The right to free speech

newbie2 · 04-01-2009 1:03am #1

This may have been covered before (MOds please move or delete whrere approp...). Just watched 'The people v's Larry Flint with the wife and it got me wondering. What'd the law be around these parts? Do we have such a strict constitional right - like the right to bear arms?

evercloserunion · 04-01-2009 1:36am

I haven't seen the movie but the question of free speech is more of an Irish constitutional question and so shouldn't really be in the EU section. AFAIK free speech is a personal right protected by article 40.3 of B na hE. It is not absolute however and must be balanced against others' right to privacy, good name, the common good etc.

oscarBravo · 04-01-2009 2:51pm

Moved.

Dark_lord_ire · 04-01-2009 3:02pm

its fine up to the point where is becomes abusive or violent then the guards have powers under public order act 1994

Permabear · 04-01-2009 7:49pm

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Dark_lord_ire · 05-01-2009 2:29am

i think it means that the state can protect itself from propaganda i.e if we had our own nazi party spreading lies about the government ( oh wait we do sinn fein) lol but there is a difference between saying a government minister is bad at getting us out of a recession and ripping down the gates of the dail to get at him

Húrin · 05-01-2009 2:55am

donegalfella wrote: »

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It is fortunate that our constitution was written in a more criticial age than under the influence of naive Enlightenment rationalism.

Húrin · 05-01-2009 2:57am

Dark_lord_ire wrote: »

i think it means that the state can protect itself from propaganda i.e if we had our own nazi party spreading lies about the government ( oh wait we do sinn fein) lol but there is a difference between saying a government minister is bad at getting us out of a recession and ripping down the gates of the dail to get at him

I expect it is more making a provision so that the Gardai can investigate people who are doing things like calling for a revolution, certain people to be killed, overthrow of the state, etc.

The same thing happens in the USA too, btw.

Blackjack · 05-01-2009 3:08am

Remarkably Ireland scores consistently strongly in the Reporting Sans Frontiers Annual Index on Freedom of the press.
Latest one here.

Permabear · 05-01-2009 11:21am

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Nodin · 05-01-2009 11:46am

Húrin wrote: »

It is fortunate that our constitution was written in a more criticial age than under the influence of naive Enlightenment rationalism.

Quite the opposite. It was a lost opportunity and unforgivable, seeing that there was the American example to look to. Thankfully large parts of it are effectively defunct.

turgon · 05-01-2009 4:23pm

donegalfella wrote: »

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That is in the past though. I fully understand you concern regarding the constitution, but its not as if were in some Soviet state. As one poster said, Ireland is ranked very very highly in the freedom of press.

Plus, if you were publishing something that did undermine the "authority of the state", Im sure you wouldnt be on your own, and at that stage youd have a bit of a rebellion going.

Permabear · 05-01-2009 4:53pm

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turgon · 05-01-2009 5:16pm

donegalfella wrote: »

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I am completely in support with you on this issue, and I find the wording flawed. Free speech should not be curtailed, and if the authority of the stae were in question, Im sure the people should be allowed to decide if this criticism is true.

donegalfella wrote: »

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I was merely pointing out the differences between the theory and the practice by highlighting the fact that this article is probably rarely invoked with a view to curtailing political canvasing. But you are right in that it could be invoked, were that to be the vested interest of the government. But I doubt any government would have support amongst the population for a campaign to suppress views contrary to that of the leading party.

andrew · 22-01-2009 12:42am

donegalfella wrote: »

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Thats all in the past. The Blasphemy law has been tested before. Since it's pretty obvious that well...it's crap, the Judges decided that they couldn't define blasphemy and threw the case out. So the blasphemy law, while on the books, is a now defunct reminant of a more conservative time and has no bearing anymore.

Manic Moran · 22-01-2009 7:03am

Do we have such a strict constitional right - like the right to bear arms?

Interesting choice of example, as that's one of the few US Constitutional rights which is not currently subject to 'strict scrutiny,' unlike the right to Free Speech.

I think it's wrong, but acknowledge that my interpretation is not universally held.

NTM

OhNoYouDidn't · 22-01-2009 11:03am

I think, with the exception of issues around the practical application of libel law, that we have a reasonably good balance in Ireland on free speech at the moment.

evercloserunion · 22-01-2009 1:39pm

Agree with the above. A previous poster said it was "remarkable" that we ranked highly for freedom of press, I don't think so at all. I can't really think of any major cases of censorship in the press. The only broadcasters who are in any way censored are RTÉ because of the McKenna and Coughlan judgements, which are problematic, but only apply in respect of referendums and elections.

Libel law is a rather problematic area. The main gripe I would have with libel law in Ireland is that libel cases do not come within the scope of the Civil Legal Aid Act 1995. Because of this, someone who is sued for libel and cannot afford their own legal aid is left to represent themselves against the potentially formiddable counsel for a plaintiff who may be quite wealthy. Thus free speech can be silenced simply by threats of libel actions. this is the case in both Ireland and the UK, despite having been condemned by the European Court of Human Rights in respect of each country.

Blackjack · 22-01-2009 10:48pm

evercloserunion wrote: »

Agree with the above. A previous poster said it was "remarkable" that we ranked highly for freedom of press, I don't think so at all. I can't really think of any major cases of censorship in the press. The only broadcasters who are in any way censored are RTÉ because of the McKenna and Coughlan judgements, which are problematic, but only apply in respect of referendums and elections.

Libel law is a rather problematic area. The main gripe I would have with libel law in Ireland is that libel cases do not come within the scope of the Civil Legal Aid Act 1995. Because of this, someone who is sued for libel and cannot afford their own legal aid is left to represent themselves against the potentially formiddable counsel for a plaintiff who may be quite wealthy. Thus free speech can be silenced simply by threats of libel actions. this is the case in both Ireland and the UK, despite having been condemned by the European Court of Human Rights in respect of each country.

"Remarkably" in the context of which I mentioned it, meant specifically meant worthy of being defined or remarked upon, as opposed to "Unbelievably" which may be how many may have construed.

The right to free speech

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