[Merge] Ski Instruction Training

nicola_a

Greetings everyone!

Newbie here...

I was wondering if anyone has done any form of Ski Instructors Training before. I would love to do NZSIA CSI & Level 1 it so I could then teach for a season in Canada, but having grown up in Australia I have not been skiing all my life.

I have been on a couple of skiing trips (where I fell in love with it) and would consider myself an intermediate skiier, but a fast learner, and without a hell of a lot of style or technique yet.

I am confident in handling blue (intermediate) runs with ease and can handle black/red groomed runs after a couple of days back on the slopes - in control, just not with a hell of a lot of grace.

I'm mostly concerned that I'm going to hand over $12,000 AUD with a slim to none chance of passing my NZSIA Level 1. (I assume if you fail, you fail, no chance of a retest without paying again?)

Anyone out there with any advice or recommendation?

The plan at the moment is to do an 8 week course in New Zealand.

Thanks in advance

Nicola

paddyb

on the course, they will probably break down your technique and you will re-learn how to ski (it will be the same for everyone on the course)
The exams are only about $300 or so. Your paying the rest for all of the instruction that you are getting.

I dont know about skiing but for snowboarding alot of courses have a 100% pass rate for level 1

robinph

I have been attempting the IASI level 1 course here at the Killternan dry slope over the last year. You need to be able to parallel turn down red'ish slopes really before attempting one of the courses to have a fair stab at it though. But they will re-teach you everything from the beginning again and you'll not believe how badly your were actually skiing before once you've been through the course. I've not actually got as far as taking the test yet myself though due to other things going on. As they re-teach your everything from the start again though you can probably get away with a bit less technique to start off with as long as your generally fit enough and ready to learn.

However, due to me potentially loosing my job within the next couple of weeks I have now been seriously considering taking some time out before getting another job and going for one of the instructor courses in New Zealand in 2009 as well. One of the places that I have been looking at so far runs a 10-week course that takes you up to NZSIA level 1, with the potential for doing a further 4 weeks on the end to get the level 2 qualification as well if they think that you are able for it. Non-Stop Ski is where I've seen that course and they are charging £7000 to get on the level 2 course, and with the current €-£ rates that actually seems like a pretty good deal at the moment.

If you have the intention of actually doing instructing in the mountains anywhere then the various sites I've seen seem to say that you really need a level 2 equivalent course.

What places have you seen running the courses in NZ?

jimdev

I got my NZ CSI instructor cert with the ski instructor training company in Queenstown. They say about this on their website:

What level of skier do I need to be?
For the 11 week and the 8 week programs we ask that you can ski a red/black run in control, with confidence.
You don't need to be able to do this with any super style, just as long as you can deal with the terrain.

paulharte

I come from a snowboarding background, but I found with instructor courses, its better if you DON'T have a lot of experience, as they generally break down your turns and build them back up again. Its easier to change your style if its caught early


I say, go for it!

nicola_a

Thanks guys for some really helpful replies.

robinph -
I reckon you are correct about Non Stop Ski...
Here is a website that lists a lot of companies that offer training in NZ: http://www.snow.co.nz/education/training/listings.asp?GroupKey=389 .

I have looked and compared all of them and Non Stop is the most expensive by a couple thousand $AUD but you also get a more private room and almost all meals provided, which I think is a bonus. I think you'd probably end up spending the same in the end with the other companies who offer the course for cheaper but don't offer all meals etc?
Have a look, tell me what you think also.

Here is another site (more international) with a list of training companies: http://www.natives.co.uk/instructor/index.htm . The other company that looked like it had potential was Peak Leaders.

I was interested in what you said about the NZSIA Level 2 being required. To be honest I had only looked at what the levels permit you to teach, as opposed to seeing what the resorts actually want from you. I'll look into this closer. Would love to chat to you more about it all!

paddyb, jimdev & paulharte -
Great to hear! From the sounds of things I think i'll be fine. In fact am very excited about having my technique (or lack of) broken down and rebuilt.

robinph

Thanks for those links, I'd not come across those sites yet on my Googling.

I did see a couple of mentions of Non-Stop on the Snowheads forums and they seemed to all be saying good things about their courses in Canada. After a bit more searching it looks as if their course in New Zealand is based a bit off the beaten track though. But from some brief comparisons between their course write up and the ones that I saw on a couple of other sites now they seem to be fitting a lot more into the time. Some of the sites seem to be running for 10-12 weeks but maybe with only 3 or 4 days teaching a week. I cannot find a specific mention of it on the Non-Stop page but it seems as if they might be doing 5 days a week which would explain how they can fit in that much more. Non-Stop seem to be the only place I've come across so far that is offering a course up to the NZSIA level 2 in the same amount of time though.

As far as the qualification levels are concerned I think I confused myself slightly with what I was saying as I had missed the NZSIA CSI level and I was thinking about the levels of the IASI/ BASI system at the time. It now gets very confusing with the number of very similar acronyms so please excuse any mistakes here.

ISIA = International Snowsports Instructors Association
IASI = Irish Association of Snowsports Instructors
BASI = British Association of Snowsports Instructors
NZSIA = New Zealand Snowsports Instructors Association
CSIA = Canadian Snowsports Instructors Association

Anyway, this is my current take on it...

The IASI and BASI systems are very similar with the levels going upwards from 1 - 4 in terms of skill that you'd be teaching, things may get more confused here if looking at older websites as the BASI system reversed their numbering a while ago when they had 4 being the lowest level I think.

Level 1 IASI/ BASI and you can teach on artificial slopes, plastic/ dendex or snowdome.
Level 2 IASI/ BASI or above is needed to be able to teach on real snow.

The CSIA and NZSIA systems seem to be very closely related as well and as best I can tell the NZSIA CSI level would be most equivalent to the IASI/ BASI level 1 and the CSIA/ NZSIA level 1 would be approximately equivalent to IASI/ BASI level 2.

robinph

Looks like I still got the levels wrong as I just spotted this on another page:

International Academy wrote:

You can attain the NZSIA Level 1 (formerly known as the Certicate in Snowports Instruction) and Level 2 (formerly known as the Stage One) instructor qualifications.

I give up in trying to figure out what's what now then. :mad:

Polarbear2020

Hey nicola_a,
I agree with paulharte and say go for it! Im heading out to Canada in 2weeks time to do an Instructor course myself, and I did a good bit of research into all the courses/companies etc aswell. I am doing it through a company called Canadian Rockies Academy, I don't think it is featured on natives or any of those sites, (it was actually an Irish ski instructor who first told me about it). The price is £5950(has since changed to £6550) including breakfast and dinner 7 days, 5days training each week, and you stay in a hotel, not hostels or group houses. Its 11weeks, and I will be doing CSIA Level 1+2.
It wasn't the price that got me though, have a read of the site. http://www.canadianrockiesacademy.com/
They just seem like a fantastic academy, and the course is run in conjunction with the mountain itself. In their own words "The programme is fully intergrated within the resort's structure and is a real working partnership with the Marmot Basin Resort".
They explain their ability to have such low prices on here (basically down to economies of scale).
http://www.canadianrockiesacademy.com/m25.htm
Plus they have a 100%pass rate to date!:)

Anyway there is another option for you to take a look at, happy hunting and good luck with it!:):)

Polarbear2020

robinph wrote: »

Looks like I still got the levels wrong as I just spotted this on another page:

I give up in trying to figure out what's what now then. :mad:

Ditto, I gave up on this a long time ago. The most confusing is if you ring all the head departments of each National association, they all just claimed that their qualifications were more superior to others:p
But I think you were fairly accurate with your comparisan below...although we will never really know?
I changed tact and started asking ski schools what qualifications I would need instead.

nicola_a

robinph -
Yes, have totally given up on trying to compare the levels. I think the best bet would be to call up individual academies/resorts and find out what their requirements are...

I WAS under the impression that NZSIA Level 1 is the equivalent to the new CSIA/BASI Level 2 (see here http://winterwonderings.blogspot.com/2007/06/ski-instructor-qualifications.html)... that blog was posted 18 months ago, though.

PolarBear -
Enjoy your training! Keep us updated, i'd love to hear more about how it goes (nic.andrews@gmail.com). Thanks for your info you obviously you did a lot of research. I won't be training until 2011 (got to finish my education first) but as you can tell I enjoy planning and travel more than my current course of study ;-)

Everyone else! -
Has anyone undertaken training in Europe? I had a brief look into it and it seems to be far more hardcore than in Canada or NZ... It is well known that it's harder (you need to be more qualified) to teach in Europe but does anyone have any first hand insight into this?

I'm also considering training in Quebec, with Global Sports Xperience or another company that I might find. The prices seem to be all much the same with the difference only being airfares (i'm in Australia).

robinph

Other than having a language as well the only other difficulty with working in Europe is in France where you have to do a speed test as well. That is something like getting a time within a couple of % of a world cup racer that they send down a course before you. :eek:

Polarbear2020

Italy is another place with the speed test(they call it AVMS test). There is also legislation in place in some regions to restrict the amount of weeks a year foreign instructors can teach(eg its 28days a year in Aosta Valley area if you are BASI qualified).
This was another thing that when I looked into it, I found hard to get an exact answer to, so don't take it as gospel, but Italy seems a little trickier to get an Instructor job than some other places in Europe. Its where I want to work though so lets hope its not impossible!!

@nicola_a
Will keep you updated!:D

robinph

I seem to remember something about Italy being a bit more difficult alright.

I'm curious as to how they can have rules restricting foriegners working in the EU though if they are an EU passport holder. I guess the people who are going for instructor jobs though cannot be bothered enough to bring a case to Brussels about it.

Polarbear2020

Tell me about it!!! It has been a few months since I was trying to find out about it, but I actually ended up giving up on the matter. I emailed embassys, english speaking lawyers in Italy who specialise in Sport Legislation, the whole lot...and even now I'm a bit unsure about it all. It seems different region to region though. For now I'm just going to try get qualified and I'll revisit that headache another time.

Here is quote from interski website:

"What is the AVMS Test and how does it affect me?
The Aosta Valley autonomous region restricts non-Italian nationals from working more than 7 days each winter season. However, for those who sit and pass the AVMS Test, this entitlement is increased to 28 days per winter season for the rest of your life! The test is divided into three elements and each must be passed to attain the entitlement."

robinph

I suspect that would be easily beatable in Brussles due to them specifically mentioning the "non-Italian nationals" part if they aslo apply that rule to EU passport holders. If they just left it that everyone had to to their speed test then they would be OK and that would by default restrict foriegners to a certain extent due to not being able to do the test or an equivalent anywhere else.

Polarbear2020

I'll let some one else fight that battle for me I think:rolleyes:

However my other ray of hope is that Aosta is the only area with such restrictions. Most information I found on the topic always refered specifically to Aosta Valley. The big problem I had was trying to get confirmation that it was restricted only to this region,(hence emailing the embassys etc), which I could not get definatively. But I am sure I could get a job somewhere...somehow.

nicola_a

Polarbear -
Being trained in Canada I highly doubt you will have any issues being employed anywhere in CA or NZ/AU.
Maybe some places in Europe will be more lenient, probably not France/Italy/Germany but maybe even Austria/Switzerland, surprisingly they seem less anal about it?
Where do you ideally want to work in the end, or dont you mind?

robinph

How long ago did you actually book your place on the course in Canada out of interest?

Just wondering how soon I might have to make a decision regarding doing a course this summer before all the places might go on the courses in New Zealand as it's still another couple of weeks before I'll know if I loose my current job or not and so would be able to do the course at all. I expect that the July - September courses would probably fill up a bit quicker anyway though due to it fitting in nicely between academic years.

If I do end up doing a course I hope I'm not the only more mature* person on it.

* Mature in age only.

Polarbear2020

nicola_a
Yeah canada/north america/australia/new zealand are all fine with my qualification. They are generally ok with most qualifications I think. Its only when you get to Europe, some countries get snobby, and your right it seems to be France, Italy and Germany are the worst. Others seem to be ok though, especially Andorra and Switzerland.
Italy would be my first choice as I love the place(have sketchy notion of the language aswell but still learning). Otherwise it would be Canada/North America/New Zealand anyway as I don't ave any other languages,so no worries there.

Robinph
I booked it way back in July time. I didn't book it then to ensure my place however, it was just when I decided to deffer college and go ahead with the course. I actually only finished payment of the course about a month ago. Plus the course I do is larger than most others so there is more spots/less likely to sell out early.
I think most courses take a small enough deposit(mine was £250sterling). If you really want to ensure a place on the course even just pay that for now. Thing is if you change your mind you may not get it back, depends on the companies policy?

robinph

I do now have the free time and funds to go for an instructor course this year as my permanent gardening skiing leave from work was confirmed last week. :D

It's tricky trying to figure out where to go now though. There are loads and loads of options to do the courses in New Zealand at virtually every ski field and there are several offering courses based in Queenstown. One of the companies that I found running a course there, Peak Leaders, is actually based in Scotland and also run courses in Argentina as well, along with a bunch of other places during the northern winter.

The Argentina one looks like it would work out cheaper actually as although the price is higher you get a bit more included, such as the flights from the UK and a language course as well. I suspect that beer is cheaper too.

Need to think on this all a bit more yet I guess, but will probably come down to the flip of a coin.

Edit: The Argentina course is for BASI qualifications and the New Zealand ones are for NZSIA ones, but not too sure if that makes much difference either.

Polarbear2020

I finally arrived in Jasper yesterday:D:D:D:D

The course does not officially start until friday though, and we don't get our ski passes until thursday night:eek: because there are more arriving today and tommorow...so we cant ski until then!! It sucks! Still cannot wait though:D

robinph

Keep us posted in how the course goes, and good luck.

AndRoiD

Hi,

i have been thinking about taking a ski instructor course, preferably to achieve NZIA level 2. Because i am still at university i've been considering doing the course during the summer holidays and NZ would suit me perfect.

The point of the thread was to gather information and opinions from people who have any experience or advice on the matter so any input is appreciated.

robinph

There is a good bit of information from another thread a month or so ago here:
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055449591

I have since gone and put my money down on doing a course with Peak Leaders in Queenstown starting at the beggining of July this year.

CianRyan

Could be a usefull site. http://www.nzski.com/

AndRoiD

cheers for the info guys, i had a look at that post before i created this one. It had a lot of useful info in it.

Ronbinph i actually had already looked at that website but wasnt too sure which course to go for. How did you decide which company to go with?

robinph

Due to the numbers of different offerings for doing the courses it was difficult to actually pick one company over another. I had contacted a couple of companies though and they sent me out their brochures/ dvd's covering all of the courses they each offered. I had narrowed down my choices a bit based on what towns the different ones were based in in New Zealand as well.

Non-Stop was another one that I was looking at and had seen good things about their courses in Canada from the forums on SnowHeads, but the location for their New Zealand course didn't really take my fancy. I did get a brochure of there other courses sent out though and from that I am now going on a two week trip with them in Canada in a couple of weeks.

Peak Leaders also do a course in Argentina which I was contemplating doing instead, but after passing through Queenstown on my tour around New Zealand last year that one ended up being my preferred option.

There really wasn't a lot in it though and flipping a coin would probably have been as good a way of making the choice. Give them a phone call and have a chat with them about the courses though, I found both Non-Stop and Peak Leaders very helpful on the phone without feeling like I was being over sold anything by them either.

jimdev

I used http://www.skiinstructortraining.co.nz/

I thought they were great and would recommend them to anyone.

Jim

AndRoiD

very helpful info guys.

so far ive been looking at http://www.skiinstructortraining.co.nz/index.html, http://www.peakleaders.com/ and http://www.rookieacademy.com/

a friend of a friend went on a ski instructor course last year in NZ so i am going to talk to him and get some advice. Hopefully get something sorted shortly.

thanks for the great advice robinph, so far i have went ahead and requested a few different brochures from different companies and will hopefully come to some kind of decision sooner rather than later.

robinph

Just merging all the instrutor course info together.