No joy on .22 pistol licence

kkelly77

Hello all,

I was just speaking to the firearms officer in Naas about whether I should or shouldn't put in an application for a .22 pistol.

Long story short, by all means put in for your licence but it won't be signed off by the Superintendent

I was told however that there should be no problem applying for a .22 rifle. Doesn't really help me when it was a Beretta 87 Target I was after.

K

It wasn't me!

Personally, I'd speak to the firearms dealer I want to do business with and arrange a refundable deposit (saves spending money whatever happens), and get a serial number and apply anyway. The refusal will be in writing, so you'll then have his reasons on paper for refusing. You can then arrange to meet the super and counter his objections, assuming they're not well-founded. If they are, you make changes along his recommendations and then talk to him again. The refusal, with reasons, in writing, would be my first step however.

kkelly77

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Personally, I'd speak to the firearms dealer I want to do business with and arrange a refundable deposit (saves spending money whatever happens), and get a serial number and apply anyway. The refusal will be in writing, so you'll then have his reasons on paper for refusing. You can then arrange to meet the super and counter his objections, assuming they're not well-founded. If they are, you make changes along his recommendations and then talk to him again. The refusal, with reasons, in writing, would be my first step however.

Good idea on the refundable deposit. It's simply a case of the whole illegal handguns issue that would be the grounds for refusal I was told, even .22 pistols. It's just bizarre that they would allow a .22 rifle and not a .22 pistol.

clivej

Sorry to hear that.
BUT is your Super the same man that was transfered from Kilkenny City not to long ago? If yes then do a search here for "223 not allowed here".
If it is then you will get a license for a scatter gun, 22lr or Hornet but not much else without going through the courts.

It wasn't me!

kkelly77 wrote: »

Good idea on the refundable deposit. It's simply a case of the whole illegal handguns issue that would be the grounds for refusal I was told, even .22 pistols. It's just bizarre that they would allow a .22 rifle and not a .22 pistol.

Well, the Minister's made allowances in all his statements for Olympic disciplines and equipment, so maybe consider a pistol better suited to Olympic pistol shooting? Something along the lines of a Browning Buckmark or a Hammerli Exesse would be good. I'd start by getting a written refusal anyway, personally. Best of luck.

gofaster_s13

clivej wrote: »

Sorry to hear that.
BUT is your Super the same man that was transfered from Kilkenny City not to long ago? If yes then do a search here for "223 not allowed here".
If it is then you will get a license for a scatter gun, 22lr or Hornet but not much else without going through the courts.

Yes its the same super, very anti firearms but the firearms officerts in Naas are a waste of time as well very unhelpful and prone to telling porky pies about applications

rrpc

kkelly77 wrote: »

Hello all,

I was just speaking to the firearms officer in Naas about whether I should or shouldn't put in an application for a .22 pistol.

Long story short, by all means put in for your licence but it won't be signed off by the Superintendent

It's not the first time I've heard this, and by not signing off the licence he's not refusing so there's nothing to appeal.

This is what I believe was the purpose of the Minister's statements: to create a limbo situation where nobody will do anything and de facto create a ban without him having to lift a finger and actually write any legislation. :mad:

gofaster_s13

rrpc wrote: »

It's not the first time I've heard this, and by not signing off the licence he's not refusing so there's nothing to appeal.

This is what I believe was the purpose of the Minister's statements: to create a limbo situation where nobody will do anything and de facto create a ban without him having to lift a finger and actually write any legislation. :mad:

Wait and see, supers are going to start doing this to rifles, shotguns etc just because they feel like it and they know the courts are going to back them up because guns legal or otherwise are being painted as evil !!

rrpc

gofaster_s13 wrote: »

Wait and see, supers are going to start doing this to rifles, shotguns etc just because they feel like it and they know the courts are going to back them up because guns legal or otherwise are being painted as evil !!

I think that's a bit of a leap since the Minister only referred to pistols in his statements. The courts don't come in to this because under current legislation the Super can delay issuing a licence as long as he wants and as it's not a refusal, there's nothing to appeal.

That is until section 30 of the CJA 2006 is commenced when there's a three month time limit imposed on decision making. Then you can appeal to the district court.

So this limbo situation has a finite lifespan.

Sparks

kkelly77 wrote: »

Hello all,
I was just speaking to the firearms officer in Naas about whether I should or shouldn't put in an application for a .22 pistol.
Long story short, by all means put in for your licence but it won't be signed off by the Superintendent

Long answer shorter, the Superintendent in charge of implementing the changes in the Firearms Act (Noel Clarke) has specifically said that when that happens, you are meant to say "thank you very much, but submit it anyway" because the firearms officer does not make the call and shouldn't be doing so.

Besides, you can't appeal a refusal if you never submit in the first place!

gofaster_s13

rrpc wrote: »

I think that's a bit of a leap since the Minister only referred to pistols in his statements. The courts don't come in to this because under current legislation the Super can delay issuing a licence as long as he wants and as it's not a refusal, there's nothing to appeal.

That is until section 30 of the CJA 2006 is commenced when there's a three month time limit imposed on decision making. Then you can appeal to the district court.

So this limbo situation has a finite lifespan.

It is a bit of a leap but the super in Naas will not grant licences for anything bigger than .22 hornet even though there is nothing to say that you can't have a .223 and how long before someone challanges him in court and the gun culture/public safety argument comes up. All it will take is one ruling against and a precedent has been set. At the end of the day there is not one politician who really cares about our sport

rrpc

gofaster_s13 wrote: »

It is a bit of a leap but the super in Naas will not grant licences for anything bigger than .22 hornet even though there is nothing to say that you can't have a .223 and how long before someone challanges him in court and the gun culture/public safety argument comes up. All it will take is one ruling against and a precedent has been set. At the end of the day there is not one politician who really cares about our sport

Precedents have already been set, and the last time I looked we still have a firearms act that specifies what grounds you can refuse on.

Providing the Super in Naas is refusing on proper grounds then he's within his rights, if not the courts will ask him to review his decision.

gofaster_s13

rrpc wrote: »

Precedents have already been set, and the last time I looked we still have a firearms act that specifies what grounds you can refuse on.

Providing the Super in Naas is refusing on proper grounds then he's within his rights, if not the courts will ask him to review his decision.

What about the court in Donegal refusing to grant a handgun license ??

rrpc

gofaster_s13 wrote: »

What about the court in Donegal refusing to grant a handgun license ??

Well firstly courts don't grant licences, they just request the Super review his decision on the basis that his first decision was not in accordance with the law.

The court in Donegal upheld the Super's decision that it was not in the interest of the public safety, security or the peace.

gofaster_s13

And the same thing was said about any rifle over .22-250 for a long time and its not outside the realms of possibility that a judge could say the same thing about a .308 "sniper" rifle !!

rrpc

gofaster_s13 wrote: »

And the same thing was said about any rifle over .22-250 for a long time and its not outside the realms of possibility that a judge could say the same thing about a .308 "sniper" rifle !!

No, it's not (but that doesn't make it legal) and by the way, that was a district court judge in Donegal who's judgment would have been laughed at in he high court if it had gone there. This is the guy who said that there was 'bandit country' between Donegal and Cork ffs.

What's already in law and has been upheld by Judge Harding-Clark in the High Court is that the person is licensed and not the firearm.

Refusals can no longer be made on the basis of 'I don't like them' or 'It's a military round'. If the applicant is approved and they have demonstrated 'good reason' then the type of firearm has no bearing on whether the licence is granted or not.