Calling BMW - M Sport Owners

RobAMerc

Hi guys,

Have an e90 M Sport since September and I have to say the ride is just appalling - has anybody else changed from the run flats and does it really make a difference ?

Otherwise the M Sport is up for sale !

thanks

partyguinness

I have a 320 Black Diesel Coupe 2006 if you want to buy it.

Its great but I need the money to emigrate...:(

notahappycamper

I have an E90 M Sport with 18" Run flats.

The ride is fine on good roads and bad on bad roads!

It really shows up the bad quality of some of our roads!

I don't think I'll change them though!

RobAMerc

notahappycamper wrote: »

I have an E90 M Sport with 18" Run flats.

The ride is fine on good roads and bad on bad roads!

It really shows up the bad quality of some of our roads!

I don't think I'll change them though!

Its not just the roads problem I'm afraid - I have driven the exact same roads in other cars without having my fillings shaken out - I am hoping getting rid of the run flats might solve it - otherwise I am getting shot, but I would rather not spend the money first for no reason.

RobAMerc

partyguinness wrote: »

I have a 320 Black Diesel Coupe 2006 if you want to buy it.

Its great but I need the money to emigrate...:(

PM sent - have buddy that might be interested.

Biro

Guy I know who's a BMW nut changed his on his BMW and says makes a massive difference.

Owen

It's an M Sport ... why did you buy an M Sport if ride quality was paramount?

Questions aside, a good solution would be to downgrade wheel size and switch to non runflats. I went from 18" run flats recently to a car with 17"s and non runflats and it made some difference. Certainly much cheaper than changing car in the current climate, and you can also get replica M Sport alloys in smaller sizes, so no one would be any the wiser when looking at your car.

Ferris

ned78 wrote: »

It's an M Sport ... why did you buy an M Sport if ride quality was paramount?

Questions aside, a good solution would be to downgrade wheel size and switch to non runflats. I went from 18" run flats recently to a car with 17"s and non runflats and it made some difference. Certainly much cheaper than changing car in the current climate, and you can also get replica M Sport alloys in smaller sizes, so no one would be any the wiser when looking at your car.

Or even better, swap them with someone with an M90 who wants bigger wheels.

a mate has an e92 convertible msport with 19" runflats and it does crash and bang horribly and he's cracked an alloy and bust two tyres already. The cars only saving grace is that it has the msport seats which do cushion impacts reasonably well.

maidhc

Ferris wrote: »

The cars only saving grace is that it has the msport seats which do cushion impacts reasonably well.

That sounds suspiciously like what my father says about the tractor! Does the BMW have an air seat?

Ferris

maidhc wrote: »

That sounds suspiciously like what my father says about the tractor! Does the BMW have an air seat?

No - just an airhead, they come as standard!:D

copacetic

I don't find it too bad, it's about what I expected. I came from an audi with sport suspension though so it isn't that different. You do want to avoid large potholes though as they can be teeth chattering.

tbh if you go for a car with a lowered sport suspension and large wheels you shouldn't be shocked when ride is poor on poor roads. (Changing to smaller wheels might help, but everyone will be the wiser Ned as they look much too small imo) I found the ride wasn't that much better with smaller wheels as that extra inch or two of runflat stiff sidewall isn't much help anyway.

Funnily enough both the audi and bmw get bad reviews for ride quality and great ones for handling. You can't really have it both ways imo.

38psi

i have the 17" RFT on my E92 and the ride is crap, probably a combination of sports suspension RFTs and crap roads. Important to keep an eye on tyre pressures also if you have a look on the E90Post forums there are plenty of people on there that have made the change over to normal tyres and seem to be happy with the changes.

RobAMerc

Why do you think you can't have a good handling car without the crap ride ?

I have driven lots of the e46 with MSport package - a fine handling car but the ride is way better than the e90 I have.

911's don't crash and bang over every bump and lump on the road - do they handle badly ?

Lots of manufacturers have managed it but in this case BMW have not !

Ferocious

Have an e46 M-Sport with 18s. Really like it but have been feeling the ride too. Find it fine on national roads and love the handling on some bends where other cars feel like they might end up on they're side, and I'm not talking about speeding now.
As said earlier, bad roads are very bad. Feels like you've hit a deer in some of the caters they call potholes here. But the worst of all is town centers! Streets that have had different portions of the same hundred yards of street dug up and re-filled 10 times in the last 6 months. Gort is one of the worst I've encountered and unfortuntely I going to be encountering it a lot more in the coming months due to work. Nearly for that reason alone, I had been half considering changing but I bought it just before the downturn so would loose too much. Thought the 18s were a bit much but agree with the poster that said people will notice. Although, I don't think I'd like to have my back in tatters for vainity!

RobAMerc

ned78 wrote: »

It's an M Sport ... why did you buy an M Sport if ride quality was paramount?

I never said ride quality was paramount did I ?
I bought it because it suits what I am after in almost every other way - I am just finding the ride quality after a few thousand miles is starting to get on my nerves.

mickdw

Its the runflats. They just dont work on uneven surfaces. Even if you forget about the ride quality, they tend to cause dangerous steering pull on uneven roads as they follow the camber strongly. They behave like a much wider lower profile tyre than they actually are. A local garage here who imports alot of stuff from uk ends up taking the runflats off in most cases when the owners come back complaining of crazy ride and a tendancy to pull the car in all directions

Biro

copacetic wrote: »

I don't find it too bad, it's about what I expected. I came from an audi with sport suspension though so it isn't that different. You do want to avoid large potholes though as they can be teeth chattering.

tbh if you go for a car with a lowered sport suspension and large wheels you shouldn't be shocked when ride is poor on poor roads. (Changing to smaller wheels might help, but everyone will be the wiser Ned as they look much too small imo) I found the ride wasn't that much better with smaller wheels as that extra inch or two of runflat stiff sidewall isn't much help anyway.

Funnily enough both the audi and bmw get bad reviews for ride quality and great ones for handling. You can't really have it both ways imo.

The ride quality is sound on the E46 M3, yet the handling is good. Why should an E92 handle similarly to an E46 M3 yet have such shockingly bad ride quality on less than perfect roads? The answer = the run flat tyres!!

RobAMerc

Yea - I figured out its the run flats - there is no give in them whatsoever so it seems the suspension is alot busier trying to keep up with the bumps that softer side walls would start dealing with before the energy got transferred into the shocks.

Even a rudimentary kick believe it or not feels alot different to the side walls of ordinary tyres!

Mr.David

Living almost anywhere in Continental Europe the ride would be fine, but not here in Ireland. The ride isnt really set up for roads rougher than the surface of the moon and so is unacceptable really with the run flats. It really is much better without them though.

Had a 550i with and without and there is a huge difference. The only positive of the runflats (apart from their obvious runflat capability!) is that turn in is slightly sharper due to the stiffer sidewall but the trade off is minimal for the improvement in ride quality.

L-M

For the OP, i remember reading on here somewhere before that someone took the runflats off their BMW, and when they got it serviced BMW put them back on without warning. Apparently they "have" to have runflats on them.

RobAMerc

Mr.David wrote: »

The only positive of the runflats (apart from their obvious runflat capability!) is that turn in is slightly sharper due to the stiffer sidewall but the trade off is minimal for the improvement in ride quality.

good observation, I never thought of that - but I find driving it quickly difficult as my vision is blurred with the jarring ! ( I am not joking )

gofaster_s13

I have an e90 330d m-sport and an e46 330d m-sport and have fitted the 17's off the e46 on the e90 and they absolutly ruined the handling, the runflats seem to give a much more positive turn in and give a much more controllable/progressive rear when you let it out to play. The e46 was criticised in the motoring press as not been up to BMW's handling standards, the E46 and the E90's are worlds apart as regards handling(with the e90 m sport being one of the best handling cars I have driven) and the payoff for this would appear to be crashiness on bad roads at low speeds which does appear to resolve itself as speeds pick up. To the poster who says that Porsches don't crash and bang, they don't on standard suspension but when you get the uprated gt3 or other higher versions(equivalant of BMW's M-sport) they are supposed to be extremly harsh.

RobAMerc

gofaster_s13 wrote: »

To the poster who says that Porsches don't crash and bang, they don't on standard suspension but when you get the uprated gt3 or other higher versions(equivalant of BMW's M-sport) they are supposed to be extremly harsh.

my point was a 911 handles well yet doesn't cash and bang on rough roads - in fairness the gt3 is a specialized track version - my 320d MSport is not - its a bit apples with oranges here I reckon

Mr.David

gofaster_s13 wrote: »

I fitted the 17's off the e46 on the e90 and they absolutly ruined the handling.........................................................

To the poster who says that Porsches don't crash and bang, they don't on standard suspension but when you get the uprated gt3 or other higher versions(equivalant of BMW's M-sport) they are supposed to be extremly harsh.

Firstly, fitting 17s from an e46 could have ruined the ride for a number of reasons. I would guess the profiles are different, and the offsets possibly too. Fitting the same size tyre on the same wheel only without run flat will certainly improve ride.

You cannot compare a Porsche GT3 with an optional sport suspension kit on a BMW thats just ridiculous.

gofaster_s13

Mr.David wrote: »

Firstly, fitting 17s from an e46 could have ruined the ride for a number of reasons. I would guess the profiles are different, and the offsets possibly too. Fitting the same size tyre on the same wheel only without run flat will certainly improve ride.

You cannot compare a Porsche GT3 with an optional sport suspension kit on a BMW thats just ridiculous.

There is no doubt that fitting non run-flats will improve ride, the point I was making is that they will destroy the handling, the 17's are the same profile and offset just an inch smaller in diameter in fact the 17's that are on the e46 are available as standard on the e92 if you order it in that configuration. A standard 911 is a very stiff car and yes it will feel harsh on Irish roads, the point that I was making is that if you order a car with sports suspension it is without doubt going to be harsher than standard suspension.

Seth Brundle

Limerick-man wrote: »

For the OP, i remember reading on here somewhere before that someone took the runflats off their BMW, and when they got it serviced BMW put them back on without warning. Apparently they "have" to have runflats on them.

I've never heard of that happening before!

Anan1

I drove an E90 320d with the M-Pack, you'd want to be very taken with the looks to put up with the ride. Even the SE is a bit on the firm side, IMO.

RobAMerc

Yea - to be fair I drove two and both on silky smooth roads before I bought ( And I was listening to my head and wife rather than my heart when I bought )

Actually the crashy about town stuff is a bit irritating but liveable, its taken a few miles on some back roads to really prove to me there is an issue here - to be fair most of the driving I do is fine on main roads - its when I want to enjoy the back roads the issue really raises its ugly head.

Anan1

This brings me to a point I think most people don't get - if back-road hooliganism is your thing then you need a fair bit of suspension travel.

L-M

kbannon wrote: »

I've never heard of that happening before!

I definitly remember it being said. Spent the last twenty mins searching for it and can't find it lol. What i could find was that removing them voids the warranty... I'll keep searching.

gofaster_s13

Anan1 wrote: »

This brings me to a point I think most people don't get - if back-road hooliganism is your thing then you need a fair bit of suspension travel.

Subaru, Mitsubishi etc have got it all wrong so !!

budweiserfrogie

Limerick-man wrote: »

What i could find was that removing them voids the warranty... I'll keep searching.

:)I talked to my local main dealer about taking off the terrible runflats only 1 month after purchasing my 2006 e60 520d m-sport.
They agreed with me that it would really improve the comfort levels in my car and had no problem supplying the optional spare wheel kit to enable me to proceed.
I took off the standard 245/40/18 runflats and fitted a set of same sized Vredestein Ultrac Sessanta. Great tyre. Very much noticeably improved comfort etc.
They gave me a bumper to bumper 24 month warranty with my used car purchase and had no issues with me removing the runflats.

Anan1

Anan1 wrote: »

This brings me to a point I think most people don't get - if back-road hooliganism is your thing then you need a fair bit of suspension travel.

gofaster_s13 wrote: »

Subaru, Mitsubishi etc have got it all wrong so !!

Last Subaru I drove had more than enough, what Subaru/Mitsubishi do you think doesn't?

RobAMerc

budweiserfrogie wrote: »

:)I talked to my local main dealer about taking off the terrible runflats only 1 month after purchasing my 2006 e60 520d m-sport.
They agreed with me that it would really improve the comfort levels in my car and had no problem supplying the optional spare wheel kit to enable me to proceed.
I took off the standard 245/40/18 runflats and fitted a set of same sized Vredestein Ultrac Sessanta. Great tyre. Very much noticeably improved comfort etc.
They gave me a bumper to bumper 24 month warranty with my used car purchase and had no issues with me removing the runflats.

I think I will give the fronts only a try as its a lot cheaper than the four - I will know pretty quick - although I am going to test drive something on Saturday that I might just go ahead with.

Thanks for all the info guys.
Rob

Ferris

RobAMerc wrote: »

I think I will give the fronts only a try as its a lot cheaper than the four - I will know pretty quick - although I am going to test drive something on Saturday that I might just go ahead with.

Thanks for all the info guys.
Rob

If it does/doesn't work you can always sell whatever tyres you're not using on ebay or adverts. The loss should be minimal this way.

gofaster_s13

Anan1 wrote: »

Last Subaru I drove had more than enough, what Subaru/Mitsubishi do you think doesn't?

Your mixing up suspension compliance with suspension travel, Subarus and Mitsubishi Evo's have very little suspension travel if you jack one wheel on either of these cars it will most likely lift both wheel on that side of the car.

Ferris

gofaster_s13 wrote: »

Your mixing up suspension compliance with suspension travel, Subarus and Mitsubishi Evo's have very little suspension travel if you jack one wheel on either of these cars it will most likely lift both wheel on that side of the car.

A friend used to have a 106 GTi that was so stiff that would lift a rear wheel off the ground if you parked one of the front wheels on a kerb, it wasn't an uncomfortable car however and a great backroads machine. In saying that it had the standard 15" wheels and tyres.

copacetic

RobAMerc wrote: »

I think I will give the fronts only a try as its a lot cheaper than the four - I will know pretty quick - although I am going to test drive something on Saturday that I might just go ahead with.

Thanks for all the info guys.
Rob

would deffo try that first, I know everyone is blaming the runflats but personally I think most of it is the suspension. A friend changed his 19s for std tyres and driving his and mine back to back there isn't much of a difference.

Possibly it isn't as noticeable on 19s though since there isn't much rubber. or maybe it would become noticeable as you live with them longer.

Anan1

gofaster_s13 wrote: »

Your mixing up suspension compliance with suspension travel, Subarus and Mitsubishi Evo's have very little suspension travel if you jack one wheel on either of these cars it will most likely lift both wheel on that side of the car.

Jacking a car up doesn't tell you much about suspension travel, you need to compress rather than release the spring for that. Those cars will have enough suspension travel (given their stiffened springs/dampers) for very high speeds on relatively smooth roads. Taking a pothole or ramp at speed in one, however, is a different matter altogether. Anyway, this is all a bit OT, let's not get in the way of the MPack & RFT debate.

budweiserfrogie

RobAMerc wrote: »

I think I will give the fronts only a try as its a lot cheaper than the four - I will know pretty quick - although I am going to test drive something on Saturday that I might just go ahead with.

It cost me €450 for my 4 tyres, or i could have had falcons for €400.
The Spare kit cost me €250, and included a spacesaver spare wheel, jack, brace, wheel chocks & wheel insert to keep all the bits in place while stored in the standard spot under the carpet in the boot.
All in, a lot more economical than €1100 it would cost in my local for a replacement set of runflats.

RobAMerc

budweiserfrogie wrote: »

It cost me €450 for my 4 tyres, or i could have had falcons for €400.
The Spare kit cost me €250, and included a spacesaver spare wheel, jack, brace, wheel chocks & wheel insert to keep all the bits in place while stored in the standard spot under the carpet in the boot.
All in, a lot more economical than €1100 it would cost in my local for a replacement set of runflats.

I was going to go with a can of Gunk and a 12v compressor I have.

BTW, I was wise enough to go with the 17" rims - I can only imagine the ride on the 18's is totally cack !

MarkN

Nevermind an alloy, I've checked for a cracked tooth with some of the potholes I've hit - 19" M sport wheels and RFTs.

My warranty is up in May and I'll be putting the same tyres on when they need replacing, just not RFs.

911s very much do crash and bang also, I drove a convertible Carrera a lot over the summer on 18" wheels and the ride was fairly hard too.