Flatmate Problem

Cannibal Ox

I moved in with "Tom" and "John" a couple of months ago. I've known them both for around 5 years and we all get on pretty well. We have a problem with John. Around a year and a half ago John stopped going out and spent a lot of his time sitting around on his own smoking weed and watching tv. This was before I moved in with Tom and John, but the trend continued over to our new place.

Things have steadily gone down hill with John since we've all moved in together. He hates his job, he has family problems and (as far as I know) he's completely lost the ability to socialise with other people "normally". He doesn't/can't go out with people. He smokes a *lot* of weed. I think he easily spends around 200-300€ worth in a week. He doesn't eat properly. In the past two or three months he's started to drink on his own almost every day of the week. His working life is rapidly going down hill (being late all the time/not going in at all).

Tom and I have talked about his situation a couple of times. At first we thought we'd give him some time to work it out himself. We made the odd effort to engage with him over his problems and offer any help we could, but after a while it seemed pretty apparent that while he accepted he had problems, he wasn't willing/able to fix them.

I'm convinced he's depressed, but I'm not sure if that's a result of his family problems, the amount of weed he smokes or whether it's a combination of both. The drinking thing really worries me though. I suppose technically the weed should worry me more, but when your flatmate wanders into your bedroom stoned off his head at 2am in the morning it's not quite as worrying as him wandering in locked off his head at 2am in the morning.

Tom and I have come to the conclusion that we need to do something about John now, because we don't think he is capable of helping himself and things, in all likelihood, are going to keep escalating until he either kills himself from drinking or by other means. We are very worried about him, but we don't know what to do.

We could sit down with John and tell him what we think but we're both worried that this'll alienate him from us, the only two people he really talks to, and maybe convince him to do something stupid to himself. The other option we have is to talk to his parents, but we're not sure that will do any good because, as far as we know, they don't buy into the whole depression thing and they have absolutely no idea what John gets up to. As far as I know, they also aren't that informed about drugs.

I would like to sit down with John, Tom would rather talk to his parents. I'd really love some advice, because I don't want this to go on for much longer. Does anyone have any experience in this kind of situation? Should we talk to John? How do we talk to him about it? How do we start the conversation? Should we bypass John altogether, risk "stabbing him in the back", and tell his parents directly? How do we even start that conversation?

BuachaillAbroad

Hi

I had an experience with 2 guys like that when in college.

With the others in the house we had a sit down with the 2 & just tell them that if there was a problem then they can talk to us, not being locked in the room, to watch TV with us...first contact is best I think

What we used do was invite them out drinking but "subtlely" push them to come out: Get 1 of the girls to talk to them & they would both head out.

Unless you think its absolutely necessary, i wouldn't talk to the parents: do you know what their parents are like?
they could easily make the situation worst even if they are trying to help

Its 1 thing to have someone your own age talk to you about say, having a drug problem but completely different if your mother & father talked to you about it

Have a sitdown with him, tell him what you think & involve him in your socialising...best I can give

Good luck

Cannibal Ox

Thanks for the advice. One of the main problems is that he seems to be incapable of socialising. If you put a girl his age in a room with him, he'd be out of the room faster then she could say "hello". He's way beyond that stage, and I'm really quite worried about him.

jim o doom

It's fair enough to be worried about someone who doesn't socialise and drinks and smokes etc etc, especially as I find (to me and my mates anyways) that drinking a smoking weed are tribalistic & social things to do with friends, or to relax on ones own (but not constantly on ones own)..

Talk to him and see how he reacts to what you are saying, he may be depressed - however I VERY VERY strongly suggest you stay well away from his family; they may react in a hysterical fashion & "John" being an adult living on his own, they have therefore got no control over how he acts, and contacting them could well alienate him completely from them & also from both you and your other flatmate & create an even more depressing and potentially hostile situation..
The unfortunate thing is, you want to help, which I think is commendable, but going behind someones back, when they are not "abusing hard drugs" is a dangerous route to be taking.. the person in question might wonder why you think it's necessary to make their life decisions for them.. on that basis the only thing you can really do is talk to him about it, try and get him to come out socialise.. hell even sit on the couch and have a smoke with him, or a drink if smoking isn't your thing.
Also, make sure you never come off as holier than thou, patronising or fatherly/motherly/whatever, that will create a serious problem; as well if he instantly becomes defensive, leave it alone and try another time. I would suggest when he is starting to smoke, so he is still more mentally active, but in a passive mood as opposed to talking to him when he is totally baked as he will not be able to really comprehend what you are going on about.. (I'm a long time waster so I suggest just after the first full Jay/bong)

Hope that helps! (bit long winded though)

cantdecide

A close relative of mine is working through an uncannily similar situation. The family angle is a very subjective thing. My relative wasn't/ isn't prepared to let me help him. He just lashes out and treats me like a fool or a liar. His parents would have disowned him.

The weed thing is freaky because I've watched it ruin my relatives life. I didn't think it was possible with weed. He seriously created a world that wasn't worth living in unless he was stoned. Again, he just lashed out if he wasn't under the influence.

In your case, if you give him a mini intervention, he will probably not take things as they are intended as you are both 'ganging up' on him. I suggest, whichever one of you is closer to him should approach him on the pretense that you're both very worried about him and tell him the game is up. Later, you can let it be known that you're both there for him.

Evil-p

I think its really amazing that you care so much for your friend but clearly this situation cannot go on much longer.

I suggest one of you speak to him and tell him how concerned you are but show no judgement. Don't comment on how much dope he smokes or anything. Just say your worried bout him.

Then I suggest waiting a day or two and just have a chat to him about depression and explain to him that it is a chemical imbalance in the brain and like any other illness he needs to see the GP and get advice on how to deal with it. I reckon then you make a GP appointment for him and offer to go with him. When your depressed it feels like your trying to live underwater and everything is very muzzy and vague so he needs someone to intervene to make some good decisions for him.

If you manage to get him to the doctor I think that is a huge step but if all else fails I do think you should speak to his parents or an influential relatives. To a certain degree sometimes we all need to be "minded" and maybe this is outside the scope of flatmates! I have some experience of someone I care about overdoing it on drugs when they were low and it really is a viscous cycle!

Best of luck in helping your friend. He’s lucky to have people who care!

Craft25

Yeah I'd say speak directly to him, let him know you care about him, and that the way he's behaving; isolating himself, becoming resistant to people is not HIM, it doesn't have to be and its a rut he's gotten into...

let him know that theres no shame in reaching out and looking for help if theres things he needs to talk about, maybe give him examples where you've had to do it yourself or people you know.. just so he knows tis a stronger man that asks for what he needs than hides away..

at first he may completely blank you, eyes down and run away to his room.. but at least you've said it to him and it'll stay in his mind and might sink in later.. but dont badger him either cos then he'll feel theres nobody in the whole world he can relax around..

only go to his family if you think there may be an iminent threat he may harm himself or worse.

good luck and you are a good friend

Bottle_of_Smoke

Weed kind of makes doing nothing fun/bearable, so he might not be depressed at all - not that I'm saying its a healthy situation, but jsut be wary he'll be very hard to get through to if he feels content.

Don't go near the parents. Lots of likely horrendous outcomes and few unlikely positive ones.

I'd approach it from the drinking every day point of view. Stoners are very stubborn about weed(Iwas one myself) and there's lots of bullsh*t they can read on the internet that reassures them its completely harmless. When you smoke weed all the time you worry about it a little but once you have a joint in your mouth all that stress goes away. Keeps you apathetic, you only really worry about it when there's a drought on, and there's the bigger distraction of getting more weed.

I still think I'm a technically addicted to it, if only psychologically. Every time in dublin I smoke but going to college up north for most of the year. At my campus no one I know smokes and it doesn't bother me at all, but when around others who do it I'd always have a puff.

Unfortunately there's no simple answer. He'll have to stop doing it himself. The drinking's easier to tackle because most people in your/his circumstance see it as a big problem.

Try and get him out/girls over to the place. I think a girlfriend might be one thing that could help motivate him/curb his usage. He'll eventually meete one he's not afraid of.

Beruthiel

If he's smoking nearly €300 a week I'm not surprised he's unable to interact with others and isn't eating properly.
He's probably so out of it that making toast seems like a monumental task never mind trying to put a sentence together.

It might be easier to get him to talk one to one.
As has been suggested, talk to him after he's had his first J and basically approach it by saying "Listen John, I'm very worried about you. I want to help you in anyway I can. Can you talk to me"
Take it from there.

Weed is mentally addictive.
For a time, I loved having a couple after a days work. Then, after two weeks on holidays I came back and never touched it again.
All he needs to do is break the cycle.
But he needs help in getting back to reality and if there is stuff bothering him, he needs to get that off his chest.

Miss Fluff

Cannibal Ox wrote: »

He smokes a *lot* of weed. I think he easily spends around 200-300€ worth in a week.

Unless things have changed HUGELY since I were a bong loving hippie, €200-€300 a week on weed seems like a ridiculous amount. I mean how much is an ounce these days? Every single social problem this guy has could probably be attributed to the amount he is smoking and although the consenus seems to be that weed is not addictive, it certainly is psychologically. It can in some cases exacerbate any predisposition to the likes of schizophrenia etc and if he is in any depressed (as a consequence of it or not) it certainly own't help matters. It’s probably time one of you sat down with him and had a serious chat…..both of you is probably not a great idea, he’s probably paranoid enough as it is.

cantdecide

It wasn't hard for my relative to quit once he decided to. A few weeks away from it and he wouldn't touch it again. Just make sure he doesn't start taking alcohol more seriously instead.

Reflector

I've seen this happen to friends of mine but they got through it, you need to stick by him. I think engaging him is a good idea but do it in a friend way and just tell him flat out "you smoke too much"
Also keep him coming out as much as you can, always invite him out and bring him out for some midweek pints just the two of you is a good idea. Also if he hates his job talk to him about what else he might like to do if he sees that maybe he could change jobs or even career that might motivate him to sort himself out.

delop

yer good lads for looking out for him, and Im sure when he wakes up he will see that..

I have some experience with this, Mate of mine was doing all that and addicted to prescription drugs (zimovan i think) on top of it. He worked for a big bank and was making a mess in there when he went to work.

there was no solution, we tried to help him, his parents asked us to report back to them on both our efforts, final straw was he drew the guards on our house...

Now he is clean but addicted to photography now, spent thousands on equipment, it just seems that its his personality...

So if his is similar then you can help...

You got to try and get him stuck in something else

If I were you id volunteer for the St Vincent de Paul and get him to come with you. Ive often seen ppl who are pron to depression improve themselves by helping others. i.e if you cant help yourself then help others....

Kold

I think it's actually far too easy to get stuck in ruts like these. Then you get the usual "You're doing it to yourself", "You've only yourself to blame" comments and even if you don't... You know it yourself which is why it's so unwelcome when people do say it, it's hardly a fresh new view on the situation.


If you're really worried about your mate then what you can do is help him. More than what would be expected of you. Sit him down, make him question himself. Find out what actually makes him happy and why oh why is it so unobtainable? He'll probably be nervous at such an effort, afterall you'll be doing more than you really have to do. Just let him know that it's really hard to gain perspective using your head alone which is what weed forces you to do. Get him to stop smoking just for a couple of days, to understand that weed is all good a couple of nights a week but every night? He can't function like that!

The way to make a plan is to write it down. To try and have a goal and do what you can to achieve it. Once he has some idea of something he could do with his life that would make him hate it less get him to write what he realistically thinks he is capable of achieving in 5 years, don't let him undershoot either. Then get him to write down what he wants to have achieved in 1 year so that he's on his way to his 5 year plan. Do one for 6 months, 3 months, 1 month and 1 week and eventually what he'll do about it tomorrow.

It's important that he realises that you are just doing this because he's your mate and you care about him. Honestly, he's going to end up as a complete loser going the way he is. Drinking and smoking are social activities, what he's doing is numbing his disgust at his life. Sorry but that's not how problems are solved.