy.

InReality

If there is another project you could work on instead , i don't see you getting dismissed. Does your companies name begin with an "A" ?

Darragh29

InReality wrote: »

If there is another project you could work on instead , i don't see you getting dismissed. Does your companies name begin with an "A" ?

Or possibly an "I"??? Large employer in Kildare possibly???

Rex Manning

Think something similar happens years ago in Galway (15 or so maybe) - there was a bit in the local papers about one of the IT manufacturers doing stuff for the french army to supply nuclear bits and bobs to israel. was a bit too young for it to register but might be able find out more on the galway advertiser site

philologos

Darragh29 wrote: »

Or possibly an "I"??? Large employer in Kildare possibly???

Said company are possibly large employers in Haifa, and in a suburb of Tel Aviv if I am thinking of the same "I"?

To be honest with you, there is only so much that is of our control. Even if the OP doesn't assist with this project which is thought to be for the IDF, someone else will. It is not as if one persons refusal to work with the IDF is going to stop them acheiving their goals to defeat Hamas (albeit with excessive force) or to defend itself in future conflicts.

War isn't a pretty thing, and nobody is saying that it is. However it will only take political efforts, not personal boycotts on buying, or selling of goods to certain nations.

Wishbone Ash

Morlar wrote: »

Whatever you think of israeli military you (your friend) cant just give yourself the right to choose which parts of your job appeal to you and which do not.

You say it would be immoral to work on the project and you would object 'on moral grounds' but that is a matter of opinion and everyone has one, others would say that it would in fact be immoral not to.

This is a political/religious issue and there is no place for employees to just decide on their own, either you work for the company or you dont in my view.

Employers would be entitled not to accept that excuse/reason as just about anyybody could raise some kind of a moral objection to just about anything (right down to a religious person working in a garage who disagreed with selling condoms and decided on moral grounds to not do that part of their job).

I believe they would be fully within their rights to dismiss anyone who refused to complete their assigned duties.

While I agree with most of what you say, those who work in the health service in the UK can refuse to assist with terminations of pregnancies on moral grounds.

jhegarty

For a reference lookup the dunes stores workers who refused to handle South African goods during apartheid.

Morlar

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

While I agree with most of what you say, those who work in the health service in the UK can refuse to assist with terminations of pregnancies on moral grounds.

There is no like for like comparison between that and someone who does an office job for a company that has a customer in israel, or, working for a company who have a project which is destined for the israel military.

In my view it is not a valid comparison. Physically assisting an abortion procedure is not comparable in my view.

If people have an issue they could always participate in and encourate others to participate in a boycott of all israeli goods.

World opinion and international pressure will not change israeli attitude one iota (with the US veto in place).

Economic pressure is the only possible way to affect their decisions, making your employers life more difficult or putting yourself out of a job wont fix anything in my view.

XJR

Morlar wrote: »

Whatever you think of israeli military you (your friend) cant just give yourself the right to choose which parts of your job appeal to you and which do not.

Remember the Dunnes Strikers? was there anyone in the country who didn't support them and is there any difference between the two situation?

r3nu4l

OP, just remember that even if you refuse to do this, others won't. The job will get done one way or the other. Even if your company loses the job another company will take it.

You could always just do the job but not put in your best efforts You may get a bit of a bollocking but so long as you don't start talking about how you despise the IDF then you may be okay.

Back in the day of crippling strikes many companies simply did the whole 'work to rule' thing and 'go slows'.

Personally, I think you should just get on with the job or leave the company. Remember your wages will be partially paid by the IDF if the job goes ahead...does that bother you? Will you refuse a percentage of your wages too?

Morlar

XJR wrote: »

Remember the Dunnes Strikers?

Yes I do.

XJR wrote: »

was there anyone in the country who didn't support them

Yes there were.

XJR wrote: »

and is there any difference between the two situation?

Yes there is a difference between the OP's post and the position of the 1984-ish era dunnes stores shelf stackers in town.

Manic Moran

It seems to me that your right to decide what work to do is about equal to the employer's right to decide who to do that work. The contract is simple: You work for the company, the company pays you. By refusing assigned work, you're breaking the contract.

If you think your skillset is so unique that your protest is going to be of use, then go ahead. Otherwise, I'd expect the employer will find someone who is more interested in earning money. The alternative is if your skillset is so simple that anyone can do it, then you may be able to request a swap with another department, but it might affect your career in the long term with that company.

NTM

CiaranC

Morlar wrote: »

There is no like for like comparison between that and someone who does an office job for a company that has a customer in israel, or, working for a company who have a project which is destined for the israel military.

Id have to say I disagree. The OP would be working on a project which directly aid the IDF. Id say thats a strong comparison.

Yes there is a difference between the OP's post and the position of the 1984-ish era dunnes stores shelf stackers in town.

The difference is that Israel has more sympathisers here than the South African government of the day did.

OP, I agree with the other posters in that youd have to play it smart. I doubt you have any legal basis to refuse.

Morlar

CiaranC wrote: »

Id have to say I disagree. The OP would be working on a project which directly aid the IDF. Id say thats a strong comparison.

Cant agree with that.

There is a big difference between a religious person being asked to physically participate in an abortion procedure and the position of a person working in an office for a company that has a project which has an aspect of IDF involvement.

There is no comparison whatsoever in my view.

If the OP was being asked to physically participate in a bombing attack on civilian area in Gaza I would say there is a comparison - but that is not the case and so there is no valid comparison.

Morlar

Morlar wrote: »

Cant agree with that.

There is a big difference between a religious person being asked to physically participate in an abortion procedure and the position of a person working in an office for a company that has a project which has an aspect of IDF involvement.

There is no comparison whatsoever in my view.

If the OP was being asked to physically participate in a bombing attack on civilian area in Gaza I would say there is a comparison - but that is not the case and so there is no valid comparison.

He's talking about dunnes 1984

Morlar

Papa Smut wrote: »

He's talking about dunnes 1984

No he isn't - read the thread in order that reply post of his is in response to 2 points not one.

keefg

I say "Pah!" to morals.

The Palestinians in this case (or whoever it is you are supporting in your protest) will not send you a cheque every month to compensate you for losing your job on their behalf.

I say do the job, take the money, pay your bills. Let Obama and the UN sort out all that crap in the Middle East, after all, that's what they get paid for

InReality

Man refuses to drive "Probably No God" bus.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/7832647.stm

"
First Bus said it would do everything in its power to ensure Mr Heather does not have to drive the buses.
"


"
First Bus said in a statement: "As a company we understand Mr Heather's views regarding the atheist bus advert and we are doing what we can to accommodate his request not to drive the buses concerned."
"

So your morals or religious views can be accomodated ....

Serafijn

HarryD, if your objections stem from a personal involvement or experience which is relevant to this project then your employer would probably be sensitive and make an effort to reassign you. If it is based on what you've seen on the news then don't expect to get much sympathy. Also don't believe everything you see on the news, let alone risk your job for it...

epictetus2009

if this is a feeling from the media attention its a bad light and your probably not the right fit to lead a project in the first place if your that easily swayed to one side. If it is personally affecting you in some way then proactively raise this with your immediate manager. sounds like you are on a crusade, all due respect?