Parking ticket

ebowdia

I was on holiday in Belgium a few months back and rented a car. On the last day of the trip I ended up getting a parking ticket. I was in a rush to get to the airport at the time and never bothered sorting it out.

Yesterday I recieved a bill for E70 from the Belgian traffic crowd - they must have sourced my contact details through the rental card company.

So, should I payup or just forget about it? What are the chances of it going further if I don't pay?

Seth Brundle

Do you plan on ever going back to Belgium?

biko

They might get it from the car company instead since they have your CC details. Happened to me.

KTRIC

Probably best to just pay it. Do the crime pay the fine

BIRDCAGE1

I would pay it if I were you. I know that in the states unpaid speeding/parking tickets whiel on holidays will have an effect on your ablilty to get a visa in the future, if you ever want to go back again.

I'm not sure about Belgium, but you never know if you may need the services of the police in Belgium in the future ......... 'what goes around comes around' kinda thing.

I would bin the fine and cancel my credit card(say you lost it) that way the rental company cannot take money from your account. Its a parking ticket not attempted murder they are not going to haul you in to custody if you try to enter Belgium again so I wouldnt worry about it.

preilly79

Aileen Silly Rent wrote: »

I would bin the fine and cancel my credit card(say you lost it) that way the rental company cannot take money from your account.

Wrong. The charge can be passed to the new card.

GigaByte

preilly79 wrote: »

Wrong. The charge can be passed to the new card.

Not true!

craichoe

ebowdia wrote: »

I was on holiday in Belgium a few months back and rented a car. On the last day of the trip I ended up getting a parking ticket. I was in a rush to get to the airport at the time and never bothered sorting it out.

Yesterday I recieved a bill for E70 from the Belgian traffic crowd - they must have sourced my contact details through the rental card company.

So, should I payup or just forget about it? What are the chances of it going further if I don't pay?

Whos to say you ever recieved the letter in the first place.

The ONLY way the Belgians can tie a fine to you is via your passport, in rare cases where there is large fines they will stop you leaving an Airport in their Jurisdiction for payment. The Dutch do it in Schiphol as well.

However they may just bill the Rental company, strange actually thats the way its normally done.

I'd ignore it and let them get onto the rental company, I would be wary of a case of double billing.

ebowdia

Cheers for the replys guys. Hmmm, I suppose E70 isn't the end of the world. The only reason I'm a bit reluctant to pay it is because I actually had paid for unstreet parking and placed the receipt on the dash. However it must have fliped over as I closed the door without me realising! I explained this to the rental company and they said not to worry about it.

Is there a way for the Belgian authorities to link my credit card to my passport identity - ie, person with X credit card is the holder of Y passport - nab him if he comes back into the country!?

preilly79

GigaByte wrote: »

Not true!

Very much true. Any attempted transactions to the old card will be monitored by the CC company and CAN be passed to the new card. I used to work for a company that writes this software for the CC industry.

GigaByte

ebowdia wrote: »

Is there a way for the Belgian authorities to link my credit card to my passport identity - ie, person with X credit card is the holder of Y passport - nab him if he comes back into the country!?

Of course there is, "the authorities" can get almost any information they want on you but do you really think there going to bother? There's probably 1,000 of parking tickets given out each day there to local Belgians and 1,000's that don't bother paying. They have enough trouble getting them to pay than spend time trying to hunt you down! :pac:

GigaByte

preilly79 wrote: »

Very much true. Any attempted transactions to the old card will be monitored by the CC company and CAN be passed to the new card. I used to work for a company that writes this software for the CC industry.

Of course it can be passed! You may have written the software but you didn't write the rules. When you cancel a credit card there's a procedure they follow and they'll tell you whats pending incase there's any legitimate transactions to pay.

preilly79

GigaByte wrote: »

Of course it can be passed! You may have written the software but you didn't write the rules. When you cancel a credit card there's a procedure they follow and they'll tell you whats pending incase there's any legitimate transactions to pay.

And the rules say that you are free to mark any of these transactions as fraudulent, but they are not automatically removed from the card. They are held there until the charging company can contact the cc company and make their case. There's nothing fraudulent about the charges in the OP's case.

ebowdia

Well obviously "the authorities" can get whatever info they need if they want :-) But say your credit card and passport are linked to different addresses then there's no simple way to track is there? I mean they can't easily link up the Joe Bloggs who didn't pay a parking fine with the 50 Joe Bloggs in the country!

GigaByte

preilly79 wrote: »

And the rules say that you are free to mark any of these transactions as fraudulent, but they are not automatically removed from the card. They are held there until the charging company can contact the cc company and make their case. There's nothing fraudulent about the charges in the OP's case.

I'd bet if he rings up his credit card company and checks to see if there's a pending parking card charge there won't be one. If he then cancels his card. He cannot be then charged a parking fine to his new card.

preilly79

GigaByte wrote: »

I'd bet if he rings up his credit card company and checks to see if there's a pending parking card charge there won't be one. If he then cancels his card. He cannot be then charged a parking fine to his new card.

Again, wrong. A company can charge to a card using only the first twelve digits of the card. Generally speaking, though it's not the rule, your replacement card will have the same first 12 digits as the last card. these first twelve digits identify the issuer, holder etc. the last four identify the actual card.

GigaByte

preilly79 wrote: »

Again, wrong. A company can charge to a card using only the first twelve digits of the card. Generally speaking, though it's not the rule, your replacement card will have the same first 12 digits as the last card. these first twelve digits identify the issuer, holder etc. the last four identify the actual card.

Wrong about what? 5,6,7,10,16 digits I never mentioned anything about digits? Anyway just looking at my new card and only the first 11 digits are the same

Anyway if I was the OP I wouldn't pay the fine or cancel my credit card. I'd file it in the bin and forget about it.

onemorechance

You should probably pay the fine as a larger fine for not paying the first one on time is likely to follow. I received a speeding fine from Holland for a rental car. The fine was only about E15, but it stated the next fine would be E50 if the first fine was not paid by a certain time. After that court. In the unlikely event that you still have your parking ticket stub, you should send that to the Belgians and it should be enough to get off, otherwise I think you should pay in case you end up with a larger fine and the car rental company attempts to take this from you credit card. There seems to be varying opinions on this, but they should not be allowed to deduct any money off your card without your signature. You signed and maybe entered your pin when you rented the car, and any money deducted then is all they are entitilled to take off your card. I think this is the case anyway, it would not make sense that anyone who you have given your credit card details too can take money off it whenever they want.

ebowdia

Thanks guys - I'll either pay or not pay, but I won't be cancelling my card - that's just too much hassle. I'll contemplate what to do over a few weekend beers....

ebowdia

Good point onemorechance - I'll have scout around for the ticket, there's a chance that I could still have it somewhere.

Also if the fine was to increase then I would start to get a bit worried!

ted1

when renting a card, in the not so fine print it clearly states that any tolls, fines, etc will be passed on to the the person renting the car adn the car rental company have the right to charge this to a credit card....

preilly79

onemorechance wrote: »

You signed and maybe entered your pin when you rented the car, and any money deducted then is all they are entitilled to take off your card. I think this is the case anyway, it would not make sense that anyone who you have given your credit card details too can take money off it whenever they want.

Most (who knows, maybe all?) rental agreements will say that the rental company reserves the right to pass on any charges you incur during the rental period. this includes parking fines, speeding fines etc. It's in the contract the OP signed.

A lot of very incorrect advice being passed around here.

preilly79

GigaByte wrote: »

Wrong about what?

Wrong about this:

GigaByte wrote: »

If he then cancels his card. He cannot be then charged a parking fine to his new card.

craichoe

preilly79 wrote: »

Again, wrong. A company can charge to a card using only the first twelve digits of the card. Generally speaking, though it's not the rule, your replacement card will have the same first 12 digits as the last card. these first twelve digits identify the issuer, holder etc. the last four identify the actual card.

LOL .. How did you come to that conclusion

I've had a replacement twice and the first 12 digits were not the same in each case.

preilly79

GigaByte wrote: »

5,6,7,10,16 digits I never mentioned anything about digits?:)

No, I did, in an attempt to convince you that simply cancelling a card does not mean the charges go away. Your card number isn't some random sequence of numbers, each group of digits means something. In the first 12 digits is a string that identifies you. If the first card is cancelled the company will create a charge using only the first twelve digits. The charges will go to the correct person, and then onto the card on that persons account.

preilly79

craichoe wrote: »

LOL .. How did you come to that conclusion

I've had a replacement twice and the first 12 digits were not the same in each case.

Scan your cards and post the photos and I'll tell you why

(oh, and I said generally speaking. that doesn't mean always)

onemorechance

preilly79 wrote: »

Most (who knows, maybe all?) rental agreements will say that the rental company reserves the right to pass on any charges you incur during the rental period. this includes parking fines, speeding fines etc. It's in the contract the OP signed.

A lot of very incorrect advice being passed around here.

And it seems that this is what they did, they passed the fine on to the guy, they did not deduct the money from his credit card.

GigaByte

preilly79 wrote: »

No, I did, in an attempt to convince you that simply cancelling a card does not mean the charges go away.

If his card has been charged, his card has been charged end of.

I'm saying if its not been charged yet and he cancelled it they won't be able to charge his credit card company. What rental car compainies normally do is put a pending charge onto your card and when you returned the car and all is ok, they release the charge. This stops people from trying to do a runner and cancel there card if they damage the car.



Give me your old credit card details and I'll try and take 10 euros off your card. You can post here and tell me you'll give me the go ahead. If I try to use your credit card, the transaction wil NOT go through.

If I ring the bank and say you've authorised it, IT WONT GO THROUGH!!!!!!

:rolleyes:

onemorechance

onemorechance wrote: »

You should probably pay the fine as a larger fine for not paying the first one on time is likely to follow. I received a speeding fine from Holland for a rental car. The fine was only about E15, but it stated the next fine would be E50 if the first fine was not paid by a certain time. After that court..

Any further fines or court summons etc should also make a quick trip from letter box to the bin.

edit: If the cc company rang me up asking to verify the transaction even though I had cancelled the card I would just say no and tell them to block the payment.

craichoe

preilly79 wrote: »

Scan your cards and post the photos and I'll tell you why

(oh, and I said generally speaking. that doesn't mean always)

You seem to have a very limited understanding of the system, since my card number only has 13 digits in it.

Its the first 6 digits that that identify the Type and Issuer, after that its an account number, followed by the last digit which is a checksum.

preilly79

craichoe wrote: »

You seem to have a very limited understanding of the system, since my card number only has 13 digits in it.

Its the first 6 digits that that identify the Type and Issuer, after that its an account number, followed by the last digit which is a checksum.

I know exactly what the number is made up of, including the checksum (aka Luhn, or mod10).

there are people here say that if a card is cancelled a charge cannot be made to it. That is incorrect.

There are different implementations, many issuers having their own numbering scheme, therefore number length is irrelevent (this is not a length contest ). the point i'm trying to make is that cancelling a card before a charge can be made does not prevent the person from receiving the charge. A quick call to BOI Card Services has just confirmed this.

GigaByte

preilly79 wrote: »

the point i'm trying to make is that cancelling a card before a charge can be made does not prevent the person from receiving the charge. A quick call to BOI Card Services has just confirmed this.

You're talking a load of bollock! In case anyone wants to check this out the number to call is below. If you cancel a credit card a new transaction cannot be put onto a new credit card once the number has changed. Only direct debits and pending payments will carry over!

BOI CARD SERVICES
MASTERCARD & VISA
Customer Services Tel: 1890 251 251


Just to confirm I've been just on the phone to them. If you even think about what preilly is saying is true, just think of the amount of fraud that would slip through!

Seth Brundle

Right I think this has gone off topic enough. It is supposed to be a motors forum!