Another which bike question...

griffin100

Sorry to post another 'which bike question' but I need some advice...

I started cycling last summer as I wanted to do some sprint triathlons as a way of getting fitter (have lost almost three stone to date). Started off with a standard mtb and then got hold of a QuintaRoo Triathlon bike which is a good few years old. I usually do 2-3 rides a week of between 40 and 60kms but I want to start increasing the distances as I want to take part in longer races this year. I would also like to increase my average speed if possible. My aim is to try and do the 40km of a Olympic distance tri in about 80 minutes, currently in training I average about 82 minutes for the 40km so still have a bit to go (I can do the first 20km in 40 minutes). I find however that my lower back can get quite stiff after the longer rides as the tri handlebars limit the number of positions my hands can take. Also the bike is starting to look a bit tatty given its age. Given this I have been toying with the idea of getting a new bike as I am assuming that a more modern road bike will be both more comfortable and will (hopefully) help increase my average speed.

Over Christmas I won €500 in a raffle and I thought great, that'ill help cover the cost of Christmas but my fab wife suggested that I buy a new bike with the money:). So here I am with up to about €600 - 700 to spend on a bike that I want to use for triathlons and hopefully longer training rides. However I am completely confused by the array of bikes on offer in this price range. Lots of people here seem to like the BeOne Storm 1.0 which is currently only €520. This seems like great value and also leaves a few quid to buy some accesories (like pedals!!).
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=25459

However I also like the look of these bikes:
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/Cycle/7/Giant_SCR_15_Road_Bike/5360037569/
http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/product/15628/Felt_Z90_Bike_2008
https://www.sigmasport.co.uk/app/secure/Bike.aspx?SubCatId=269&BID=11&View=N

Any advice would be great. My technical knowledge is non existent so the differences between different gear sets, frame geomety, etc. means nothing to me:(

The other option I suppose is to spend the money on my existing bike but I don't know how useful that would be.

Thanks for the help.

penexpers

The BeOne has a better groupset but (arguably) the others would have a better frame. I don't think there's too much to pick between the last three.

griffin100

Thanks for that penexpers. After some thought I'm going to go for the Trek (it was a close call between it and the BeOne). Heading up to Lurgan on Saturday to buy one here http://www.wheelsnmotion.co.uk/ Not buying online and going to a shop means I actually get to take my time and sit on it and ensure I get the right size:). I would prefer to buy it in a local shop but it's so much more expensire down south (same bike is €829 on wheelworx website as opposed to £495 up north).

One other question, anyone any opinion on whether to go for the double or triple crank? I don't do many large hills but if I ever decided to do the Beast Of The East or something similar would I need the triple? Cheers.

blorg

If you are starting out and plan to do any hills I think a triple or compact double is essential. Luckily most entry-level bikes are now coming with compacts. This is a double crankset with (generally) 50-34 rings compared to 53-39 on a standard double. This gets you almost as low as a triple which has a 30 small ring- it tends to leave you with just one less gear on the bottom end compared to a triple. I wouldn't worry about the top end either, 50-12 should be enough for almost any non-professional.

griffin100

Thanks Blorg. Standard double on the trek is a 50/34 so I'ill go with the double.

tunney

blorg wrote: »

If you are starting out and plan to do any hills I think a triple or compact double is essential. Luckily most entry-level bikes are now coming with compacts. This is a double crankset with (generally) 50-34 rings compared to 53-39 on a standard double. This gets you almost as low as a triple which has a 30 small ring- it tends to leave you with just one less gear on the bottom end compared to a triple. I wouldn't worry about the top end either, 50-12 should be enough for almost any non-professional.

GAH!!!!! Has someone just recommended a triple for a TT bike??? And a compact for a TT bike?????????

I am assuming that the QR has a dedicated TT front end? If so then its ideal for smashing times. Yes you might need a training bike but if it is a steep geometry dedicated aero rig (albeit as aero as a QR is going to be) then this will always be faster on flat to undulating TT/tri courses.

Keep the QR, dial your position in, remember its not the bike that is uncomfortable it is your position on your bike. Get the position right and you will spank out the watts and have a low CdA - high watts + low CdA = fast.

That being said if you are still seriously considering a triple (or even double??) for doing TTs/tris on then perhaps an aero position is not for you and you can ditch the QR.

Also you training needs to be looked at. It shouldn't be a case of trying to beat your times each and every ride. A combination of long easy stuff, some hills, some speed work and some BG work will have you ripping through the bike legs of triathlons.

blorg

I knew that would tease you out tunney

I'm suggesting this from the point of view of someone who is not ultra-fit, a bit overweight and looking at the bike as a method of losing the weight rather than someone who is looking at seriously competing in triathlons. If you only want to do flat course triathlons (and most of them are) then certainly a standard double will be fine, and the QR OP has will likely be better (and indeed faster) than any of the other suggestions, presuming it fits.

If on the other hand you want to go on longer cycles including hills then a tri bike is not optimal for this, especially if you consider going on group rides.

TBH you might be best off using the new bike for the longer training cycles and keeping the QR for the racing (you would of course have to do a portion of your training on the tri bike to be familiar with it and the position.)

griffin100

I am assuming that the QR has a dedicated TT front end? If so then its ideal for smashing times. Yes you might need a training bike but if it is a steep geometry dedicated aero rig (albeit as aero as a QR is going to be) then this will always be faster on flat to undulating TT/tri courses.

Keep the QR, dial your position in, remember its not the bike that is uncomfortable it is your position on your bike. Get the position right and you will spank out the watts and have a low CdA - high watts + low CdA = fast.

The QR has a dedicated tri front end, or at least what I assume is one - will post a photo tomorrow. I have seen a couple of shops with bike fitting services, do you reckon it would be worthwile getting this done with the QR in a shop or can I do it myself from info on the web? I have made minimal changes to the set up since I got the bike so it probably needs some work.

I will get the Trek for longer trainig rides (the allure of a shiny new bike should not be underestimated) and see how it compares to the QR for triathlon times.

Also you training needs to be looked at. It shouldn't be a case of trying to beat your times each and every ride. A combination of long easy stuff, some hills, some speed work and some BG work will have you ripping through the bike legs of triathlons.

Makes sense. I dont try and beat my best times every time I ride, although on the shorter rides I tend to try almost every time . My lack of experience coming thorugh there.

Thanks for all the advice.

griffin100

I'm suggesting this from the point of view of someone who is not ultra-fit, a bit overweight and looking at the bike as a method of losing the weight rather than someone who is looking at seriously competing in triathlons.

Have we met? A short yet extremely accurate description of me!! Don't worry though, I aim to pass the Tunney Jiggle Test by mid 2009, or come close anyway.

tunney

griffin100 wrote: »

The QR has a dedicated tri front end, or at least what I assume is one - will post a photo tomorrow. I have seen a couple of shops with bike fitting services, do you reckon it would be worthwile getting this done with the QR in a shop or can I do it myself from info on the web? I have made minimal changes to the set up since I got the bike so it probably needs some work.

Wheelworx do a reasonable fit. Most bike shops to god awful TT/tri set ups. But what you really want is a F.I.S.T. fitter. Unfortunately there are not in Ireland. Some more experienced people in the sport may be able to help though.

Check out www.slowtwitch.com for fitting (tri only) guidelines.

griffin100

Photos of my QR tri bike. It's getting a bit tatty as you can see.

One question, I assume that unless going up or down really steep hills I should be down on the tri bars as much as possible.

FrankGrimes

I've often wondered just how much of a difference a time-trial bike makes for the average amateur triathlon participant. I'd consider doing a triathlon if I manage to heal a long-term leg injury and would be interested in doing it more as a motivation to improve the fitness than to compete at the top, though I guess I'm curious about the biking part.

How long is the biking section and what sort of average speed would be done by the a) the bulk of the participants and b) the top-end competitors?

Do most people actually go for TT bikes or does a big portion normally just use a normal road bike?

scottreynolds

tunney wrote: »

Wheelworx do a reasonable fit. Most bike shops to god awful TT/tri set ups. But what you really want is a F.I.S.T. fitter. Unfortunately there are not in Ireland. Some more experienced people in the sport may be able to help though.

Check out www.slowtwitch.com for fitting (tri only) guidelines.

Sean at Irish Fit who did double iron man, so i presume he's experienced enough, offers fittings.. www.irishfit.com

tunney

scottreynolds wrote: »

Sean at Irish Fit who did double iron man, so i presume he's experienced enough, offers fittings.. www.irishfit.com

I've no experience of this person, I don't know them but simply completing a double ironman means nothing.

This is what I mean by aero position:






Too high at the front, not the fastest. I'd concerned that the shoulder muscles would have to be working to maintain that position.

interested

FrankGrimes wrote: »

I've often wondered just how much of a difference a time-trial bike makes for the average amateur triathlon participant. I'd consider doing a triathlon if I manage to heal a long-term leg injury and would be interested in doing it more as a motivation to improve the fitness than to compete at the top, though I guess I'm curious about the biking part.

How long is the biking section and what sort of average speed would be done by the a) the bulk of the participants and b) the top-end competitors?

Do most people actually go for TT bikes or does a big portion normally just use a normal road bike?

Bike legs range from sprint to full ironman from 20k to 180k respectively. The field varies regarding bikes ... some sprint tri's you'll see hybrids and mountain bikes ... at a half ironman up north last year I was racked beside a relay competitor with a top end P3 Cervelo with all the trimmings - he backed it up too with a 2.16 split for 93km on unclosed roads.

Average speeds of TOP end competitors for 40k in olympic distance events would probably be just over 40km/hour - Ive no statistics to hand but Id reckon an average of 30 - 35 km /hour might summarise the bulk of the field.

imho, alot of people use road bikes with attachable bar ends to good use. theres always alot of bike bling between the bikes and wheelsets but its not always at the front end of the field.

interested

tunney wrote: »

I've no experience of this person, I don't know them but simply completing a double ironman means nothing.

Never let it be said Tunney didnt speak his mind

I think if I ever splash the cash on a TT bike Ill be paying extra to get things fitted. Nothing against IrishFit's service but Ive always heard good things from Rob at WheelWorx - for the record Ive absolutely no connection with the shop.

tunney

interested wrote: »

Bike legs range from sprint to full ironman from 20k to 180k respectively. The field varies regarding bikes ... some sprint tri's you'll see hybrids and mountain bikes ... at a half ironman up north last year I was racked beside a relay competitor with a top end P3 Cervelo with all the trimmings - he backed it up too with a 2.16 split for 93km on unclosed roads.

What HIM was this?

interested

tunney wrote: »

What HIM was this?

Groomsport - guy called Dave Dent. I got chatting to him before the start - he's from the Isle of white.
I took my time taking the cover off my own bike that morning

tunney

interested wrote: »

Never let it be said Tunney didnt speak his mind

Its not exactly contraversal - I simply stated that completion of a triathlon, regardless of distance, does not constitute a bike fitting qualification.

tunney

interested wrote: »

Groomsport - guy called Dave Dent. I got chatting to him before the start - he's from the Isle of white.
I took my time taking the cover off my own bike that morning

Strange - can't find him on the 07 or 08 results. Fastest splits being 2:27 in 08 and 2:35 in 07.

this is half-ireman you are talking about?

interested

tunney wrote: »

Strange - can't find him on the 07 or 08 results. Fastest splits being 2:27 in 08 and 2:35 in 07.

this is half-ireman you are talking about?

Yep - down the bottom of the results 'Cyclists Fighting Cancer'
2.16.09

interested

tunney wrote: »

Its not exactly contraversal - I simply stated that completion of a triathlon, regardless of distance, does not constitute a bike fitting qualification.

I agree in every way with the point that doing a triathlon of any description doesnt qualify anyone to do a bike or a TT bike fitting btw.

tunney

interested wrote: »

Yep - down the bottom of the results 'Cyclists Fighting Cancer'
2.16.09

Ah relay, nice time!

interested

tunney wrote: »

Ah relay, nice time!

Yep - the race report mentions it since he was friend of the organiser from work or something. Nice guy - interesting thing was he'd predicted sub 2.17 to me before I headed off to be beach. Nice.
As you know yourself from that day, getting through the traffic and village junctions in one piece as well as avoiding bouts of road rage was hard enough - but knocking out 2.16 was seriously impressive imho.

I reckon he'd have struggled to get under 3 hours if he'd the swim under his belt though

MCOS

interested wrote: »

Yep - down the bottom of the results 'Cyclists Fighting Cancer'
2.16.09

Thats savage cycling :eek: 41km/h for 93k!

TinyExplosions

interested wrote: »

I agree in every way with the point that doing a triathlon of any description doesnt qualify anyone to do a bike or a TT bike fitting btw.

+1 to that... Just cos you've put together a few dozen IKEA shelves don't make you a carpenter

Turbulent Bill

interested wrote: »

Yep - down the bottom of the results 'Cyclists Fighting Cancer'
2.16.09

Doesn't everyone know that cyclists fighting cancer are incredibly (nay unbelieveably) quick? I put it down to the aerodynamic yellow wristbands and living strong .

blorg

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

Doesn't everyone know that cyclists fighting cancer are incredibly (nay unbelieveably) quick? I put it down to the aerodynamic yellow wristbands and living strong .

Don't forget the chemo drugs and the body resculpting

christeb

Giant MCR Tri bike.
Purchased this from eBay and have never put it to proper use since. The closest it's been to an event was in the Duathlon's in the Phoenix Park last year, and although I will be competing again this year, I more focussed on running and won't be using the bike for anything longer - therefore I'd prefer to sell and buy more of an allround road bike.
Blorg and possibly a couple of the other lads spotted it in the last Duathlon, there's a thread about it somewhere but can't seem to find it. Attached are a few pics, I paid just over £1,000 all-in for it on eBay, back when sterling was a real currency! The chain has come off a number of times, so the inside of the frame is quite scratched, I'm sure a tiny but oif TLC can help. Realistically I wouldn't let it go for less than €1,000.

All Ultegra components, Ironman Tri bars, Nokon Cables, 2 pairs of wheels, 1 Mavic open Pro and the other are the standard Giants Carbon spoked ones.

Pics attached, let me know if you have any interest.

PS: UCI illegal, therefore very fast

griffin100

It's a bit out of my price range Christeb. Also I really do want to try a road bike for a while at least. Cheers.

tunney

christeb wrote: »

Giant MCR Tri bike.
Purchased this from eBay and have never put it to proper use since. The closest it's been to an event was in the Duathlon's in the Phoenix Park last year, and although I will be competing again this year, I more focussed on running and won't be using the bike for anything longer - therefore I'd prefer to sell and buy more of an allround road bike.
Blorg and possibly a couple of the other lads spotted it in the last Duathlon, there's a thread about it somewhere but can't seem to find it. Attached are a few pics, I paid just over £1,000 all-in for it on eBay, back when sterling was a real currency! The chain has come off a number of times, so the inside of the frame is quite scratched, I'm sure a tiny but oif TLC can help. Realistically I wouldn't let it go for less than €1,000.

All Ultegra components, Ironman Tri bars, Nokon Cables, 2 pairs of wheels, 1 Mavic open Pro and the other are the standard Giants Carbon spoked ones.

Pics attached, let me know if you have any interest.

PS: UCI illegal, therefore very fast

Pretty steep price for a banged up bike regardless of the unique frame, which I'm not sure is any fastest than some of the newer UCI legal frames. Its a very old Ultegra grouppo as well.

Chips Lovell

tunney wrote: »

Pretty steep price for a banged up bike regardless of the unique frame, which I'm not sure is any fastest than some of the newer UCI legal frames. Its a very old Ultegra grouppo as well.

Tunney, I'm sure you could bargain him down. Look at his blog link in his sig - "Will drop pants for food". A man like that should settle for less than a grand.

christeb

el tonto wrote: »

Tunney, I'm sure you could bargain him down. Look at his blog link in his sig - "Will drop pants for food". A man like that should settle for less than a grand.

Good point, I'm probably a bit bitter I overpaid for it. It's slightly banged up, but I'm sure it stilll has a lot of love to give!