ID

Gavin "shels"

So well this happened a while ago to myself; went into an "offo" in Ballsbridge, the chap between the counter asked me for id ( I had just turned 18 two weeks previous) so take out my passport which was only 3 months old and he said they only accept Garda ID's. I was like WTF, it's a Government issued piece of identification which a recent picture of myself and my age. If it was a student id, etc... I would have been like ok I understand, but a fricking passport.:eek:


So is there an actualy rule that means that places have to accept Government ID or what not or is it up to the shops?

ronnie3585

It's up to the individual shop, like.

Victor

He was either ignorant of bluffing you. Ask to speak to a manager next time and tell him that its inappropriate to decline custom like that, indeed its illegal discrimination based on age and that you wouldn't want him to get in trouble in the licencing courts.

Oh, and get an age card.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/justice/criminal-law/criminal-offences/alcohol_and_the_law

Appropriate identification includes a National Age Card, a passport, a driving licence, or a identitiy card issued by an EU member state.

www.citizensinformationboard.ie/publications/relate/April_2008_Relate.doc

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2003/en/act/pub/0031/sec0015.html

15.—The Act of 1988 is amended by inserting the following section after section 34:

“Production of evidence of age by persons between 18 and 21 years.

34A.—(1) The holder of a licence of any licensed premises shall not allow a person who is aged at least 18 years but under the age of 21 years to be in the bar of those premises between 9.00 p.m. and 10.30 a.m. on the following day (12.30 p.m. if the following day is a Sunday) if the person does not produce an age document to the holder.

(2) For the purposes of subsection (1) of this section ‘age document’ means a document containing a photograph of the person in respect of whom it was issued and information that enables the age of the person to be determined and being one of the following documents relating to a person referred to in that subsection:
(a) an age card referred to in section 40 of this Act,
(b) a passport,
(c) an identity card issued by a member state of the European Communities,
(d) a driver licence, or
(e) a document issued by a body, and in a form, prescribed by regulations made by the Minister.

(3) A person referred to in subsection (1) of this section shall not be in the bar of licensed premises between the times referred to in that subsection while not having with him or her an age document.

(4) A person who contravenes subsection (1) of this section is guilty of an offence under this section and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding—
(a) for a first offence, €1,500, or
(b) for a second or any subsequent offence, €2,000.

(5) A person who contravenes subsection (3) of this section is guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding €300.”.

Gavin "shels"

I knew I was right.:D I applyed for my Age Card the day I turned 18, but well had to wait 8 weeks for it too arrive,:eek: have it now though.:cool:

Jev/N

They can still refuse to serve if they believe the document of identification to be suspect i.e. that it is either a forgery or belonging to someone other than the person purchasing the alcohol so he wasn't totally in the wrong...age cards are trusted the most because they are relatively hard to forge

Gavin "shels"

Jev/N wrote: »

They can still refuse to serve if they believe the document of identification to be suspect i.e. that it is either a forgery or belonging to someone other than the person purchasing the alcohol so he wasn't totally in the wrong...age cards are trusted the most because they are relatively hard to forge

Ye I'm aware of that.


Anyone know who I'd report this matter to?

Jev/N

Gavin shels wrote: »

Anyone know who I'd report this matter to?

You're being bit naive here, you didn't have an absolute right to alcohol so there's no point complaining, just get on with it.

TBH i haven't a clue who you'd report to because I don't think there's anything to report :rolleyes:

Creamy Goodness

don't worry dude, i'm 22 and get refused with the following sometimes

garda id.
passport.
full driving license.
work id with photo and DOB.
college id with photo and DOB.
credit card used to try to pay for alcohol.
car keys.

i might add i was heading home from the airport after a work trip (hence why i had passport and driving license etc.) and was heading to a party. was gobsmacked and so was the queue behind me saw me sprawling every id under the sun onto the counter.

now i know having car keys and a credit card aren't valid forms of id, but a little bit of common sense them paired with three valid forms of id along with a work and college id should have been sufficient.

i didn't report it, just walked with my feet and went to a premises who employ managers with a brain and can read.

Our man in Havana

An objection to his licence renewal always focusses the mind in these situations.

ronnie3585

Jev/N wrote: »

You're being bit naive here, you didn't have an absolute right to alcohol so there's no point complaining, just get on with it.

Exactly, can't see what your problem is. The owners of the off licence reserve the right to refuse admission and/or service. Get over it! (or grow a beard:pac:).

Victor

ronnie3585 wrote: »

The owners of the off licence reserve the right to refuse admission and/or service.

Sure, but in deciding who they let buy or not, they can't take age (assuming over 18) into account.

Our man in Havana

Victor wrote: »

Sure, but in deciding who they let buy or not, they can't take age (assuming over 18) into account.

Indeed Victor. Licensing courts will take a dim view of that sort of thing.

seamus

The legislation quoted by Victor above, does not require a premises to accept state-issued ID. It does however require that anyone between 18 and 21 who is on a licensed premises, must be carrying a state-issued ID and the pub are obliged to check this.

It's a thorny one. Assuming that they apply the rule consistently (i.e. refuse *all* passports presented), then the discrimination issue doesn't come into it - the off-licence isn't refusing service on the basis of age, it's refusing service because the patron is unable to establish proof of age to the satisfaction of the owner.
It would require something of a well thought out legal challenge to get the pub into trouble or to get them to change their policy. They are not doing anything specifically illegal by having a policy of refusing passports.

I imagine a challenge to their licence renewal would require a reason and at least some proof of that reason.

It could be challenged on the basis of asking them why they are asking for ID in the first place. If they are asking for ID in order to satisfy the Act quoted above by Victor, then they would need to justify why they have taken upon themselves to "amend" the meaning of "age document" for their own purposes. If they are not asking to satisfy the Act, but purely to attempt to establish the age of the patron, then they would technically be required to ask all patrons (of whatever age) for ID, otherwise they could be deemed to be discriminating based on age.

KevR

Was in Tesco a couple of weeks ago and tried to buy a few cans of beer. I usually bring my passport when I'm going out or buying drink from an off-licence but on this occasion I forgot my passport but I had my full driving licence and my college ID with me. Went to the till with the shortest queue and the woman asked me for ID. I gave my driving licence to her and after a minute of thinking about it she said she can only take a drivers licence for people over 21 (I'm 20 BTW and don't get asked for ID the majority of the time). I showed my college ID (has my name, DOB and my picture) aswell to back up the drivers licence but she still said no. She was basically saying she wouldn't take my licence as ID because I'm 20 but in 3 months time when I turn 21 she would take it no problems. I can't understand the sense in that at all.

Anyway I just went to another till (albeit with a longer queue) where a friend of a friend was on the cash register and I was able to buy the beer no problems.

Won't go to Tesco anymore if that's the way they are about checking the age of someone buying drink - will go to Dunnes in future.

evercloserunion

Gavin shels wrote: »

Ye I'm aware of that.


Anyone know who I'd report this matter to?

You don't report it. Nothing is wrong here. Most shops reserve the right to refuse custom for whatever reason AFAIK. Shops don't have to accept a passport, but most do. He might have believed you were using a fake passport or someone else's, or maybe that you were too drunk or looked like a scumbag or whatever (not saying you did!) and saying they didn't accept passports was just easier than getting into a row about whether you're underage, drunk etc.