Speaking of the Navan Line...

Ham'nd'egger

http://www.irishrail.ie/news_centre/news.asp?action=view&news_id=458

Route Options for Navan line to go on display: 13th-14th January 2009 by Navan Railway line Project Office

Iarnród Éireann is currently examining route options for Phase 2 of the Navan Railway line.

As part of this process, the company will host two public consultation evenings on Tuesday 13th and Wednesday 14th January next to consult with the public on the proposed alignment and station locations. The development and construction of the line is a key part of the Government-funded Transport 21 programme.

The project involves the extension of the currently under construction Phase 1 Navan Railway line, between Clonsilla and Pace, onwards to the north edge of Navan.

The public consultation evenings will be held at

Dunshaughlin Area Offices, (One Stop Shop) between 5pm and 8pm on Tuesday 13th January

Navan Arts Centre (Solstice) on Wednesday 14th January from 5pm to 8pm.

The public consultation evenings will be attended by Iarnród Éireann project personnel, who will be available to discuss the project and answer any queries.

The proposed scheme consists of:

• Extension of the currently under construction Navan Phase 1 (Clonsilla – Pace Project).

• The provision of 34km approximately of double track, including other infrastructure such as signalling and bridge works.

• Four Stations in total are proposed as part of the project at Dunshaughlin, Kilmessan, Navan Town Centre, and a terminus station at the north edge of Navan

Two route options will be on display for members of the public to consider:

- An alignment largely in keeping with the historic Navan rail alignment, with minor alterations

- A second alignment which would be altered to run closer to the town of Dunshaughlin

Phase 1 of the Navan rail project is now under construction. Works commenced on the provision of 7.5km of track between Clonsilla and Dunboyne with stations at Hansfield, Dunboyne and a major park and ride facility at Pace, at the interchange with the M3 in December of 2008.
The project is due to be completed in 2010 with a journey time of 30 minutes from Pace to Docklands.

This is the first major opportunity for the community who will directly benefit from the reinstatement of the line to see the proposed plans and offer opinions on the project. Views expressed during public consultation will be central to final decisions on route selection and station locations.
Therefore we urge as many people as possible to attend these public consultation evenings.

However, those who are unable to attend can also make submissions to: navan@irishrail.ie or in writing to:

Phase 2 Navan Railway line Project Office,

Iarnród Éireann,

Track and Signals HQ,

Inchicore,

Dublin 8

dowlingm

Does the Navan line need to be double track all the way? Midleton seems to be deemed adequate with single plus station loops. I suppose it's better to get it out of the way now rather than have the IE geniuses build the single down the middle of the alignment (see Galway-Oranmore)

Ham'nd'egger

dowlingm wrote: »

Does the Navan line need to be double track all the way? Midleton seems to be deemed adequate with single plus station loops. I suppose it's better to get it out of the way now rather than have the IE geniuses build the single down the middle of the alignment (see Galway-Oranmore)

As the intended service is to be every 15 minutes each way peak time , the traffic will need two tracks to ensure capacity then. Given the numerous stations en route and lower train frequencies on the line, Galway services can cross on the single line with few delays.

Zebra3

dowlingm wrote: »

Does the Navan line need to be double track all the way?

Ffs, do it and do it right!!!!!

Victor

Theres an election coming!

http://www.irishrail.ie/news_centre/news.asp?action=view&news_id=458

Route Options for Navan line to go on display: 13th-14th January 2009 by Navan Railway line Project Office

Iarnród Éireann is currently examining route options for Phase 2 of the Navan Railway line.

As part of this process, the company will host two public consultation evenings on Tuesday 13th and Wednesday 14th January next to consult with the public on the proposed alignment and station locations.

The development and construction of the line is a key part of the Government-funded Transport 21 programme.

The project involves the extension of the currently under construction Phase 1 Navan Railway line, between Clonsilla and Pace, onwards to the north edge of Navan.

The public consultation evenings will be held at

Dunshaughlin Area Offices, (One Stop Shop) between 5pm and 8pm on Tuesday 13th January

Navan Arts Centre (Solstice) on Wednesday 14th January from 5pm to 8pm.

The public consultation evenings will be attended by Iarnród Éireann project personnel, who will be available to discuss the project and answer any queries.

The proposed scheme consists of:

• Extension of the currently under construction Navan Phase 1 (Clonsilla – Pace Project).

• The provision of 34km approximately of double track, including other infrastructure such as signalling and bridge works.

• Four Stations in total are proposed as part of the project at Dunshaughlin, Kilmessan, Navan Town Centre, and a terminus station at the north edge of Navan

Two route options will be on display for members of the public to consider:

- An alignment largely in keeping with the historic Navan rail alignment, with minor alterations

- A second alignment which would be altered to run closer to the town of Dunshaughlin

Phase 1 of the Navan rail project is now under construction. Works commenced on the provision of 7.5km of track between Clonsilla and Dunboyne with stations at Hansfield, Dunboyne and a major park and ride facility at Pace, at the interchange with the M3 in December of 2008.

The project is due to be completed in 2010 with a journey time of 30 minutes from Pace to Docklands.

This is the first major opportunity for the community who will directly benefit from the reinstatement of the line to see the proposed plans and offer opinions on the project. Views expressed during public consultation will be central to final decisions on route selection and station locations.

Therefore we urge as many people as possible to attend these public consultation evenings.

However, those who are unable to attend can also make submissions to: navan@irishrail.ie or in writing to:

Phase 2 Navan Railway line Project Office,
Iarnród Éireann,
Track and Signals HQ,
Inchicore,
Dublin 8

IIMII

Victor wrote: »

Theres an election coming!

Yup.

We may at least see an alignment finally selected and protected. And hopefully that daft and costly project-suicidal proposal to run the line east of Dunshaughlin has been dropped.

Victor

Actual drawings.

http://www.irishrail.ie/projects/navan_railway_line.asp

Phase 2 Navan Railway Line – Pace to Navan

Iarnród Éireann is currently examining route options for Phase 2 of the Navan Railway line.

As part of this process, the company will host two public consultation evenings on Tuesday 13th and Wednesday 14th January next to consult with the public on the proposed alignment and station locations.

The development and construction of the line is a key part of the Government-funded Transport 21 programme.

The project involves the extension of the currently under construction Phase 1 Navan Railway line, between Clonsilla and Pace, onwards to the north edge of Navan.

The public consultation evenings will be held at:

Dunshaughlin Area Offices, (One Stop Shop) between 5pm and 8pm on Tuesday 13th January

Navan Arts Centre (Solstice) on Wednesday 14th January from 5pm to 8pm.

The public consultation evenings will be attended by Iarnród Éireann project personnel, who will be available to discuss the project and answer any queries.

The proposed scheme consists of:

* Extension of the currently under construction Navan Phase 1 (Clonsilla – Pace Project).
* The provision of 34km approximately of double track, including other infrastructure such as signalling and bridge works.
* Four Stations in total are proposed as part of the project at Dunshaughlin, Kilmessan, Navan Town Centre, and a terminus station at the north edge of Navan

Two route options will be on display for members of the public to consider:

* An alignment largely in keeping with the historic Navan rail alignment, with minor alterations
* A second alignment which would be altered to run closer to the town of Dunshaughlin

Phase 1 of the Navan rail project is now under construction. Works commenced on the provision of 7.5km of track between Clonsilla and Dunboyne with stations at Hansfield, Dunboyne and a major park and ride facility at Pace, at the interchange with the M3 in December of 2008.

The project is due to be completed in 2010 with a journey time of 30 minutes from Pace to Docklands.

This is the first major opportunity for the community who will directly benefit from the reinstatement of the line to see the proposed plans and offer opinions on the project. Views expressed during public consultation will be central to final decisions on route selection and station locations.

Therefore we urge as many people as possible to attend these public consultation evenings.

However, those who are unable to attend can also make submissions to: navan@irishrail.ie or in writing to:

Phase 2 Navan Railway line Project Office,
Iarnród Éireann,
Track and Signals HQ,
Inchicore,
Dublin 8

Navan Railway Line Documentation.
Dart Underground Drawings
Route Alignment Options
Dunshaughlin Station option 2
Dunshaughlin Station option 1
Navan Central option
Navan North option
Consultation questionnaire
Navan Leaflet reduced
Potential station Kilmessan
Standard Station Layout
Standard Station Layout 2

IIMII

Would you belive that's the first time that they (any of them - CIÉ, Transport etc) have even released a map of the old alignment?

Amazing that even though we have had map making as a technology for millennia, this simple map still feels like some vague form of progress

IIMII

Interesting.. Navan central is now back on the Trim road, and Navan north is on the northly side of the Blackwater near the Aura Leisurelink on the Kingscourt line. Previously Navan central was being talked about as being nearer the former station site on the junction, and the Navan north station being place on the Tara Mines site beside the N3 (Kells commuters etc)

Hopefully they aren't serious about the Dunshaughlin easterly route - virtually all of the developments in Dunshaughlin are on the west side. Plus they have brought the alignment in tight to the M3 on the westerly side

SeanW

Does anyone seriously believe this is anything other than a publicity stunt?

Stroke Politics

IIMII wrote: »

Would you belive that's the first time that they (any of them - CIÉ, Transport etc) have even released a map of the old alignment?

Amazing that even though we have had map making as a technology for millennia, this simple map still feels like some vague form of progress

It's exciting to see it for the first time!

The proposed Navan Central station would be 5 mins from my house, and the Navan North seems to be up beside the Leisurelink centre?

A few initial observations:

- Faithfully observes the previous route into Navan

- The existing station remains in place, and the new route comes across the road, rather than over it, as previously;

- Navan Central Station is proposed to go in at the former Murray's Steel site. This is owned by one of the Duignan/McCarthy property development companies, (Big House) which has bought up most of the adjoining properties (including the pitch & putt course) with the expressed intention of developing a massive shopping centre. This will be resisted strongly by these developers, there is no way they will incorporate it into their plans for the massive land bank they own there, unless they get their own way elsewhere on the alignment;

- Hard to see this location being accessible from Johnstown;

- Parking at Navan central seems limited; will Big House have control of this with their proposed S.C. parking?

- I think as associated company may have land up towards the proposed new Navan North station?

- There's no point deviating to the east of Dunshaughlin, when the majority of the population, services and businesses are located to the west of the town. Developers probably own a large land bank to the east of Dunshaughlin;

No doubt, this will get bogged down in a legal quagmire to obfuscate and delay the project. I have no doubt that the Dunshaughlin deviationwill be inextricably linked with the €700m shopping centre site on the Trim Road. The compromise that I think we will se will be like what happened at the Phoenix Park station, developer built with control ofg parking revenues remaining with them.

Any thoughts?

Stroke Politics

SeanW wrote: »

Does anyone seriously believe this is anything other than a publicity stunt?

If it is, it's a very expensive one....

Colm R

Victor wrote: »

Theres an election coming!

Indeed. I'm afraid there is nothing to get excited about here. Navan will get plenty of coverage between now and June, and then no mention thereafter until January 2012.

orlaithd

Stroke Politics wrote: »

- There's no point deviating to the east of Dunshaughlin, when the majority of the population, services and businesses are located to the west of the town. Developers probably own a large land bank to the east of Dunshaughlin;

Any thoughts?

The easterly option actually stops in Dunshaughlin- the Pink option stops in Drumree- Close to the Trim Road and not accessible to Dunshaughlin for commuters without either a feeder bus from the village or driving the car to there. Therefore in this sense the Blue option (east of Dunshaughlin) would be a runner as it actually serves Dunshaughlin- the pink does not.

However the easterly route goes through Lagore- which was an option originally for the M3 but was dismissed early on as this is a "Green Belt" with historical significance due to the Crannog so this will likely be a possible reason to dismiss it this time around too.

IIMII

Colm R wrote: »

Indeed. I'm afraid there is nothing to get excited about here. Navan will get plenty of coverage between now and June, and then no mention thereafter until January 2012.

Very likely. The only really new thing here is that they have produced a map. And they are still getting milleage from the Dunshaughlin deviation, which forms a great excuse to drag heels. It'd say it'll more likely be November 2011 before we hear more as part of the Transport 31 plan.

Unless, that is, the Greens have pushed it forward. Which I doubt, as it doesn't incorporate a farmers market in the plans

IIMII

orlaithd wrote: »

However the easterly route goes through Lagore- which was an option originally for the M3 but was dismissed early on as this is a "Green Belt" with historical significance due to the Crannog so this will likely be a possible reason to dismiss it this time around too.

That's a fair point - archaelogy on a new route is going to cost a bomb, wheras the old route has already been cleared, 150 years ago

BrianD

orlaithd wrote: »

The easterly option actually stops in Dunshaughlin- the Pink option stops in Drumree- Close to the Trim Road and not accessible to Dunshaughlin for commuters without either a feeder bus from the village or driving the car to there. Therefore in this sense the Blue option (east of Dunshaughlin) would be a runner as it actually serves Dunshaughlin- the pink does not.

However the easterly route goes through Lagore- which was an option originally for the M3 but was dismissed early on as this is a "Green Belt" with historical significance due to the Crannog so this will likely be a possible reason to dismiss it this time around too.

I am just wondering. One of the development objectives of the Meath County plan is that the development of Dunshaughlin is supposed to be limited. Therefore, the existing Drumree location would be sensible if road links were upgraded given that it would be expected that car and bus borne passengers would feed into it.

Incidentally, the old Navan line was double tracked as far as Drumree in the past.

loyatemu

IIMII wrote: »

That's a fair point - archaelogy on a new route is going to cost a bomb, wheras the old route has already been cleared, 150 years ago

yeah - "cleared", I'd say they did a comprehensive archaeological survey when they did the original line :pac:

dowlingm

Is there any scope for phasing this project so that service to say Dunshaughlin could be done quickly rather than waiting until all 34km is complete?

Also - wasn't Navan supposed to be DART? Is electrification of that branch off the table permanently or merely deferred to allow the earliest possible restart?

Cool Mo D

The line to Dunshaughlin is already under construction. It's the rest that the question mark is over.
As I understand it, only part of the line was to be electrified, from Clonsilla up to a park and ride at the M3 at Pace. The rest of the line would be diesel commuter rail. Not sure if any of it will be electrified now.

orlaithd

Cool Mo D wrote: »

The line to Dunshaughlin is already under construction.

The Line to Dunshaughlin is not under construction. The line to Dunboyne is.
The continuation of this line to Dunshaughlin & then Navan is what the meetings tonight & tomorrow are about.

IIMII

loyatemu wrote: »

yeah - "cleared", I'd say they did a comprehensive archaeological survey when they did the original line :pac:

True and not, in a funny sort of way. The weren't that pushed most likely about archaelogy and may not have even been aware of what they were digging through at times. However, on the flip side, they discovered all sorts of interesting stuff in Navan when building the Drogheda line near the Boyne, including a chariot, horse and a brooch if I remember. Point is, picks and shovels whilst being brute instruments in themselves, are like toothpicks compared to JCBs..! You're much likely to see something before you wreck it. Mind you, I think that bog body they found a couple of years ago was scooped out by jcb so you never know.

Re electrification, it was on again, off again etc. There was no point electrifying Pace when the same scheduled would be continuing to Navan. I've always wonder if the whole thing about electrification was to appease noise concerns at Dunboyne, and then quiely dropped once the issue was dealt with

IIMII

dowlingm wrote: »

Is there any scope for phasing this project so that service to say Dunshaughlin could be done quickly rather than waiting until all 34km is complete?

I wouldn't say so. At one point there was pressure put on the politicians to build the line in 3 sections, but it was felt that the real benefit was to run it all the to Navan as Dunshaughlin is only an intermediate stop at present

Ham'nd'egger

IIMII wrote: »

Re electrification, it was on again, off again etc. There was no point electrifying Pace when the same scheduled would be continuing to Navan. I've always wonder if the whole thing about electrification was to appease noise concerns at Dunboyne, and then quiely dropped once the issue was dealt with

There is some companies shortlisted for the supply of 430 new DART carriages; when or if they are ordered will show us how likely electrification will be on the line.

IIMII

Hamndegger wrote: »

There is some companies shortlisted for the supply of 430 new DART carriages; when or if they are ordered will show us how likely electrification will be on the line.

I know it was dropped for Dunboyne, but I can reference it in my head at the moment. Maybe the plans on the website?

Ham'nd'egger

IIMII wrote: »

I know it was dropped for Dunboyne, but I can reference it in my head at the moment. Maybe the plans on the website?

By the time this new order will be made, the Pace line will be well open and in service so it will have to be diesel for the first few years. It's intended for the Interconnector era so there is plenty of time to upgrade the line for electric, if it comes to. Otherwise we will see 50 eight car sets between Howth and Bray; that's almost one set a minute:D

IIMII

Hmmm. Maybe the idea is to keep initial construction costs low? I remember reading something on Platform 11 about cost of electrification, and the electrification set-up for the DART not being optimal for long distance trips. Do you know anything about that end of things?

Victor

IIMII wrote: »

Hmmm. Maybe the idea is to keep initial construction costs low? I remember reading something on Platform 11 about cost of electrification, and the electrification set-up for the DART not being optimal for long distance trips. Do you know anything about that end of things?

Electrification is more expensive in capital terms, but cheaper operationally.

When the DART was built, the break-even point was 30 trains per day (I can't remember if that was one or both directions).

Electrification to Pace is dependent on money being available and the electrification of the section from Connolly to Clonsilla.

mmclo

Well the westerly route does seem to make sense in terms of servicing Dunshaughlin and even to some extent Ratoath (massive increase in population there).

However am I the only one who feels it is a bit rushed and back of the envelope, already landowners are complaining as they only got notice a day or two before this consultation!

www.michaelmcloughlin.ie

IIMII

The new route is definitely a back of the envelope job. The old route, well they know exacty what they are dealing with. If the case for the railway to Navan is marginal, then swinging it around Dunshaughlin at great expense may end up costing not just the commuters of Navan, but also the commuters of Dunshaughlin delivery of a railway anytime soon. Not that I'm holding my breath for it even on the old alignment. The thing about the old alignment or a westerly route is that it will be accessible to Trim commuters too. If you move it east to service Ratoath commuters, it's at the cost of Trim commuters. And the Kilmessan station is not a definite part of their plans, and the roads to Kilmessan are brutal (vs the new R125 being built at Dunshaughlin at present) so there will be an element of opportunity cost if it goes east

IIMII

Well, according to the Engineers at tonight's public consultation, the report on the route is to be on the Ministers desk by March, and the line is to be delivered for..... wait for it........ 2013!

Which is essentially full steam ahead if you go 18 months to Railway Order, and 3 years to build. Which means diggers on the ground 2010/11. Apparently IÉ are chuffed with themselves, with this and the Interconnector. I don't know, this doesn't seem to be a case of the project being kicked to touch.

Quite honestly, I don't know what to think - just a few years ago, none of the politicians seemed to take it seriously. I know they took flak before the last election over the never-never delivery but I never really believed (and tomorrow probably still won't) that they may actually get stuck into it.

Jeez, after 12 years of promises are they actually going to knuckle down to it?!

IIMII

I may yet be converted into a believer - look at this!

http://www.noeldempsey.ie/

Shifty

I went along to the meeting tonight but the guys I spoke with were still staying 2015 as the date for delivery.

Does anyone know is it possible to get a map showing the old train line (before it closed) in Navan all those years ago.

Its just according to the plans I was looking at tonight the pink line runs over my house, (as in my road is buried under the pink line) had a chat with the guys up there about it & they said not to worry, its most unlikely my house will be affected ( I live in a housing estate, & if I was affected so would over 100 houses)

Nonetheless I would love to compare an old map showing the old lines to the new proposed line which as far as I can see is the same route, just to see how close it will come to the house

IIMII

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=118255188199371041561.00044039f64e553fa78cf&z=9

Do you live near the back of the rugby club? It won't go through any estates and shouldn't really need to result in much (if any) CPOing of residences

lostexpectation

new version with roughly where alternate line and stations go. along with the old line

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&ll=53.51296,-6.492233&spn=0.13372,0.44632&z=12&msid=108692096314893578946.0004607ed16d99a392024

Stroke Politics

IIMII wrote: »

Well, according to the Engineers at tonight's public consultation, the report on the route is to be on the Ministers desk by March, and the line is to be delivered for..... wait for it........ 2013!

Which is essentially full steam ahead if you go 18 months to Railway Order, and 3 years to build. Which means diggers on the ground 2010/11. Apparently IÉ are chuffed with themselves, with this and the Interconnector. I don't know, this doesn't seem to be a case of the project being kicked to touch.

Quite honestly, I don't know what to think - just a few years ago, none of the politicians seemed to take it seriously. I know they took flak before the last election over the never-never delivery but I never really believed (and tomorrow probably still won't) that they may actually get stuck into it.

Jeez, after 12 years of promises are they actually going to knuckle down to it?!

I remain sceptical, but it was encouraging to see both Fiona O'Sullivan (Projects Mgr IE) and Martin Brown (Roughan & O'Donovan) at this public presentation. The musical "Annie" is currently on at the Solstice, downstairs from where the presentation was held. The musical is best known for the song "Tomorrow", this govt has always been good at telling us there'll be jam tomorrow......

Colm R

Stroke Politics wrote: »

I remain sceptical, but it was encouraging to see both Fiona O'Sullivan (Projects Mgr IE) and Martin Brown (Roughan & O'Donovan) at this public presentation. The musical "Annie" is currently on at the Solstice, downstairs from where the presentation was held. The musical is best known for the song "Tomorrow", this govt has always been good at telling us there'll be jam tomorrow......

I am completely sceptical. The timing of this before the local elections is almost comical. I'd cry if it wasn't so funny.

dowlingm

Looking at the map any deviation towards Dunshaughlin would just induce the train wandering drunkenly hither and yon. A bus shuttle between Trim, Dunshauglin and the original line would reduce the number of parking spaces needed and keep journey times down, not mention facilitate those who would prefer not to/can't drive and ride. No chance of that happening of course because IE won't run such buses and Meath County Council won't either!

DWCommuter

Derek and his Banjo will walk the line naked if it opens by 2015. In fact I'll up the anti. I'll complete the walk if it opens by 2019!!!!

Realistically, if the pressure was kept on and the money started to flow again the line might have a chance of opening by 2020. But the state has done it no favours by adding substantial costs and works due to the M3.

For now, Dempsey and IE are full of hot air.

Judgement Day

dowlingm wrote: »

Looking at the map any deviation towards Dunshaughlin would just induce the train wandering drunkenly hither and yon. A bus shuttle between Trim, Dunshauglin and the original line would reduce the number of parking spaces needed and keep journey times down, not mention facilitate those who would prefer not to/can't drive and ride. No chance of that happening of course because IE won't run such buses and Meath County Council won't either!

A bit like the Luas Green line extension from Sandyford to Cherrywood so?

DWCommuter

Judgement Day wrote: »

A bit like the Luas Green line extension from Sandyford to Cherrywood so?

Another developer lead waste of resources.;)

spacetweek

DWCommuter wrote: »

Another developer lead waste of resources.;)

Rubbish. A totally essential deviation that prevents the extension making a loss.

Sponge Bob

Lookit , this consultation is a simple farce which is Noel Dempsey led ...not developer led.

Dempsey promised the line would be completed to Navan years ago . So far they have a couple of strimmers in near Clonsilla. If you elect monkeys you get peanuts people . Way it is

DWCommuter

spacetweek wrote: »

Rubbish. A totally essential deviation that prevents the extension making a loss.

Im talking about the whole extension of the luas to Cherrywood, because there are more vital areas of the city in need of public transport.

Perhaps you thought I was talking about a deviation of the Navan line to Dunshaughlin? If so then it doesn't need a deviation as the original line passes within an asses roar of the town. Had Meath CC had any real intention of supporting the reopening of the railway, then they would have made sure that development happened on the Trim side of the town near the rail alignment and M3 and not the Ratoath side. Its really quite simple. If (and its a pretty huge if at that) the line ever reopened the original alignment would still provide excellent service for Dunshaughlin as the access roads for cars and buses are being rebuilt under the dreaded M3 project anyway.

While I don't believe the line will reopen for a very long time, I do know an awful lot about it, so please try and restrain yourself from jumping off a diving board into the shallow end as in using the term, "Rubbish". Its little words like that which cause big arguments that usually end up being pointless. Next time try, "I disagree with you because".

spacetweek

DWCommuter wrote: »

Im talking about the whole extension of the luas to Cherrywood, because there are more vital areas of the city in need of public transport.
...
While I don't believe the line will reopen for a very long time, I do know an awful lot about it, so please try and restrain yourself from jumping off a diving board into the shallow end as in using the term, "Rubbish". Its little words like that which cause big arguments that usually end up being pointless. Next time try, "I disagree with you because".

I was talking about Sandyford to Cherrywood. The deviation was essential because the original line ran between Leoparstown Racecourse (which can't be redeveloped) and Foxrock (where each house has a quarter-acre garden). I used the word "Rubbish" which was a bit strong but to be honest I thought it was pretty clear why we need to build new transit lines through greenfield areas and not existing ones. The existing ones are far too low density.

Back OT. In the case of the Navan line I agree with all your points re:Dunshauglin.

DWCommuter

spacetweek wrote: »

I was talking about Sandyford to Cherrywood. The deviation was essential because the original line ran between Leoparstown Racecourse (which can't be redeveloped) and Foxrock (where each house has a quarter-acre garden). I used the word "Rubbish" which was a bit strong but to be honest I thought it was pretty clear why we need to build new transit lines through greenfield areas and not existing ones. The existing ones are far too low density.

Back OT. In the case of the Navan line I agree with all your points re:Dunshauglin.

Yea I agree that the Sandyford Cherrywood line needed the extra density that the deviation brought, but personally I think it was far from a priority. But thats another story.

As for Navan, well its turning into a no brainer. But I shall refrain from more negativity for now. Im like a broken record on it.

Judgement Day

Apart from serious overcrowding problems that I forsee with the Luas Green Line extension, I am intrigued as to how the talked of longer term conversion to Metro will be possible on the deviation between Sandyford and Carrickmines?

DWCommuter

Judgement Day wrote: »

Apart from serious overcrowding problems that I forsee with the Luas Green Line extension, I am intrigued as to how the talked of longer term conversion to Metro will be possible on the deviation between Sandyford and Carrickmines?

Covered that with the RPA a couple of years back and its generally conceeded that it will never happen. The metrofication of the green line was nothing more than a pitiful political ruse to justify the 1997 Governments' procrastination, interference and downright ignorant stupidity in relation to public transport. Its the sole reason the lines aren't linked. They havent a clue and never will. We are about to repeat mistakes we made in the 70s and 80s. Irish politicians should be banned from even uttering the words "public transport".

Judgement Day

Maybe I should just stick to the Rugby!

DWCommuter

Judgement Day wrote: »

Maybe I should just stick to the Rugby!

Just like I stick to the beer!!:D Its easier that way.;)

mmclo

Even Noel Dempsey cannot deny there is €70m less in the public transport budget for 2009 and god knows what after that!