Any help gratefully apppreciated - am very new to this!

popsicles

Hi there

i am completely new to boards.ie and wondering if anyone can help. i am currently off work sick with stress - which is caused by bullying by a manager. it is not something i can address with senior management cos the company is basically a complete joke and anyone who has previously raised issues have been either alienated or let go!
i havent told them reason i am off - just ill. i am being hassled while i am off about when i am going back etc which is causing further stress! i also feel like i cant leave house cos if anyone sees me they will give me third degree!

i am just wondering is it possible to resign while on sick leave? would i get continue to get social welfare sick pay until i get a new job? my intention is to get a new job before returning to work but with things as they are its proving difficult. any advice would be gratefully accepted as i am very worried and stressed about this : (

many thanks!

MagicMarker

You can resign at any stage, just call them and tell them you won't be coming back.

I doubt you'll still get sick pay from the social welfare (how were you getting this in the first place?) but you'll be entitled to the dole like everyone else. When you apply just tell them your reasons for leaving and they should start payments ASAP (usually takes a couple of weeks).

AARRRGH

I'm nearly certain if you resign you have to wait 8 or 9 weeks before you can claim the dole. I think you're supposed to sign on straight away though.

So, you have three options -

1. Stay off sick. Note you CAN be let go if your employer feels your illness makes you incapable of doing your job. url=http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/employment/employment-rights-and-conditions/leave-and-holidays/sick_leave]in here somewhere[/url
2. Resign and be without money for two months. And possibly without a job for longer.
3. Go back to work and try to sort this out with your boss.

Personally I would go with option 3. I would go back to work and arrange a meeting with my boss. I would tell her how I feel, how I would like to develop a good relationship with her, and how I would like her to talk to me about the best way I can do a job she would be happy with.

Worst case scenario it doesn't work out, and you go off sick or resign...

MagicMarker

If you leave of your own accord you have to wait a number of weeks before you can claim anything, but afaik that's not the case if you are forced to leave because of something like bullying.

popsicles

I am g sick pay cos i was getting migraines and vomitting from the stress of working there. i went to the doc who said i was suffering from stress. i am being bullied and intimidated by a manager there who is a personal friend of the owner. i had a meeting before but nothing was resolved. going back is not an option....just wondering re dole payments as i had heard you dont get that if you resign from a job. is this the case even if i feel i have been constructively dismissed?

i would like to add i have a perfect employment history and up to this was never out ONE day sick or even late so i am not someone who is just looking for an easy option or something like that!

AARRRGH

As stated, if you resign you won't get the dole for 8 or 9 weeks.

LegacyUser

Do you have an employee assistance officer (or someone in HR that does something similar?) you can go to and talk about it in confidence? If so, I would do that. Maybe they could give you advice on how to deal with it or how to talk to your manager. Or even your manager's manager. You could also try the union if you have one. They might have someone who could advise you. Not necessarily your local rep.

LegacyUser

You could also get a solicitor and sue them. Just make sure you document all instances of bullying and how they forced you out of the job. Also get a doctors note on the effect the bullying is having on you.

popsicles

Aarrgghh if you see above post other posters say if you are being bulliend it is a differerent story than just leaving a perfectly good job!

AARRRGH

I'm sorry I am not giving you the answer you came here to read, but if you resign, you won't get the dole for 8 or 9 weeks.

Even if you do have a case for constructive dismissal, the people in the dole office won't give a ****.

I don't mean to be harsh, but if you quit today and walk into the dole office on Monday, they are not going to give you money based on your opinion that you were bullied out of the office.

Of course, if you go the legal route, it is possible you will be able to claim the dole for the 8 or 9 weeks, but I would imagine this is something which is not guaranteed, and which wouldn't be possible until after your legal case, e.g. perhaps a few years.

MagicMarker

AARRRGH wrote: »

I'm sorry I am not giving you the answer you came here to read, but if you resign, you won't get the dole for 8 or 9 weeks.

Even if you do have a case for constructive dismissal, the people in the dole office won't give a ****.

I don't mean to be harsh, but if you quit today and walk into the dole office on Monday, they are not going to give you money based on your opinion that you were bullied out of the office.

Of course, if you go the legal route, it is possible you will be able to claim the dole for the 8 or 9 weeks, but I would imagine this is something which is not guaranteed, and which wouldn't be possible until after your legal case, e.g. perhaps a few years.

That's not true, when you make the application they will ask you why you left, they do that for a reason. If you tell them it was because of work place bullying they will take that into consideration. Whether or not they give you the dole straight away is at their discretion and they may even call the employer to ''investigate'', but there's a good chance they will start payments as soon as the decision is reached due to the circumstances.

AARRRGH

Sure, I am not saying she shouldn't try it, but I would be very surprised if it works out for her.

I just don't see the point in getting her hopes up for something which is unlikely.

lollipop08

Sorry to hear this as i know it can be very upsetting
Check out Citizens Info Centres as they have a load of info and leaflets on this subject as do the Dept of Trade and Enterprise even if you are working in the private sector

Siptu and other unions have vast experience and info to give out on this subject too
Dont be afraid to phone the social welfare themselves they have a helpline unanimous aswell!!

Also can people giving advice on this subject please be a little bit more sensitive repeating what you previously said with curse words, can be deemed as exactly the same behaviour as the bully.

Make sure to keep a written record of all conversations with your boss in case it goes any further.
I think its also important to keep your friends close and keep seeking support.
Best of luck
I really despise bullies

AARRRGH

lollipop08 wrote: »

Also can people giving advice on this subject please be a little bit more sensitive repeating what you previously said with curse words, can be deemed as exactly the same behaviour as the bully.

What?

popsicles

Thank you lollipop08 and magicmaker for your constructive and helpful advice. i will look into it. i really hate bullies too - i have never bullied anyone in my life and was very good at my job. part of the bullying was this person trying to take the credit for my work and spreading rumours about me which were completely untrue.

i will let you know how i get on! am sure the dole people will be understanding - i am not planning on being out of work long - will waitress - anything at all. sitting at home doesnt suit me - but neither does being intimidated and dreading going to work each morning!

AARRRGH

popsicles wrote: »

Thank you lollipop08 and magicmaker for your constructive and helpful advice.

:rolleyes:

I'm sorry you don't like my advice, but you'll find it is correct.

Honestly, as someone who works in recruitment, there are nearly no jobs out there at the moment. So not only do you risk not getting the dole for 9 weeks, but you also risk being unemployed for a long time.

Seriously, consider my advice. Or at least, ring the dole office before you quit to see if they are sympathetic to your situation.

popsicles wrote:

part of the bullying was this person trying to take the credit for my work

Every manager does that. It's not bullying.

popsicles

I worked in management roles myself for last 5 years and i dont do that. but i do appreciate everyones advice. i know there are not huge amount of jobs out there and you are right to tell me to consider my options but i wouldnt be considering this if i wasnt desperate. have never walked out of a job in my life and usually take a dim view of those who do .....but now i realise that life is too short for putting up this this kind of rubbish and my mental and physiacl health is more important. the industry i work in is not as affected by the credit crunch as some....and i have excellent education and experience so i am not saying i will walk into a new job tomorrow but i will have a bit better chance than some people in other industries or those who lack experience/qualifications. will let you all know how i get on and thanks for help!

AARRRGH

popsicles wrote: »

i realise that life is too short for putting up this this kind of rubbish and my mental and physiacl health is more important.

Yeah, you're right.

The relief you'll feel when you quit will be immense.

You should probably take the risk and just resign.

popsicles wrote: »

the industry i work in is not as affected by the credit crunch as some....and i have excellent education and experience so i am not saying i will walk into a new job tomorrow but i will have a bit better chance than some people in other industries or those who lack experience/qualifications.

OK, that's good to hear.

Best of luck whatever you do.

popsicles

Thanks a mil :rolleyes:

and i hope economy picks up for all of us sooner rather than later so dont feel trapped to stay in a job we hate! Happy New Year!

Big_Mac

If you do walk out, then at least try to bring a case of constructive dismissal. My friend works in a place that is the most abysmally managed establishment I have ever come across and I work in managment too. People will continue to get away with this sort of stuff so long as nothing happens to them over it. If a case was brought against them, lessons might be learned and they may think twice about it in the future.

AARRRGH

Big_Mac wrote: »

If you do walk out, then at least try to bring a case of constructive dismissal. People will continue to get away with this sort of stuff so long as nothing happens to them over it.

I'm not trying to doubt the OP, but it works both ways. I know of many utterly useless employees who pin their incompetence on bullying. In my opinion it is just as common for the employee to be deluded/a liar as it is for the employer to be an asshole!

But sure, if you genuinely think you have a case (i.e. you are capable of being honest with yourself about what is happening and why it is happening) then go for it.

InReality

AARRRGH wrote: »

I'm nearly certain if you resign you have to wait 8 or 9 weeks before you can claim the dole. I think you're supposed to sign on straight away though.

So, you have three options -

1. Stay off sick. Note you CAN be let go if your employer feels your illness makes you incapable of doing your job. URL="http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/employment/employment-rights-and-conditions/leave-and-holidays/sick_leave"]in here somewhere[/URL
2. Resign and be without money for two months. And possibly without a job for longer.
3. Go back to work and try to sort this out with your boss.

Personally I would go with option 3. I would go back to work and arrange a meeting with my boss. I would tell her how I feel, how I would like to develop a good relationship with her, and how I would like her to talk to me about the best way I can do a job she would be happy with.

Worst case scenario it doesn't work out, and you go off sick or resign...

I'd go with 1 for a while until you get your head together and don't worry about going back or anything like that. esp if you've already had a meeting about it with bosses.
I had a similar situation , let my doc decide how i was doing , sent in a sick cert to work every 2 weeks.
After about 2/3 months , and some anti-depressants I felt like going back to work , and more able for it. Was put in a different role and manager and much better for a while.

So basically, I'd rest and get your mental health in order.

And I probably don't need to say this , but don't take all the replies on this thread to heart. There are bound to be a few negative ones about "skiving off" and other such misinformed viewpoints.

AARRRGH

InReality wrote: »

There are bound to be a few negative ones about "skiving off" and other such misinformed viewpoints.

Are you trying to say there aren't employees who take the piss...?

I happen to know two who are pretending to be stressed so they don't have to return to work. It really does happen.

I believe the OP is telling the truth though, although I don't agree "my boss takes credit for my work" is bullying as nearly every boss does that.

LegacyUser

thanks for advice.
AAAARGGGHH i do not know what other scams people pull but i can assure you i am not one of those people. i have a new house and am getting married this year so financially really need to be working. my boss taking credit for my work was a specific situ where he was at a meeting and a project which i had done - a 38 page document and gave to him to pass on to a senior director - the director said 'wow i am impressed - how long did that take you - must have been weeks' to which he replied ' yeah i have been burning the candles both ends'. however i cannot confront him on it as the person who told me feels their job would be at risk - catch 22!

cooperguy

I dont know what form this bullying takes but instead of quiting without another job lined up (it really is very hard to find a job out there) could you just take an attitude that you just wont put up with it? I know that is alot easier said than done but lets say part of it is you are given an unreasonable amount of work, you dont stress yourself about doing it by the end of the day or whenever and just work at a reasonable speed until its done. If you are given unreasonable deadlines you simply say when you are given them its not possible to have it done by then however I can have it done by..... If its verbal bullying loudly state that what is being said is unacceptable and will not be listened to and just walk away.

Maybe I am taking a very simplistic approach but maybe it could work. The bullying might even stop (unlikely I know). You can be looking for a job then while you stay in your old one.

The worst that could happen is that they decide to fire you but you were going to quit anyway therefore nothing to loose. Presumably you wouldnt be getting a reference either way

pirelli

popsicles wrote: »

I am g sick pay cos i was getting migraines and vomitting from the stress of working there. i went to the doc who said i was suffering from stress. i am being bullied and intimidated by a manager there who is a personal friend of the owner. i had a meeting before but nothing was resolved. going back is not an option....just wondering re dole payments as i had heard you dont get that if you resign from a job. is this the case even if i feel i have been constructively dismissed?

i would like to add i have a perfect employment history and up to this was never out ONE day sick or even late so i am not someone who is just looking for an easy option or something like that!

You have not been constructively dismissed as you have not even informed your company that your stressed because of bullying etc....You must be upfront.

You can get disability benefit when your off work which is what you are on.
You don't have to get into the nitty gritty with the social welfare when making your claim and you can get emergency assistance from the health board, if your stuck for money while waiting your payment.

At this stage you don't have a strong case for constructive dismissal and you haven't told your employer why your actually sick so forget about an unfair dismissal if your sacked for being sick, you must tell your employer and he must try to help you and only then can you claim unfair dismissal.

You must be upfront and honest. If there is a history with this Manager/supervisor then follow the correct guidelines.
If your up to it return to work and explain why you are sick. Make a complaint and explain exactly where what and when and why you feel he has bullied you and made you sick. Migrains are not only brought about by bullying, they have many other causes also. Stress is a factor and if there is a good cause they might re deploy you or him or assign easier dutied taking the stress into account.

If you do all that then you find they discriminate then you might have a case, but you must have a good case to start with, as it standd he isn't even aware you have a complaint against him or that you feel bullied. He will automatically win. You must make him aware of the issue.


More importantly you must make your employer aware your sick its cause etc..

PK2008

popsicles wrote: »

it is not something i can address with senior management cos the company is basically a complete joke and anyone who has previously raised issues have been either alienated or let go!

Whatever you decide to do you should defintely report this to senior management, even if you believe they wont do anything, if there is some kind of investigation in the future at least you can say that you followed the proper procedure.

the_syco

Mainly you don't get the dole for 6 or 8 weeks (it'll be backdated), so you try to get a job in the meantime. No-one would look for a job otherwise

popsicles

is the dole backdated?
i thought you just didnt get any money at all for those weeks? didnt realise you got it in one lump at end of that time?

parsi

If you leave a job of your own accord then you will not be paid for up to 9 weeks. This is up to the Deciding Officer who decides your claim - you can submit materials arguing your case that there were reasons why you left i.e. you didn't just storm out in a strop or were chucked out for theft.

Edit: see http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/social-welfare/social-welfare-payments/unemployed-people/unemployment_benefit