Is the compact disc dying?

the_barfly1

I feel that this discussion needs some serious input!

The day after stephen's day, i (as any guy who is taking part in monogamy) was hounded, nagged and pressured by my significant other to take the trip up to Dundrum for "The Sales". I held out for quite a while, but finally, under protest and duress, I finally had to concede and commenced the journey up the M7 and then down to exit 12 of the M50.

Now, these shopping days usually consist of herself spending hours in the boutiques, while i spend hours going through every CD in the closest record store, in the hope of finding some sort of gem to add to my music collection.

Well, on December 28th, 2008, it appeared that my worst nightmare was beginning to unfold.

A lot of people already know that the only record store in Dundrum Shopping Centre is Zavvi, formerly a Virgin Megastore, and they usually have a pretty decent collection of music, and the majority of this is usually pretty competitively priced, a nice little hideaway for any muso's who wish to disappear for a while.

However, panic quickly set in as I crossed the threshold of the store, asides from a "Top 30 (ugh)" stand on my right and a small "Bargain CD" stand, i found myself in over my head in a sea of DVD Videos..... Gone were the racks upon racks of Compact Discs. I was feeling desperate.
I continued to wade through this sea of light entertainment until i eventually found an incline upon which i found some (albeit quite small and limited) salvation.

Yes, the once neverending music section of the store had now been condensed and squeezed into the old DVD section. Why?
I looked on in horror as i saw such atrocities as "pop party 6" being on sale in the Metal section, and a Vinyl section no bigger than an old school desk.


Which led me to ponder... Are we letting music die? More specifically, has laziness taken over when it comes to somebody choosing what to listen to?

People are downloading more and more music these days, which I am guessing explains the horrible adjustment in the layout of many record stores all over, and the massive losses facing these same record stores.

For what? A sh1tty, tinny sounding audio file on your laptop or iPod?
Or do the majority of you even realise the obvious discrepencies between what comes out of your laptop speakers and your crisp clear Compact Disc being played through a proper Hi-Fi sytem?

Are people really happy to substitute their collections of artwork, lyrics sheets and photography for ID3 tags?

We can't let the CD die, its the only high fidelity source of audio we have left. I don't see iTunes queuing up to provide .wav files to its customers for download.

What are everybodys views on this?

Does anybody still want to be able to buy music as a product that they can interact with in more than just one way, via artwork and packaging, and TRUE high quality sound,
or
Are you happy to purchase a lesser, compressed, low grade audio product, for the same (or often higher) price, for the mere convenience factor?

Thoughts?



PS - I'd appreciate if a techie could illustrate my audio quality point by posting links to both .wav and .mp3 clips of the same sound, if possible

craiginireland

I haven't bought a CD in years and I don't regret it. Well maybe just for the artwork.

The way the industry and economy is changing CD's will become the vinyl of today. It costs nothing to upload a song onto i-tunes. Compare that to the cost of: replicating CD's, Printing Artwork, Packing, Delivery of CD's from manufactorer to Distributor, Then again from Distributor to Retail, The cost of someone standing there and selling your CD to Joe Public.

Zavvi will go more towards Games and DVD's because people can't download them easily so have to buy hardcopy if they want to have it. It's sad but apart from a couple of the larger independents I can't see how the traditional record stores of old are going to survive. It'll all be games and DVD. In fact it wouldnt surprise me if there was a takeover of Zavvi by xtra vision or chartbusters or someone else looking to get in the market from abroad.

the_barfly1

craiginireland wrote: »

The way the industry and economy is changing CD's will become the vinyl of today. It costs nothing to upload a song onto i-tunes. Compare that to the cost of: replicating CD's, Printing Artwork, Packing, Delivery of CD's from manufactorer to Distributor, Then again from Distributor to Retail, The cost of someone standing there and selling your CD to Joe Public.

From your points i get the impression that you're either involved in the music industry or a musician like myself?
Does the audio quality of mp3's not bother you?

I know myself from listening to my music in its pure recorded form on proper studio monitors, then having to compress it to mp3 for internet streaming purposes, i almost feel dirty because so much of the little nuances in the sound are lost!

Hagar

I don't miss the little details in sound when driving. Road noise/engine noise cancels out a lot of the detail anyway. Also I don't play my music too loud so that I am still in touch with my surroundings fo safety reasons. At home I would much rather listen to the mellow sound on a good vinyl but I can't be bothered spending the money on such a fragile medium any more. No matter how careful I am wear&tear/damage occurs over time. I've lost count of the number of vinyls I've consigned to the bin due to hissing and scatches. It's financially better to replace them on digital media as they deteriorate.

Doctor J

I think you're reading a bit too much into the Zavvi thing. My understanding is that a lot of their stock came from Woolworths, certainly in the UK, and it might be more to do with problems stemming from that.

On a whole, all music sales are down. It has become easy to steal music and, sadly, a lot of folks have the scruples of a rat, although stealing is too offensive a term, it's called "downloading". Couple that with some truly inept management from the biz and you've a recipie for disaster. It's harder to steal games and dvds (ok, maybe not harder but an 80mb album is a lot more discreet than a 2gb movie or game).

I don't think the likes of itunes or any downloading service will eradicate the CD. All it takes is one hard disk failure for someone to cop on to the fact that a physical copy is a good thing, plus 128k mp3 sounds like **** too.

For these reasons, I can see the CD being around for another while yet.

stovelid

Almost ashamed to admit it, as a past vinyl/cd obsessive, but whenever I want to play single tracks these days, it feels so time-consuming using individual CDs, compared to clicking through a laptop or MP3 player.

ZakAttak

In the future I think bands will offer their music to downlaod for free, but if you pay a little extra they might send a hard copy out to you. Or they might, as part of an offer, send you some clips to download or something like that.

C.D.s will of course, eventually go.

The quality of sound from an mp3 mightn't be good, but I think this compensated by the fact that they're cheap, light, easy to use etc.

Doctor J

Given how quickly the price of storage is coming down and with increasing connection speeds too, I'd wager the mp3 is consigned to the bin before the cd is. Lossless ftw

craiginireland

the_barfly1 wrote: »

From your points i get the impression that you're either involved in the music industry or a musician like myself?
Does the audio quality of mp3's not bother you?

I know myself from listening to my music in its pure recorded form on proper studio monitors, then having to compress it to mp3 for internet streaming purposes, i almost feel dirty because so much of the little nuances in the sound are lost!

I'm involved in music from both ends and to be honest I don't listen to my music on studio stereo's. The diffirence in quality would only be noticed by people who go looking for it. You'll notice it because, no doubt, you go through it with a fine comb but the majority of laypeople won't care.

Mushy

craiginireland wrote: »

I'm involved in music from both ends and to be honest I don't listen to my music on studio stereo's. The diffirence in quality would only be noticed by people who go looking for it. You'll notice it because, no doubt, you go through it with a fine comb but the majority of laypeople won't care.

As much as I don't like to say it, this would be true. I wouldn't know the difference too much between a download and a cd. In saying that, I still don't download albums, I always buy them, and that often times is the case even if the copy I have has been ripped from another friends cd, so I end up with two copies.

So yeah, boo to downloading, regardless of differences in sound quality.

Panda

yes.

and because of it a ****load of waste wont end up in the landfills too.

will this catch on?:

http://www.gigwise.com/news/38029/rolling-stones-to-release-new-album-on-usb-card

http://www.getusb.info/category/usb-music-album/

probably not...
digital is the future!

Kold

Download higher quality. Ironically you'll find higher quality from torrents than iTunes. I buy CDs when I think it's worth it. But Is my 80gig music library (I delete what I don't listen to) worth the several thousand that record companies would have me pay for it? God no. It's f*cking music. The CD isn't dying. We're not killing music, we're trying to kill the rip off merchants that hold us at a ransom.

Music doesn't need to come in individual packages any more, despite reduced CD sales musicians can still make a living. I pay to go to a lot of gigs (not of a certain promoter though, extortionate prices be handled like cattle? No thanks.) As a visual artist, it's not like our heyday of money making hasn't long gone but is painting dead? No. Hopefully less people will make sh*t music now with the ambition of making huge sums of money although I don't reckon that'll be the case. There are still a lot of sh*t painters about.

So anyway, €24 for a 50 minute album that was rushed out because the label rushed the artists? F*ck that. I'd rather give the artist €5 straight up for the download. More and more artists are doing the Radiohead thing now and that's the future of music imo. Radiohead sold several thousand discboxes with In Rainbows (I bought one), I'm pretty sure NiN sold out their special edition Ghosts albums.

the_barfly1

Panda wrote: »

will this catch on?:

http://www.gigwise.com/news/38029/rolling-stones-to-release-new-album-on-usb-card

http://www.getusb.info/category/usb-music-album/

Already been done, Johnny at Downloadmusic.ie already released a USB compilation album earlier this year.

Personally I enjoy all the trappings of a brand new CD, even down to the smell of the freshly printed sleeve!..... Heaven

Nailz

This might be an odd thing to say this early in the life of the MP3 & Digital Download, but it will die too, perhaps on the same time scale as the CD, or maybe longer, and replaced by God knows what?! And will we miss it? I don't know, I assume so, same as CD and Vinyl. What I'm saying is; everything will be replaced something else, same with everything else in life, people will be replaced with more people, girlfriends/boyfriends, cars, homes, nature, technology - it's evolution. The moral of the story is, get over it, sure you have sentiment with the old Vinyls, but now CD's can be of sentiment, and later Downloads. I had to come, and the cycle will never end, you may aswell get on the banwaggon. Thanks to Mr. Nabsters easy to share MP3 service and Lars Ulrich's oxymoronic whinging which turned to publicity, for this new one..

Rigsby

the_barfly1 wrote: »

Personally I enjoy all the trappings of a brand new CD, even down to the smell of the freshly printed sleeve!..... Heaven

I think this is an important point that has been overlooked so far in this thread. While we are probably in the minority, I, like the original poster used to love spending time browsing physical cd's and vinyl ( which seems to be making a come back here BTW. It never really disappeared in Britain ).

Maybe I'm just an old dinosaur , but apart from the sound quality, you just cant beat the feel, smell and look of a cd or LP.

JerryHandbag

As a CD-shopaholic buying freak I would be very sad to see them go, hope its not for a long time yet. I like the idea of havin something physical - the actual CD, case and artwork....an mp3 is just a file located on a computer, and like the OP said, a collection of ID3 tags.

I do have an ipod with all my CDs converted to mp3 format, really only for ease of use in the car, but if I had to choose one format to die out, it would have to be the mp3...call me an old romantic!!..probably the way ppl felt about vinyl too...

I like to think that when you buy a CD a certain cut goes to the artists, but when you illegally download it youre giving 2 fingers to the artists by ensuring they get diddly squat. So I like to 'support' my fave artists by forking out for their music

JeanH

Barfly, JerryHandbag, Rigsby - love your posts

Well I'm defo not a dinosaur but we would be in the minority in loving our CDs. I don't know anyone really of my generation who feels for CDs like older uns might feel for vinyl. I know I do though plus I still love my clapped out cassettes even if they hiss and fade in and out and sometimes refuse to play...

'Course it'd be convenient to just download it now but I like going outside the door, I like the anticipation, I like coming home flopping onto the bed, turning up the volume on my 1996 CD player and blasting it through the room, looking through the booklet.

I'll still catch a song on the radio as I'm drifting to sleep, I'll scribble down some of the words, next day I'll find out the song and I could sometimes have to wait 5 weeks til I get the chance to get to Dublin and purchase it. All those five weeks humming the little pieces of the song that I can remember, actually constructing my own song because when I purchase the thing I usually find I've remembered it wrong! But that's great.

The new Moz album is up for illegal download already. I've refused to even listen because to me the release date is Feb and that's that. I'll go and buy the CD when it's out.

Maybe it is about whether you want to listen on the run or give it proper attention. No matter what, how busy with double jobbing or whatever I will give music the time. Might explain my being constantly knackered but I'll give it the time I think it deserves.

KerranJast

I prefer MP3 tbh. FLAC is best but 320kbps MP3 is indistinguishable from a CD. I prefer knowing that a bigger chunk of my cash is going directly to the artist who in turn pays the sound engineers, producers etc rather than relying on some fat cat label execs to dole out the profit piecemeal. Plus MP3 makes sharing music easier. I wouldn't have as good or varied a taste in music today if I didn't have access to Napster back in the day. In turn I've gone to many concerts and bought legit copies of music which I would never otherwise have done.

Kintarō Hattori

the_barfly1 wrote: »

People are downloading more and more music these days, which I am guessing explains the horrible adjustment in the layout of many record stores all over, and the massive losses facing these same record stores.

For what? A sh1tty, tinny sounding audio file on your laptop or iPod?
Or do the majority of you even realise the obvious discrepencies between what comes out of your laptop speakers and your crisp clear Compact Disc being played through a proper Hi-Fi sytem?

I was enjoying your post until I got to the part above. You've just insulted the majority of people who read your post. You've assumed that they/we/me don't appreciate good music on a good system and are simply happy to listen to any auld cack on a crap system.

That part of your post has to me at least come across as being a little smug.

JerryHandbag

JeanH wrote: »

'Course it'd be convenient to just download it now but I like going outside the door, I like the anticipation, I like coming home flopping onto the bed, turning up the volume on my 1996 CD player and blasting it through the room, looking through the booklet.

Youve summed up exactly why I still buy CDs. Nice one!

KerranJast

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

I was enjoying your post until I got to the part above. You've just insulted the majority of people who read your post. You've assumed that they/we/me don't appreciate good music on a good system and are simply happy to listen to any auld cack on a crap system.

That part of your post has to me at least come across as being a little smug.

Agreed. Shock horror people listen to MP3s on proper audio equipment.

mike65

craiginireland wrote: »

I haven't bought a CD in years and I don't regret it. Well maybe just for the artwork.

Now that made me laugh! Kids eh?

Doctor J

KerranJast wrote: »

I prefer knowing that a bigger chunk of my cash is going directly to the artist who in turn pays the sound engineers, producers etc rather than relying on some fat cat label execs to dole out the profit piecemeal.

That's not how it works at all. The artist gets an advance, essentially a loan, from the label the purpose of which is to pay the studio, the engineers and the producer's fee - ie the cost of recording. They get the same amount of money no matter how much the music sells or doesn't sell, or regardless of what format it's sold as. If the producer has points he'll get a royalty based on sales in addition to his fee. Once the amount recouped from sales exceeds the advance and the advance has been repaid, the band gets paid too. If the band are stupid and blow their advance they don't get paid again until they're back in credit, it's tough **** for them, which is fair, wouldn't you agree? If their album doesn't sell they don't get paid again either, which is also fair, no? Of course, they also don't get paid when folks steal their music. It's like any other loan, like a mortgage, it needs to be paid back. Nobody forces bands to sign recording contracts. If they're not idiots they read the terms of the contract and if they agree with the terms they sign the contract. So when you see a CD on a shelf they're saying they're happy with the process which lead to their music being recorded and released. All this poor-mouth ****e about fat cat label execs is getting old. When you sign up to play the game you play by the rules of the game. If you don't like the rules, don't sign up for it.

Funnily enough, less money is going to engineers and studios now because labels aren't giving out big advances anymore, because there's so much thieving going on it's harder to recoup the loan. Independent bands generally don't have the capital to hand to afford top studios, engineers and producers who need to get paid straight away for their work.

Oh yeah, don't think itunes and the like haven't got their own set of terms which are just as lopsided as what went on in the past with labels. Bands get just as screwed through legal downloading as they did with selling CDs.

the_barfly1

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

I was enjoying your post until I got to the part above. You've just insulted the majority of people who read your post. You've assumed that they/we/me don't appreciate good music on a good system and are simply happy to listen to any auld cack on a crap system.

That part of your post has to me at least come across as being a little smug.

Apologies if i appeared to be causing any offence here. It wasn't my intention at all. I was only speaking from experience amongst my own friends, who, from time to time put on some really lo-fi mp3's, which, when i hear it becomes almost painful for me because of the poor sound quality! My basis for saying "the majority" was based on a cross section of my personal friends and relatives who never seem to notice the difference until its pointed out to them!


And to the guy who says that some people listen to mp3's on proper audio equipment - from my own experience - if its a poor quality audio file it'll still sound horrendous no matter what type of equipment you're playing it on! Perhaps even worse if you've got some really good speakers!

HalloweenJack

I always buy CDs. I know that if I went for the downloading option, I'd only buy songs I know. Buying CDs is the only way I'll ever hear entire albums.

Rigsby

JeanH wrote: »

I like going outside the door, I like the anticipation, I like coming home flopping onto the bed, turning up the volume on my 1996 CD player and blasting it through the room

Describes me to a tee ! except my cd player is even older.......... and as for my vinyl player...........

mike65

the_barfly1 wrote: »

And to the guy who says that some people listen to mp3's on proper audio equipment - from my own experience - if its a poor quality audio file it'll still sound horrendous no matter what type of equipment you're playing it on! Perhaps even worse if you've got some really good speakers!

garbage in = garbage out, no matter what the medium.

I don't have huge problem with mp3 format for the most part, even within this "compromised" format there are good and bad files.

KerranJast

mike65 wrote: »

garbage in = garbage out, no matter what the medium.

I don't have huge problem with mp3 format for the most part, even within this "compromised" format there are good and bad files.

Yeah anyone stupid enough to listen to low bitrate MP3s on anything deserves what they get. Like I said before though 320Kbps MP3 or FLAC is indistinguishable from a CD. Unless you're a dog or have superhuman hearing abilities way beyond the capabilities of the human eardrum then you shouldn't notice a difference.

Rigsby

In fairness, while I never listen to mp3's, I can understand why people might listen to them for handiness' sake, while out and about. For me though the "fidelity" in "Hi Fi" is best acheived by a cd or LP played on a good system.

inforfun

Rigsby wrote: »

Describes me to a tee ! except my cd player is even older.......... and as for my vinyl player...........

My frontloader

Still going strong.

Setun

There's more of a sense of ownership when you own a physical format imo. I like having a visual collection of vinyl or cd - it's a collector's hobby as well as a love for music. I am also of the persuasion that if an album is a masterpiece, it includes the sleeve design, liner notes, and the actual audio. I do own mp3s but they're on an external hard drive in my room, and they wouldn't be played as much as my cd or record collection.

BTW I think the new 2-tier iTunes could cause some final damage to the cd. They're all DRM free and I think that the more expensive songs will be full cd quality.

loyatemu

the CD is doomed as a mass format - it'll probably cling on in small numbers like vinyl but the vast majority of music will be download within 5 years.

I buy my music wherever it is cheapest - until recently that was generally still on CD but cheaper downloads and the advent of subscription services mean I probably won't buy many more actual disks. I listen to the vast majority of my music on the Dart or in the car where the poorer sound quality of mp3s isn't really noticeable, but people in general aren't interested in sound quality above a certain level anyway - convenience wins every time... (thats why cassettes were so successful).