[Article] Dempsey says Interconnector will proceed in 2009

Amtmann

MINISTER FOR Transport Noel Dempsey has said that the underground interconnector between Dublin's docklands and Heuston Station is to proceed as planned in 2009 notwithstanding the deterioration in the public finances.

The Minister described the rail tunnel, which will accommodate an underground Dart line, as the "most critical piece of infrastructure" for public transport in the State.

"We will not get people to use or depend on public transport unless it's totally integrated," he said, adding he was confident the project would finish on schedule and that the first passengers would use the service in 2015.

Mr Dempsey said Iarnród Éireann would apply for a Railway Order, the equivalent of planning permission, during 2009 and it was also likely to begin the procurement and tendering process by the end of next year.

"That process is likely to spill over into 2010. The stage after that is negotiations with the preferred bidder which could take six to eight months.

"All things being equal this time, in two years, we will know the identity of the contractor," Mr Dempsey said.

The underground line will run from Heuston Station to the docklands with stops at Pearse Street, St Stephen's Green and the general vicinity of Christ Church.

The rationale behind the interconnector is to provide a series of hubs that will link all forms of rail travel in Dublin, including the Luas, mainline rail, the Dart, the new underground Dart as well as the proposed Metro North.

Once the service is operational, passengers will be able to switch from one form of transport to another at different levels of the same station, including the major underground station which is earmarked for St Stephen's Green.

The tunnel will also facilitate more rail movements between the north and south of the river Liffey. At present, a single bridge accommodates all mainline and commuter train traffic, as well as Dart services.

"It is integrating all forms of transport. That is why integrated ticketing is also very important. That also needs to be in place if it is to run smoothly," he said.

Mr Dempsey said that planning for the tunnel would continue even in the event of a serious deterioration in public finances.

"Too often in the past what we neglected to do in a downturn was plan for the future," he said.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1230/1230581467210.html

Forgive my impatience, but can they not hurry up?

Excuse my stupidity (and I'd say it's probably been covered already) but why can't they just use the Phoenix Park tunnel to connect the two lines?

Ckal

Karsini wrote: »

Excuse my stupidity (and I'd say it's probably been covered already) but why can't they just use the Phoenix Park tunnel to connect the two lines?

Apparently it can't support DARTs or something. But it has been proven otherwise that it can because trains go through there for GAA matches.

I don't know the exact details, but that's more or less what I read.

BluntGuy

Hopefully this will get priority over Metro North...

I think this single piece of infrastructure could do more for Dublin's rail network than any other piece has ever or will ever do.

Still, I won't be happy until IE HAVE applied for planning permission, until bidding HAS begun, until a contractor HAS been found and construction HAS begun. Promises are different to action. That's what I'm waiting to see...

Victor

I hear what you are saying, but "Do a deal in haste and repent at your leisure" comes to mind. Metro North has 300 drawings and about 3,000 pages in the apllication, the Interconnector could be nearly as complicated because it passes under so many city centre sites.

BluntGuy

Karsini wrote: »

Excuse my stupidity (and I'd say it's probably been covered already) but why can't they just use the Phoenix Park tunnel to connect the two lines?

Single-track, smaller capacity, not really up to the job and doesn't link the relevant services together.

BluntGuy

Victor wrote: »

I hear what you are saying, but "Do a deal in haste and repent at your leisure" comes to mind. Metro North has 300 drawings and about 3,000 pages in the apllication, the Interconnector could be nearly as complicated because it passes under so many city centre sites.

That's certainly true.

But with the current crumbling infrastructure in Dublin, you really do wish for these things to be done quicker. And let's all remember, that interconnector will benefit everybody in the country... if it gets Dublin moving, that stimulates more trade, which is of benefit to the overall economy.

murphaph

The PPT is not single track. It is potentially very useful (with a little imagination from IE, so unlikely) but it does not do what the Interconnector could do.

godtabh

Furet wrote: »

Forgive my impatience, but can they not hurry up?

Explain in practical terms how it could be done faster?

Victor wrote: »

I hear what you are saying, but "Do a deal in haste and repent at your leisure" comes to mind. Metro North has 300 drawings and about 3,000 pages in the apllication, the Interconnector could be nearly as complicated because it passes under so many city centre sites.

When you are talking about the 300 drawings I assume the you mean RPA drawings? Tender drawings are at least double that

BluntGuy

murphaph wrote: »

The PPT is not single track. It is potentially very useful (with a little imagination from IE, so unlikely) but it does not do what the Interconnector could do.

I didn't know that, I always thought PPT was single-track which is why it couldn't be used... :cool:

I just looked up this page though, seems I was completely mistaken and it could actually be used for something useful:

http://www.railusers.ie/campaigns/phoenix_tunnel/

Victor

BluntGuy wrote: »

I didn't know that, I always thought PPT was single-track which is why it couldn't be used... :cool:

I just looked up this page though, seems I was completely mistaken and it could actually be used for something useful:

http://www.railusers.ie/campaigns/phoenix_tunnel/

PPT is single bore as opposed to MN and Interconnector being twin bore.

dowlingm

Oy. When Dempsey The Liar says something's definitely going to happen, I think it's time to prepare it for burial...

Amtmann

kearnsr wrote: »

Explain in practical terms how it could be done faster?

I can't. I have no idea why these things take so long. That's why I asked the question, "can they not hurry up?"

strassenwolf

But why is he coming out with this statement now (actually December 29th), when most of the country are still working their way through the turkey and ham, and paying no attention to the newspapers?

Wouldn't it have been better to have made this expression of confidence before Christmas, when people were still in the outside world and following the news.

Or even after New Year, when people are starting to get back into the swing.

Why pick probably the slowest news time of the year?

Bluetonic

How do you know how old the quotes are?

Maybe the IT instigated the questions to fill some of the paper?

Were they part of a larger end of year interview done some time ago?

Until you know the facts better not to judge.

SeanW

Karsini wrote: »

Excuse my stupidity (and I'd say it's probably been covered already) but why can't they just use the Phoenix Park tunnel to connect the two lines?

The Phoinex Park Tunnel route diverges from the Heuston mainline just before the platforms, with one track running past Heuston Platform 10. It proceeds over the Liffey, into a (sub-surface) tunnel through the Phoinex Park, emerges North of the Park, and joins the Drumcondra line just AFTER the Midland Line diverges for the Docklands at Glasnevin Junction.

The line is twin track all the way with a full set of double track junctions at Glasnevin Junction, at Heuston the PPT line junction is part of the station 'throat.'

The problem is where the trains go once they get past G.J. The lines into Connolly operate at maximum capacity in peak hours, though the City Centre Resignalling project and the Interconnector will take care of that, and, in their infinite wisdom, CIE built the Docklands station so that it can only take trains from the Midland line, which bypasses Drumcondra and diverges from the Maynooth mainline BEFORE the PPT line joins, this despite a head honcho from Irish Rail in 2004 having given an undertaking to a Joint Oireactas Committe On Transport that they would run trains from Kildare to their new station in the docks because "there is demand for that." Honestly, those bozos make a textbook example of how not to build a railway.

It's true that the PPT has been used for GAA specials, and could be used, in the off peak for service to Connolly, and Mark G of Rail Users Ireland believes that with a small purchase of industrial lands, a connecting track from Drumcondra line to the Docklands station could be built to allow PPT-Docklands services, but I don't hold out much hope.

Chris_533976

When an Irish politician promises a public transport project will begin year X, it will actually begin on year X+2.

That said, at least he admits that its the most critical piece of public transport infrastructure in the country and he actually uses the word 'integration'.

covert

Bluetonic wrote: »

Until you know the facts better not to judge.

WHAT???!!!??? But then boards.ie as we know it will cease to be!!

Bluetonic

covert wrote: »

WHAT???!!!??? But then boards.ie as we know it will cease to be!!

SeanW

SeanW wrote: »

The problem is where the trains go once they get past G.J. The lines into Connolly operate at maximum capacity in peak hours, though the City Centre Resignalling project and the Interconnector will take care of that, and, in their infinite wisdom, CIE built the Docklands station so that it can only take trains from the Midland line, which bypasses Drumcondra and diverges from the Maynooth mainline BEFORE the PPT line joins, this despite a head honcho from Irish Rail in 2004 having given an undertaking to a Joint Oireactas Committe On Transport that they would run trains from Kildare to their new station in the docks because "there is demand for that." Honestly, those bozos make a textbook example of how not to build a railway.

Ah yes now I get it. I never thought of the layout at Glasnevin Junction but you're dead right, you could only go directly to Connolly or Pearse from there.

dowlingm

Am I incorrect in thinking that Glasnevin Junction was altered a few (maybe 10) years back which may have removed a PPT facilitating connection to the Midland?

GerardKeating

dowlingm wrote: »

Am I incorrect in thinking that Glasnevin Junction was altered a few (maybe 10) years back which may have removed a PPT facilitating connection to the Midland?

I think longer back, but yes, the PPT could have a junction to take in into Spensor Dock, but it would have to cross the Maynooth line, not sure if the junction would take the level of traffic.

Bluetonic

Oh dear. Seems like boards is guilty of facilitating deja vu.

I wish the search was working :rolleyes:

Victor

dowlingm wrote: »

Am I incorrect in thinking that Glasnevin Junction was altered a few (maybe 10) years back which may have removed a PPT facilitating connection to the Midland?

No, I think it was changed in something like 1921.

A modest improvement was made in the 1990s.