UPC Question - Broadband installation

Nehaxak

Hi

I did search the forums for anything related to what I'm asking and couldn't find anything so...

I'm moving into a new house this week and unfortunately have to give up my Irish Broadband (can't get a signal with the wireless breeze at the new location). As the new development of houses was already serviced by both Eircon and UPC, I decided on UPC for my broadband.

I've gone for the 20Mb service and the engineers are due to arrive this week to install.

Thing is though is that I want the Internet access point to be in one of the bedrooms upstairs and I want the router (getting some free wireless router with the package) installed there also.

Do UPC just install the router downstairs with/alongside the Digital TV box and leave it up to you to move it and run cables etc., or will they install it upstairs, or wherever you want ?

The other thing is they told me I'll need to have a computer there for the installation date - Do I *really* need to have a computer there for them to install the broadband ? I'm nowhere near ready to move to the new house yet, flooring only being installed on Wednesday, nothing has been moved to the new place yet, let alone my computer.

The girl on the phone also told me that I'll need to have my anti virus software "disabled" for the engineers to install my broadband ? Is that normal practice ?

Can they not just install the router, leave me the settings and just leave the rest for me to do myself ?

Sad to leave IBB though, with them 5 years and only maybe 2 or 3 outages lasting a few hours at most, all due to bad weather effecting the high site in Ballymun. Otherwise been spot on perfect for me throughout those 5 years.

Just hope UPC fair just as good

watty

There is no SW to install if you use ethernet. Only USB modems need SW.

There is never any need ever to install SW to access ethernet/WiFi routers.

The modem needs coax to it from the main trunk. Some more recent developments have outlets in more than one room. They will connect it wherever there is an outlet. You can use up to a 100m of CAT5 to connect the Modem to the Router (if separate). If not separate then you may have to run RG6, RG59 or CT100/PF100 coax from the working outlet to where you want the modem. Cat5 is cheaper and easier to run if you have a crimp tool.

My daughter moved house and couldn't any longer get a Metro Signal so got UPC without TV.

Nehaxak

Thanks Watty.
There seems to be the cable point(s) already installed in the sitting room and a blanking plate (for I presume another point) upstairs in one of the bedrooms, though not the room I want it in.

Ah sure I'll have a chat with the engineers when they arrive and see what I can sort out. Was a bit more worried about needing a computer there for them to carry out the installation, from what you've said it sounds like I don't need one there though so should be ok.

Pete67

I remember the technician had to ring UPC to get them to enable the modem on their network when he had everything connected. It takes a few minutes, and they like to test it's working before leaving - I guess it avoids call backs. Thats why they want a computer at the site. They also save a text file on yourdesktop with configuration data and passwords etc in case you need it again. Can you bring a laptop?

They will usually run cable to the room you want the modem in, but it will be run externally, and the wall drilled at the point where the cable is terminated.

guil

they never done anythin with my comp when i got it in and def did not save a text file on it either

lambchops

They didn't do anything with my computers when installing the internet! They installed everything including the wireless dongle onto my 2 pc's and my laptop. On my main PC they saved the logon info for the router! After that i was ready to go!

gar

When they came to my house they have laptop themselves, think it was to program the box for the tv. so they could test the bb themselves.

Installed no issues.

Gar

BostonB

watty wrote: »

...The modem needs coax to it from the main trunk. Some more recent developments have outlets in more than one room. They will connect it wherever there is an outlet. You can use up to a 100m of CAT5 to connect the Modem to the Router (if separate). If not separate then you may have to run RG6, RG59 or CT100/PF100 coax from the working outlet to where you want the modem. Cat5 is cheaper and easier to run if you have a crimp tool....

Could you elaborate on that? I have NTL BB in an upstairs room. I wanted to move it to one of the outlets downstairs, but the modem doesn't work on those. Why is that? Does it matter what way the signal is split or is there something different in the outlet on the wall? As the one for the BB is a slightly bigger box?

watty

Some old splitters, especially ones for Radio &TV may not be suitable. Broadband uses 15Mhz to 42MHzor 5MHz to 65MHz for the return channel to the Internet. 110MHz to 862MHz or 270MHz to 560MHz (the normal TV channels) is used for data from the internet to the Modem.

Typically there is 2 places splitters are used, one is to feed the outlets, and 2nd is FM/VHF Radio & TV outlets on the actual wall box. Both splitters need to be broadband compatible.

BostonB

Ok thanks for that. I was looking at them, wondering what the difference was between them. I'll have to go look at them again. On the outlet for the broadband only certain cables work, the better quality ones.

DingDong

BostonB wrote: »

Could you elaborate on that? I have NTL BB in an upstairs room. I wanted to move it to one of the outlets downstairs, but the modem doesn't work on those. Why is that? Does it matter what way the signal is split or is there something different in the outlet on the wall? As the one for the BB is a slightly bigger box?

If its not a signal problem, its possible the tap port that's feeding your outlet box had a reverse path filter on it. Is the cable system overhead or underground in your area. If it underground it would be more likely down to some sort of fault with the signal level.

Nehaxak

Well the engineer/installer came today, the missus went over to let him in (We're in the middle of moving house). I got over 5 minutes later and he was getting ready to leave !

He just installed everything in the sitting room, all left hanging from the wall but I tidied it all up later. He installed and tested everything with his itouch and I used my own iphone to test wireless access myself. I asked him for settings and he just gave me the wireless wpa password.
Asked him for login details, ip, DNS, email address etc and he just said wireless password again then wrote it down. I asked him to make sure it was the 20mb broadband service he installed and once again he told me the wireless password !
He barely spoke and could only manage one or two English words anyway

From speedtests I've done from this iphone on the wireless, max d/l speed I've been getting is no more than 4mb, no way near the 20mb I'm supposed to be getting.

I predict a lot of calls to UPC over the coming week

Ps iPhone's are really annoying to type with

guil

its the netgear router, on my pc less than 10 feet away in the same room i could only get 5 mb max usin wireless, i can get over 19 with wired thoug

watty

I doubt many phones or any can do 20Mbps.

Also in 802.11b WiFi mode you'd be lucky to get 4Mbps.

Test it with wired ethernet.

BostonB

DingDong wrote: »

If its not a signal problem, its possible the tap port that's feeding your outlet box had a reverse path filter on it. Is the cable system overhead or underground in your area. If it underground it would be more likely down to some sort of fault with the signal level.

Underground and there were problems with it in the past, water was getting in the boxes. But a new box was fitted (underground) and the resistance changed, and its been ok connection wise since.

Whats a tap port and reverse path filter? How would effect which port I'm using? Theres a 5-900MHz splitter DSU-2 and a 110dB EMI isolation tap on the line 5-1000Mhz. So I assume I have to be careful which line is being flitered for the BB.

watty

If you split the signal exactly, both paths have 1/2, i.e. 3dB loss. If you take off (tap) only -11dB, then the main signal (trunk to next house) is hardly affected. A trunk/subscriber splitter has an in and out for trunk and loses maybe 1dB on trunk. It might have 4 "taps", really one tap feeds a two way equal splitter, which feeds two equal splitters.


The return signal of broadband is on 2 to 65MHz or 15MHz to 42MHz depending on system. If the cable trunk amplifiers are for old analogue TV, that band is not going to work.
A "reverse path" filter will only allow or block 5MHz to 65MHz depending on what the application is. TV and Radio are unaffected. Modems won't work. I don't know why they would explicitly fit one. An old pre broadband Trunk amplifier that allowed some BandI VHF analogue channels will act as a "reverse path filter".

A modern trunk amplifier has two splitting filters built in, one on "downstream" side and one on "up stream" side. Each has a "forward path" (87 .. 864MHz) and a "reverse path" (5MHz to 68MHz). The signals are then separte for the forward (downstream Radio/TV/Modem download) and reverse (Upstream Modem data only) to allow the two sets of signals to be amplified. Without the filters it would "howl around" like a Microphone near a loudspeaker.

DingDong

A reverse path filter is used to stop any noise coming from the customers house back on to the network(dodgy internal amp etc). They aren't used on the current rebuild. You would be surprised how much noise can be generated by a customer, its been know to knock a whole node off. If you didn't have BB or the tv point wasn't used for BB it was seen as an unnecessary risk to the network so the taps had a filter fitted to each port which blocked any signal below 65Mhz or 45Mhz depending it band I are in use.
The filter shouldn't be a problem for you Boston as an underground network only uses one port into your home and then split in the etu(usually a white box at the side of your home).

A tap port is basically the connection from the network into your home.The image below shows an 8 port tap.

Nehaxak

Set up a little EEEbox pc and ran the speedtest over the ethernet connection, getting 15 to 16Mb on the d/l so all is grand



I'll take out the netgear router later in the week and put my Draytek in instead as I have it's firewall and ports etc., all setup plus the blueface is all setup on that also.

Looking good though, nice speeds from UPC.

The tax man

DingDong wrote: »

A tap port is basically the connection from the network into your home.The image below shows an 8 port tap.

Christ DingDong,could you not find a picture of a tap that hasn't been butchered. :D

DingDong

The tax man wrote: »

Christ DingDong,could you not find a picture of a tap that hasn't been butchered. :D

LOL I know its bad but it all I could find from a quick google search
Here a tap in better shape

rok

watty wrote: »

The modem needs coax to it from the main trunk. Some more recent developments have outlets in more than one room. They will connect it wherever there is an outlet. You can use up to a 100m of CAT5 to connect the Modem to the Router (if separate). If not separate then you may have to run RG6, RG59 or CT100/PF100 coax from the working outlet to where you want the modem. Cat5 is cheaper and easier to run if you have a crimp tool.

Ok I've booked UPC Broadband, + just wondering now about the install of the modem/router.

The UPC 8 port tap is on the front corner wall of the house, just underneath the Facia/Soffit.
There is some old coax cable already in my attic from the previous tenants but I dont use this at all as I have a seperate SKY aerial + coax so I dont even know if this old cable works.

I was thinking of putting the Modem + wireless router in 1 of the upstairs bedrooms.
- Will the UPC installer run some coax cable from the Tap outside the house, (drill hole into attic) then run about 4 metres of cable through attic +
and drop down into the upstairs bedroom?
- How big is the UPC modem? (just wondering if I can hide it away behind desk)
- Is there a recommended limit to the length of coax cable to use from the main trunk/tap to the UPC modem? (will the 4/5 metres be ok?)

BostonB

The router and modem I have run hot and I had problems with them when I stacked them on top of one another. So I have them side by side under a unit on the floor now. I was thinking of moving them into the attic myself, on a shelf up there away from everything.

rok

cheers BostonB, I was thinking of leaving the modem in the attic but would be worried of fire-hazard if it heats up.
Actually dont think there is a power socket up in attic anyway.

BostonB

I have power and a cable run there. I was thinking of putting it on a shelf mounted high away from anything.

Its annoying how much space it all takes up.