Christening Gift from an Atheist?

MelanieD

My husband has been asked to be godfather for our niece's christening in a few weeks time. Neither of us believe in god. What would be an appropriate non religious gift?

We have ruled out The God Delusion' book.:D

zenith

Showing your caring for the mite's material wellbeing - rather than presenting totems and idols! - would be adequately shown by prize bonds or savings certs. I reckon.

MrPudding

MelanieD wrote: »

We have ruled out The God Delusion' book.:D

Arse. There goes my suggestion.

What Zenith says...

MrP

Dades

MelanieD wrote: »

What would be an appropriate non religious gift?

I didn't think it was tradition to gift something religious?

Unless it was a holy white envelope!

PDN

I think the best gift would be one of honesty.

He should simply say, "I respect your right to practice your religion, and I will attend the Christening as a mark of our friendship. But please don't ask me to be a hypocrite and a liar by making a bunch of promises that I have no intention of keeping."

rockbeer

My partner was in the same situation. She bought the child a solid silver spirit measure.

Brings a whole new meaning to the term 'holy spirit'.

Yavvy

nappies or baby grows or a tonka truck or somethign..

or a tee Shirt witht eh buddie Jesus on it

Ciaran500

PDN wrote: »

He should simply say, "I respect your right to practice your religion, and I will attend the Christening as a mark of our friendship. But please don't ask me to be a hypocrite and a liar by making a bunch of promises that I have no intention of keeping."

Do they sell these cards in just any shop?

robindch

MelanieD wrote: »

My husband has been asked to be godfather for our niece's christening in a few weeks time. Neither of us believe in god.

Not the most foresightful choice, it has to be said -- do they know that you're both atheists?

I'm with PDN on this one. The ceremony will require you to promise that you ensure the religious indoctrination of the kid, so unless you're happy breaking promises or indoctrinating kids, then godparenthood is probably something that's best avoided.

The NSS in the UK has a few semi-appropriate pressies though:

http://www.secularism.org.uk/shop.html?eshopid=103961
http://www.secularism.org.uk/shop.html?eshopid=85855

getz

MelanieD wrote: »

My husband has been asked to be godfather for our niece's christening in a few weeks time. Neither of us believe in god. What would be an appropriate non religious gift?

We have ruled out The God Delusion' book.:D

buy a silver christening tube from any good high street jewellers,it is used to put birth/christening certificates in ,or anything silver[eggcup and spoon ect]that is the traditional gifts

Yavvy

unless they are willing to brainwa.. Indoctirn the kid into the religion.. cant imagine anyone who would but you nver know..this is the internet afterall

rockbeer

robindch wrote: »

The ceremony will require you to promise that you ensure the religious indoctrination of the kid

Not necessarily I don't think. But they should certainly find out exactly what it is they're signing up to.

Rev Hellfire

It all depends on how religious they are.

For many its simply a nice ceremony. A sort of a pre-coming of age (a debs for babies) and getting asked to stand for the child is a show of friendship. Simple as, quite similar to say the 'Christian' weddings you'll get in Japan with fake priest and all, its all about the trapping and pomp

If you want to buy a gift then just by one as you would for any baby and then head along enjoy the ceremony with the inevitable drinks along with food which must surely follow.

MelanieD

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

It all depends on how religious they are.

For many its simply a nice ceremony. A sort of a pre-coming of age (a debs for babies) and getting asked to stand for the child is a show of friendship. Simple as, quite similar to say the 'Christian' weddings you'll get in Japan with fake priest and all, its all about the trapping and pomp

If you want to buy a gift then just by one as you would for any baby and then head along enjoy the ceremony with the inevitable drinks along with food which must surely follow.

Religion aside, my husband believe it's a privilege to be asked to be the child's guardian if anything ever happens to the child.

We have a five month old baby, so I will make sure we are sitting near the back of the church in case she gets splashed with holy water.:D

Goduznt Xzst

MelanieD wrote: »

Religion aside, my husband believe it's a privilege to be asked to be the child's guardian if anything ever happens to the child.

No doubt it is a privilege, but I think you owe it to them to clarify whether you intend to raise their child as a Christian should they pass. I know if some of my religious friends asked myself and my wife to be God Parents I would need to specify with them my principles and what I would and would not be teaching their child.

Jumpy

A Simpsons Figurine of Nelson pointing with a pushbutton "Ha Ha"

axer

MelanieD wrote: »

Religion aside, my husband believe it's a privilege to be asked to be the child's guardian if anything ever happens to the child.

We have a five month old baby, so I will make sure we are sitting near the back of the church in case she gets splashed with holy water.:D

Did you ever wonder why it is called God Parents? A god parent sponsors a child's baptism like you do for confirmation etc. If you do not believe in god then you cannot perform this duty.

You can have non-christian witnesses at the baptism but they are not god parents.

PDN

MelanieD wrote: »

Religion aside, my husband believe it's a privilege to be asked to be the child's guardian if anything ever happens to the child.

We have a five month old baby, so I will make sure we are sitting near the back of the church in case she gets splashed with holy water.:D

Religion aside, if your husband wants that responsibility then he needs to work that out with a lawyer. Acting as godparent has no legal standing in becoming the child's guardian.

The only commitment your husband makes by acting as godparent is that he will ensure the child is raised in the Catholic faith if the parents fail to do so, or if the parents die. Religion aside, it means nothing.

By affirming that he meets the requirements to be a godparent at a Catholic christening, your husband is making the following statements.

a) That he is over 16 years of age.
b) That he is a baptised & confirmed Catholic.
c) That he lives a life of faith which befits the role to be undertaken.
d) That he intends to fulfill his obligation to ensure the child is raised as a Catholic.
e) That he has not skipped mass for 2 years or more.
f) That he is not using contraception.
g) That he has not been involved in an abortion.
h) That he is not a "public sinner".
i) That he is not a member of the freemasons or any other banned society.
j) That he is not a 'heretic' (defined as being in denial or 'obstinate doubt' of any cardinal Catholic doctrine.
k) That he is not a member of a 'schism' (ie a Presbyterian or some other nonCatholic church).
l) That if he is part of a mixed marriage he is raising his own children as Catholics.
m) That he does not believe that all religions are equal or that other religions are equal to the Catholic Church.
n) That he is not in an 'invalid' marriage (ie if your own marriage was in a Registry Office, Protestant Church, or any other nonCatholic venue).
o) That he is registered as a member of a parish or is part of a specific faith community.

Now, you might dismiss all the above as a load of junk, as I do (I'm not a Catholic). But those are the minimum requirements for a godparent according to Catholic Canon law. I think it would be rank hypocrisy for me, or your husband, to pretend to be what we're not.

However, he is happy to make such a pretence then I would recommend a copy of Machiavelli's 'The Prince' as a suitable christening present.

Tim Robbins

PDN wrote: »

He should simply say, "I respect your right to practice your religion, and I will attend the Christening as a mark of our friendship. But please don't ask me to be a hypocrite and a liar by making a bunch of promises that I have no intention of keeping."

I don't think that's very fair.

There's a big difference between lieing to benefit oneself at the expense of others and lieing to benefit others at the expense of yourself.

I admire people who can take a hit for the team, isn't that what's life about?

MementoMori

Hey there OP - you could do what I do and give the baby an athetist baptism

My sister and her husband would know that I am quite strongly atheist and my sister's response when I raised this was that it didn't matter a bit, so if she has no problem with it, I'm not going to give two figs what the Catholic Church/parish priest thinks of it and plan to lie away if needed.

The way I justify it to myself morally is that I don't think that my nephew should possibly be disadvantaged down the line by not being able to go to what his parent's think is the best school for him rather than going through an utterly meaningless ceremony. This may make me a hypocrite to some but I'm sure that any Catholics will forgive me.

As to actual gifts, I won't be getting any specific christening gift. It seems pointless to get him a memento of a meaningless ceremony and there is nothing he actually needs in the way of clothes/toys/baby equipment etc. However I will be setting up a savings account which I plan to add to regullarly so there will be a nice lump sum for when he turns 18. Personally I think this is a nice idea.

MementoMori wrote: »

Funny that I should see this as I just baptised my nephew yesterday.

However I baptised him as an atheist.:P

The ceremony itself was quite quick and painless - Basically I said "[Baby's name] I baptise you as an atheist" and I rubbed his belly. His mom and dad were in bed sleeping as they'd been up most of the night with feeds and I was looking after him so there was no-one besides the two of us present.

The main reason I did it so that if his grandfather (my sister's father-in-law) ever gets snippy about religion I can bring it up and piss him off. I figured my sister will be cool (forgot to tell her when she got up) with it given I'm going to be his offical Catholic Church godfather when they have the Church baptism in a month or so and I will also be his legal guardian in case anything should happen to the folks. My sister told me the reason they are having him baptised is because his grandfather is a strident hard-line Catholic and to avoid fuss with that and also because it will make getting into the "right" school easier down the line. It just goes to show what a mockery the whole baptism thing is.

However it did prompt the idea that in future I will be baptising all babies I come accross in this manner so that technically they will be baptised as atheists as opposed to Christians. Please feel free to use this ceremony as your own if you are so inclined.

I'm not sure of the rules on cross-posting, but given the relevance perhaps the mods could allow this, given its extreme relevance

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58404125&postcount=10

PDN

BTW, MomentoMori I think your sig line is confusing the average with the median. Pedantic, I know, but there you go.

BJC

PDN wrote: »

a) That he is over 16 years of age.
b) That he is a baptised & confirmed Catholic.
c) That he lives a life of faith which befits the role to be undertaken.
d) That he intends to fulfill his obligation to ensure the child is raised as a Catholic.
e) That he has not skipped mass for 2 years or more.
f) That he is not using contraception.
g) That he has not been involved in an abortion.
h) That he is not a "public sinner".
i) That he is not a member of the freemasons or any other banned society.
j) That he is not a 'heretic' (defined as being in denial or 'obstinate doubt' of any cardinal Catholic doctrine.
k) That he is not a member of a 'schism' (ie a Presbyterian or some other nonCatholic church).
l) That if he is part of a mixed marriage he is raising his own children as Catholics.
m) That he does not believe that all religions are equal or that other religions are equal to the Catholic Church.
n) That he is not in an 'invalid' marriage (ie if your own marriage was in a Registry Office, Protestant Church, or any other nonCatholic venue).
o) That he is registered as a member of a parish or is part of a specific faith community.

It would be foolish to think that any godparent in the last 100 years has adhered to all of these prejudiced rules. Most people use baptism as a ceremony to satisfy their own wishes, as in bringing the family together to celebrate the child and bringing two people in as 'godparents' which, to be honest means birthday & Christmas presents every year.

There is no shame in Atheists taking the role as godparents provided the parents know were you stand. As far as I'm concerned any chance to give two fingers to the Church should be taken post haste!

Goduznt Xzst

BJC wrote: »

There is no shame in Atheists taking the role as godparents provided the parents know were you stand. As far as I'm concerned any chance to give two fingers to the Church should be taken post haste!

Yes because that is why all Atheists should accept to look after the children of their dead friends, to "give two fingers to the Church"... seriously, what kind of mind diarrhea makes someone say something like that.

Most Atheists view being asked to be Godparents more as a request to be the trusted guardians for their friends child. The religious connotations are largely irrelevant. But, like I said, this should be clarified in advance, as most people choosing godparents, tend to pick individuals who they feel will raise them as closely as possible to the same standards they would. It would have to be one twisted individual that agrees to be a godparent because he wants to "post haste" jump at the chance to "give two fingers to the church"

sink

PDN wrote: »

BTW, MomentoMori I think your sig line is confusing the average with the median. Pedantic, I know, but there you go.

Actually as a large enough IQ sample follows normal distribution and the median is the peak of the distribution curve it is accurate to say half of all people are below average intelligence. Two can play the pedants game. :P

axer

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

Yes because that is why all Atheists should accept to look after the children of their dead friends, to "give two fingers to the Church"... seriously, what kind of mind diarrhea makes someone say something like that.

It doesn't matter if someone is a god parent as to actually foster your god children it would have to be mentioned in the will of the dead parents which is a different situation.

The way I see it is if you don't believe in god then why be a god parent? If you are going to play "pretend" then just buy the same presents as other god parents buy (whatever they are).

Húrin

Is the required gift for the baby or for the parents?

Ciaran500 wrote: »

Do they sell these cards in just any shop?

make yer own! Why don't people ever make even simple things these days? So much more sincere.

Gordon

Pee & Poo.

robindch

rockbeer wrote: »

Not necessarily I don't think. But they should certainly find out exactly what it is they're signing up to.

As one should before making any solemn declaration.

Anyhow, PDN's more or less on target with his list of requirements and ensuring indoctrination is one of them. Though I've yet to see any godparents actually try to override the parents' wishes. Seems to be a sign of respect more than anything else these days.

As an aside, my own godfather was one of Kerry's most prominent gays back in the 1970's, though I rather suspect my parents didn't know that when they chose him. He gave me one gift just after my christening on the understanding he'd never have to give me another - it's now the most valuable thing I own -- let's hear it for godparents