Munster Indoor results - Good Run By Hanrahan

thirtyfoot

http://www.munsterathletics.com/results/2009/senjunindoors.pdf

First indoor competition of the year in Nenagh yesterday.

Solo run by Mark Hanrahan with a very fast 3:46.45 considering there was nobody within an asses roar of him.

Other notables:

Niamh Whelan Jun 60 7.84
Chris Russell Jun 60/200 7.09/22.88
Jer O' Donoghue Sen 60 6.91
Antoine Burke Sen 400 51.03
Pat McCartan Sen 3000 8:35.46

DangerMouse27

good standard of competition.The Junior mens 200m won in 22.88...not too shabby

Irishathlete_1

What age is Mark Hanrahan? If he's under 23 then that's not bad. The rest of the results were very poor in my opinion.

Niamh Whelan's 60m was ok, but I would have hoped to see her open at 7.65 and push down to 7.50 over the coming weeks. Don't think the cold of Nenagh can equate for 0.2.

cfitz

Irishathlete_1 wrote: »

What age is Mark Hanrahan? If he's under 23 then that's not bad. The rest of the results were very poor in my opinion.

I'm not sure but I think Hanrahan's last year U-23 was in 2007. I haven't been in Nenagh in years, but I reckon it's not too often that someone runs 3:46 down there without anyone to push them.

Mickoshea

Fairly quiet day really wasnt it?very poor turn out but thats munsters. Nationals should be good.

hanrahan's 3.46 is good if he ran it on his own.

Whelans time was ok?well considering second was 8.26 u'd expect her to run faster with a bit of competition it is the first race of the season 2!

4heats for the junior men in the 60 heard they had heats, semis and a final in the space of an hour. Then junior and Senior women had only one race.

thirtyfoot

Unfortunately the 3:46 on the Munster site seems to be a typo as the results on AAI say it was 3:56, which is probably more realistic considering everything.

Fair play to all athletes who got out and competed. We need more athletes supporting the domestic events and competing against each other (says he himself who didn't compete:rolleyes:).

AAI Games are in a couple of weeks so hopefully a few more will compete.

Racing Flat

Tingle wrote: »

Unfortunately the 3:46 on the Munster site seems to be a typo as the results on AAI say it was 3:56, which is probably more realistic considering everything.

Fair play to all athletes who got out and competed. We need more athletes supporting the domestic events and competing against each other (says he himself who didn't compete:rolleyes:).

AAI Games are in a couple of weeks so hopefully a few more will compete.

Damnit! I was getting excited about that 3.46! He ran under 19mins for a 4 mile on Stephen's Day on a tricky enough little course, so he's going well anyhow.

By the way, Masters indoor championships are this weekend I think.

thirtyfoot

Racing Flat wrote: »

Damnit! I was getting excited about that 3.46! He ran under 19mins for a 4 mile on Stephen's Day on a tricky enough little course, so he's going well anyhow.

By the way, Masters indoor championships are this weekend I think.

Do you know who coaches him or where he is based?

Racing Flat

Tingle wrote: »

Do you know who coaches him or where he is based?

From Cork, runs with Leevale. Don't know any more than that, but assumed he was still based there. Ran 4.00 at the Morton mile this year, was so close... 2nd to Colm Rooney in Nat 1500 this summer, perhaps you know all that.

helpisontheway

Mickoshea wrote: »

Fairly quiet day really wasnt it?very poor turn out but thats munsters. Nationals should be good.

hanrahan's 3.46 is good if he ran it on his own.

Whelans time was ok?well considering second was 8.26 u'd expect her to run faster with a bit of competition it is the first race of the season 2!

4heats for the junior men in the 60 heard they had heats, semis and a final in the space of an hour. Then junior and Senior women had only one race.

Would have to disagree,tought the turnout was quiet good for a competition scheduled at relative short notice and so close to christmas!! Id even consider the mens turnout excellent but the jun womens was average and sen women terrible.
Also considering the time of year some excellent performances-

Kate Veale was fantastic in the jun walk considering she is u16!!!! 3km in 14.?? mins!
Chris Russell and David Quilligan in the 200m.
Jer O Donoghue in the 60m 6.91 and ran 3 times within an hour.
Nikita Savage broke the Jun pole vault record with 3metres and is an u18.
Hanrahans 1500
Edmond O Hallorans 8.46 in the Jun 60m H as an u18.

Also good to see some good return performances from Niall Counihan and Laura Crowe.

Nenagh was a also only about -10 degrees in comparison to the -20s in years past:D

Fish'n'Chips

Originally posted by Irishathlete_1
What age is Mark Hanrahan? If he's under 23 then that's not bad. The rest of the results were very poor in my opinion.

Niamh Whelan's 60m was ok, but I would have hoped to see her open at 7.65 and push down to 7.50 over the coming weeks. Don't think the cold of Nenagh can equate for 0.2.

Funny to see Irishathlete_1 being negative for a change :rolleyes:
I myself was expecting to see Irish records go left, right and centre on a badly configured track placed in an ice box on the 4th of January.

ChickenTikka

FishnChips wrote: »

on a badly configured track placed in an ice box on the 4th of January.

Lets not slag off the track in Nenagh. If more clubs had the vision of Nenagh Olympic 20 or more years ago when that track facility came into being, we'd have thriving athletic clubs in every corner of the country nowadays. Its been adopted as our National track because the Government are too Ostrich-like to see the benefits of promoting a sport like athletics and because our National organisation/s cannot get their act together to lobby for and build facilities like this in each region. But remember, its owned by Nenagh Olympic and built primarily for their athletes to train and compete in.

So lets thank Nenagh Olympic for allowing the rest of the country to use their facility even if its not perfect and for taking loads of unfair abuse over the years rather than the lavish praise and funding that they deserve to improve the facility.

Irishathlete_1

I'm not being negitive, just realistic. If Hanrahan runs sub 3:40 indoors then I think that is good running and is something to build on. I guess it all depends on your perspective. There is nothing there jumping off the results page at me. If his run was actually 3:56, then it is nothing better then average.

Also, results at these events in Nenagh are always questionable, so I think there needs to be back up performances to support these before people go getting excited. I'm fully aware of the limitations Nenagh imposes on performances, but even with that in mind, none of these performances are great.

thirtyfoot

I think we maybe need some perspective. Its the Munster Indoors. None of our top end athletes are there.

Irish_athlete 1 you obviously have pretty high standards even for a season opening low key domestic meet, only a sub 3:40 indoors would be something to build on:rolleyes: and thats fair enough but you must a) have seen it all or b) done it all to have such high standard!! Some of the posters here would be coaching and cajoling some of the athletes at this level and try to keep things positive. Jaysus, I remember Tomas Coman running 54 secs for 400's at Munster indoors, you gotta start somewhere. All we are doing here is trying to bring some profile to the most crucial part of our sport.

Its easy to be critical, most of these athletes are young kids. Nobody is doing a song and dance just talking about the meet and the results. Its easy to slag off athletes (not happening here but it could head that way), used to happen lots on other irish athletic chatboards but it won't be happening here so we'll keep it civil. A separate discussion on the decline in standards could be a way to discuss something like this if you wished.

Fish'n'Chips

Exactly Tingle. I think Irishathlete_1 seems to think that if the performances are not of the standard of the World Indoors that it gives he/she an opportunity to try to belittle the athletes. Reality check: IT'S THE MUNSTER INDOOR CHAMPIONSHIPS!!!

Also Chicken Tikka, I wasn't trying to slag off the Nenagh track - Nenagh Olympic were ahead of their time (in Ireland) in building it but the reality is the track was built within the confines of a disused cattle mart and there is no heating in it so obviously performances won't be anywhere near as good on it as they would be on a Birmingham/Sheffield track etc. That's the point I was trying to make.

thirtyfoot

FishnChips wrote: »

. I think Irishathlete_1 seems to think that if the performances are not of the standard of the World Indoors that it gives he/she an opportunity to try to belittle the athletes.

Lets not have IrishAthlete_1 vs Fish'n'Chips Celebrity Deathmatch Rd 2 here. I don't think he/she was trying to belittle athletes.

Racing Flat

FishnChips wrote: »

Nenagh Olympic were ahead of their time (in Ireland) in building it but the reality is the track was built within the confines of a disused cattle mart and there is no heating in it so obviously performances won't be anywhere near as good on it as they would be on a Birmingham/Sheffield track etc. That's the point I was trying to make.

I remember people complaining about the cold in this place when I was in athletics fiorst around 20 years ago, around the time it was opened IIRC. Perhaps this a stupid question but why can't they just install heating?

thirtyfoot

Racing Flat wrote: »

Perhaps this a stupid question but why can't they just install heating?

Money I'd imagine and if the committment for further funding wasn't there in the past 10 years they have little chance now. The insulation is crap as it is literally a hayshed so having heaters would mean most of the heat would escape I'd say.

Irishathlete_1

Admitedly I do not know all of the athlete's competing and their backgrounds, but to me a good performance (even in a munster champs) is a performance that indicates the athlete could push through to bigger and better things over the coming weeks.

Can you quantify the performances? IE: Has someone run 7.3 for the 60m in the senior men, but this has come down from a PB of 7.6 from last year, or someone who dropped to a 1:51 from a 2:00? These would be excellent performances in my opinion. From the athletes I know of and have seen compete, I was not that impressed with their openers at this event. As an example of this, Jer O'D. He is a good club athlete who always threatens to produce more and to make a breakthrough with his early season performances. His 6.91 was not great in my view. If he had run 2 consistent times of say 6.91, 6.90 then 6.78 in the final I would be as excited as anybody to see this guy realise his potential. Sadly I can't see this happening. Before people start jumping all over this and say I am slagging off Jer, I am not, I am just pointing out what I would class as decent performances and using him as an example. There are many more.

Irish athletics sometimes needs a reality check and for athletes to be honest with themselves. That is not being negative, just realistic. If athletes are honest about their targets for the season and they acheive those goals, then they are good performances.

thirtyfoot

Irishathlete_1 wrote: »

Admitedly I do not know all of the athlete's competing and their backgrounds,

Irishathlete_1 wrote: »

If athletes are honest about their targets for the season and they acheive those goals, then they are good performances.

Well if you don't know athletes or their background it can be hard to gauge what there goals are etc, what training they did over winter, was this race a shake out, were they injured etc etc.

As I said, its easy to criticise and by saying that only a sub 3:40 1500 indoors is good running may give the impression that your standards are higher (much, much higher) than all of ours.

As regards reality checks, you are right. Many of the few athletes we have may have notions above themselves and probably don't put themselves on the line and compete against each other enough (unlike those in Nenagh last week) but thats probably up to the coaches and administrators to encourage them and create a relevant domestic competition environment.

Just out of interest and you obviously don't have to answer but it might give your posts some context if you do, how are you involved in the sport in Ireland and at what level - athlete, coach, parent, administrator, fan? If we know it might lead some people less to believe that you are just another negative nora sitting and critisizing behind a keyboard.

Irishathlete_1

No problem. I was an athlete to university level and competed at all under age levels from Celtic Games U15 through to University. I have coached athletes from 3 different countries across a number of sprints/hurdles events with varying degrees of success. I have worked within the sport of Track & Field at both an elite and mass participation level across the world over the last 15 years in various roles from coach to journalist to administrator. I'd rather not go into specifics with athlete's etc, but to the extreme's there were club athletes who improved from a 52 to a 48 400m time and at the top end an athlete who finished 4th at a World Championships. I am happy to discuss coaching, performances, mentoring, psychology etc...I am based between Ireland and the UK at the moment and am currently not coaching anyone.

Tingle - I agree that athletes in Ireland should compete against each other on a regular basis and in all honesty, they should train together too. We do not have the strength in depth to have 5 'elite' sprinters training with 5 different coaches. Nor do we have the coaching talent to provide this support across the base of athletes as it currently stands.

Events like the Munster Indoor Champs could be used very constructively if, for example, there was a national 400m program where an elite coach was coaching a relay pool of 8 people, who were funded by the ISC/AAI with the aim being to have a competitive relay team at all major champs (EG: Poland circa 1999/2000). If this were to happen, then as part of their funding these athletes would compete in these events, which would give younger athletes the chance to witness, at close quarters, 4/5 athletes run sub 48 indoors etc....and hopefully inspire them to continue in athletics and to give them a clearly defined pathway towards international success.

If I have come across as negative, it is only because I truly believe that the talent is there in Ireland to develop a world class T&F program, but that this talent is being wasted and the administration is just laughable. You see athletes like David Gillick, David Campbell, Ro McGettigan etc...who are all making the most out of the talent they have got and none of whom are based in Ireland or coached by Irish coaches. There may be more naturally talented athletes, who do not have the guidance or simply the balls to take a risk, that would lead to them making the most of their ability.

Hopefully that will give you a perspective of where I am coming from when I post on performances etc....

Fish'n'Chips

Finally we agree on something Irishathlete_1!! I totally agree with you that there needs to be a professional coaching structure in this country to help realise the raw potential that athletes here undoubtedly have.

Having a good Director of Athletics in place in AAI would be the first step in putting in this type of structure. Unfortunately the Irish Sports Council are trying to stall this process as a political maneuver. It's a pity we can't just all get along...

DangerMouse27

Hold on Irishathlete1...gotta pull you up on the Jer O'D comments...the space between all the heats,semis and finals were ridiculously short for ultra fast times.So much so that the track prog got left behind by 3/4 of an hour!! Second..its the first time all year that alot of these athletes have had indoor running this year and i dont care who you are but 22.88 for 200m in a first outing of the year is not bad considering the restrictions indoor tracks have on speed.

There is a director of Athletics....Gary Ryan and he was down there as well
And in fairness to Gillick et al, they are training with athletes who are better than them and are seeing imrpovement that way..Gillicks training mate..Martyn Rooney nuff said.

As for the talent being wasted,i can hardly agree with that, John Coglan gave up a chance to join a scholarship to the U.S and an infinitley better distance running prog, while Roisin McGettigan is involved in such a prog.Only time will tell if Coglan can get the most out of himself on these shores.

The 400m squad is a good idea though but dont say that to any International class 400m runners though...the mere mention of 'Project 400' can say volumes of what is wrong with Admin Athletics Ireland.

Irishathlete_1

Dangermouse - On Jer O'D, only time will tell I guess, but my money would be on him not running much quicker then 6.85 at best. I hope I am wrong and I will take my hat off to the guy if he finally breaks through to running 6.5's/low 6.6's.

It is not simply the choice of training partner that sees an improvement in an athlete. If you look at 2007, Gillick finished the season ahead of Rooney and went further then him in Osaka. It is down to the coaching knowledge and expertise out there. Look at Paul Hession, which of his training group is dragging him along??

As you can't use Coughlan as an example yet, as he's only had a year outside of the school's set up. Lets look at examples of athlete's who stayed in Ireland to further their careers after being very talented and promising juniors. Mark Christie (4th Euro Junior XC), Linda Byrne (Euro U23 XC, good steeple times etc...), Aoife Byrne (2:01 as first year U23
) and Danny D'Arcy (3:42 (?) 1500m as a junior) are three who immediately spring to mind. They have each gone backwards over the last few years after staying in Ireland to further their careers rather then taking up options abroad. Granted Linda Byrne is still U23 and could turn this around, in my opinion this won't happen though.

There are always exceptions too like Fionnula Britton, but these are few and far between now a days. We always have very good juniors who do not progress through to senior level and realise their potential and this is what we need to change which is where I think heightened expectations and use of these meets can be important.

I don't know enough about Project 400 to comment on this one, sorry!

thirtyfoot

Irishathlete_1 wrote: »

. Look at Paul Hession, which of his training group is dragging him along??

I would imagine Nick Smith at 6.64 would put it up to Hesh (6.61) on shorter stuff and McKee when he was around and maybe Doyle on longer stuff would have pushed him too. In reality the only one dragging Hesh along is Hesh but it depends on the athlete. Other athletes require a good/better training partner to drag them along, other like to be the daddy of the group. Not everyone can be the daddy though. Gillick left Ireland probably because he needed more competition in training.

thirtyfoot

DangerMouse27 wrote: »

director of Athletics....Gary Ryan .

He is Director of Coaching and has done a super job on the ground and with all our upcoming juniors.

There is no Director of Athletics, Max Jones left and recruitment took place and a candidate has been found. Irish Sports Council are dragging their heels and refusing to authorise despite the chosen candidate having an athletic CV to die for.

The following is a sample of what or who he has coached or managed:

Fastest Irish male or female athletes at men 110H, womens 100H & 400H
Fastest Irish sprinter ever
Irish record long jumper (8m+)
Olympic Long Jump Champion
Olympic Decathlon Champion
Olympic 100m Champion
3 members of the fastest relay team ever.
World Shot Putt champion

I'm sure there is more...

Has respect of a large majority of global elite athletes, meet directors, athletic media, IAAF staff. Has accomodated many Irish athletes down through the years at overseas training camps in his own home, for free. Learned his trade (before going solo) from one of the greatest speed/sprint coaches in US Track. A genuine guy without the bullsh*t and easy talk that we are so often exposed to. Can relate to a 61 sec female 400m runner or a 9.7 male 100m runner.

Obviously not the man for Director of Irish athletics, lets hold out for the right candidate like another Max Jones:rolleyes: who maybe sees this as a retirement gig. This guy is in his 30's.

He interviewed for the Irish job and got it yet the position is still vacant. Fish'N'Chips alluded to it, POLITICS. Its sad. As an athlete and coach it makes me sad. The guy might bomb and be crap but at least give him a go. I fear if he does gets it his life will be hell as those who oppose it will strive to undermine and wait in the grass. Who loses in all this. The athletes, as usual.

Rineanna

Tingle wrote: »

He is Director of Coaching and has done a super job on the ground and with all our upcoming juniors.

There is no Director of Athletics, Max Jones left and recruitment took place and a candidate has been found. Irish Sports Council are dragging their heels and refusing to authorise despite the chosen candidate having an athletic CV to die for.

The following is a sample of what or who he has coached or managed:

Fastest Irish male or female athletes at men 110H, womens 100H & 400H
Fastest Irish sprinter ever
Irish record long jumper (8m+)
Olympic Long Jump Champion
Olympic Decathlon Champion
Olympic 100m Champion
3 members of the fastest relay team ever.
World Shot Putt champion

I'm sure there is more...

Has respect of a large majority of global elite athletes, meet directors, athletic media, IAAF staff. Has accomodated many Irish athletes down through the years at overseas training camps in his own home, for free. Learned his trade (before going solo) from one of the greatest speed/sprint coaches in US Track. A genuine guy without the bullsh*t and easy talk that we are so often exposed to. Can relate to a 61 sec female 400m runner or a 9.7 male 100m runner.
Obviously not the man for Director of Irish athletics, lets hold out for the right candidate like another Max Jones:rolleyes: who maybe sees this as a retirement gig. This guy is in his 30's.

He interviewed for the Irish job and got it yet the position is still vacant. Fish'N'Chips alluded to it, POLITICS. Its sad. As an athlete and coach it makes me sad. The guy might bomb and be crap but at least give him a go. I fear if he does gets it his life will be hell as those who oppose it will strive to undermine and wait in the grass. Who loses in all this. The athletes, as usual.

If that's who I'm 99.99% sure it is, then wow! He would be absolutely fantastic, and a fantastic coup for Irish Athletics. He would bring so much experience and knowledge, at still a very young age, and breathe some life, direction and professionalism into the sport. I'm sure there are many other national athletics organisations worldwide who would love to have him on board, but let's hope his other half makes him wait for the Irish job, if it ever gets approved.

The vested interests, politics and empire building in Irish sport, and athletics in particular, genuinely leaves me demoralised. It also makes my skin creep that some pathetic individuals, who are so selfish and lack any sort of long term vision of the damage their actions (or lack thereof) are having on the sport, can hold it to ransom. They most certainly don't have the sport's best interest at heart. I daren't think the state the sport could be in without all this, and how many athletes have fallen by the wayside as a consequence.

I wonder is there a case for contacting one's local TD? I'm pretty sure that with the current economic events, they couldn't care less, but the ISC and AAI are tax payer bankrolled organisations, and are NOT giving an adequate ROI on that money IMO. Though, isn't there something about the ISC being separate from the Government's control, or something?

Sorry for the rant, but as a passionate supporter of the sport, like everyone here, I'm seriously worried for its future development. I could pull out the well worn problems such as the absence of any adequate indoor facility this side of the border for training/international competition, but I think the problems affecting the fundamental values and workings of the Sport are a much more grave concern.

DangerMouse27

IrishAthlete_1

Here are a few links which might explain project 400 better.......

project400.net
and
www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/olympics-beijing-baton-charge-drops-short-for-magnificent-seven-1436269.html

this second one is pretty forthright and appeared in the national press

Fish'n'Chips

Irishathlete_1,

Just out of interest in what event and what world championship did you coach an athlete to 4th place?