The Next Doctor - 2008 Xmas Special

monkeyfudge

Surprised there isn't a thread yet.

What did everyone think?

I think it's the best xmas special they've done so far... but that's really, really not saying much.

I think for the most part this episode works... just completely falls flat on it's face at the thought of the cybermen needing orphans to turn big wheels to power a giant cyberman.

Surely a single cyberman must have the equivalent strength of at least 25 malnourished orphans... surely they could have come up with a better way to generate power that wouldn't have garnered so much suspicion.

Of course if you'd been watching The Iron Giant on TV earlier that morning you'd have seen huge similarities with the Cyber King.

But other than the orphan nonsense it was pretty good.... Kirwan made a good villain... the next doctor stuff felt a little forced but was still entertaining to watch. And yes... overall the best xmas episode they've done yet.... and one that didn't feel like it had christmas shoehorned into it.

Rev Hellfire

I thought the initial few minutes looked promising with the 'next' doctor and kirwan was good in a mustache twirling villain sort of way, but beyond that it was pure crud, as seems to be the way of the xmas specials.
The cybermen have always been the runts of the Doctor Who enemies, making the Slitheen look like terror personified.

worst... episode... ever... well not really 'cos there's just so much dire shíte already.

BuffyBot

Unimpressed, really.

It didn't hang together all that well. Kirwan worked in a campy sort of way. Morrisey loaded on the anguish, but did the best with what he was given. Rosita was one-dimensional but had potential (a new historical assistant for the Doctor might actually be fun!). The plot, as it was, just was swiss-cheese.

Not all that impressed, to be honest.

Doctor DooM

I must admit I am sold on anything ith a giant robot in it.

I quite enjoyed the episode. When I say that, it wouldn't be an episode I'd show someone if they were interested in getting into Who for the first time (which one podcast I listen to says is the tre marker of a good episode).

Kirwan was good, albiet every time she spoke I wanted some m + s chocolate cake. MMMmmmm.

Morrissey was hammy but then the role required that. I am not sold.

DT was DT, nothing new to the role, usual histronics, it was 10 being 10, which is fine for a Christmas episode. I quite liked the "they break my heart" bit.

The Cyber shades made sense to me, it was the cyber men making troops without their usual resources.

Rosetta was cool, I was down with her, for the short time we saw her.

I liked the scenery ad the setting. BBC are costume drama kings

I didn't find the plot so incredibly unbelievable while watching it in retrospect it's a plot invoving kids to get kids watching.

Special effects- AWESOME. Giant freaking robot of giantness. Will rugby tackle anyone who says otherwise.

I'd agree wth monkey fudge this is the best Christmas special, handily, but it's not going to have Moffat quaking in his boots about taking over.


I knew he was not the next Doctor the second they didn't show the sound of his heart beating, that telegraphed the eding miles away.


EDIT: I missed one thing which was my favourite moment!

I know Russell T can be a bit of a fanboy, but I loved the little moment honouring the 9 previous Doctors. Especally McGann, there was probably alot of work involved involved in securing the rights to show that.

Stark

Well to start with the good: the entire episode was visually stunning from start to finish. Hats off to those involved in the production. The steampunk cyborg remake of "Ghostbusters" provided some light entertainment as well.

The bad: The script. It stank. There was no sense of threat from the cybermen and the dialogue was your typical RTD "stick in whatever clichéd exchanges that can be hacked from elsewhere" woefest. It's a pity he didn't let someone else write the script for this one because with the budget and the production team that they had, they could have produced something amazing.

ixoy

Ah I enjoyed it for the most and it was the best of the Christmas specials. The plot was stupid, but I've come to expect nothing less from RTD - logic, for example, was never a predominant feature in his scripts so I'm not even bothered working the energy to question why they'd have orphans working the factory, other than it was the Dickensian aspect required (ohh I worked in a 'Wire' reference!).

All the acting was OTT but really, would we expect anything different from an RTD-penned X-mas special? Morrissey's could have been served up alongside the Christmas turkey, but he was still quite enjoyable and Kirwarn reminded me of the high camp that we had in the likes of the Rani (I almost thought she would be the Rani given you can make Rani from Hartigan).

The Iron Giant was a bit dumb at the end - probably not required but again over-analysing RTD's perchance for Big Things Go Smashey Boom is pointless so we'll say that it looked great instead. In fact the whole episode looked fantastic, so the technical team deserve their Christmas' holidays.

Overall, fine for what it was - an X-mas special for families and little kids, with a Christmas theme that wasn't too forced. One thing that puzzled me though - apparently bits of this were edited for press screenings so as not to shock or allow spoilers. What bit? Where we ever meant to believe he was the next Doctor? :rolleyes:Of course not - they'd have announced the casting news. Hell RTD even said the casting decision was in Moffat's hands. I didn't even buy it before the episode started... Was that what it was?

Doctor DooM

ixoy wrote: »

Ah I enjoyed it for the most and it was the best of the Christmas specials. The plot was stupid, but I've come to expect nothing less from RTD - logic, for example, was never a predominant feature in his scripts so I'm not even bothered working the energy to question why they'd have orphans working the factory, other than it was the Dickensian aspect required (ohh I worked in a 'Wire' reference!).

All the acting was OTT but really, would we expect anything different from an RTD-penned X-mas special? Morrissey's could have been served up alongside the Christmas turkey, but he was still quite enjoyable and Kirwarn reminded me of the high camp that we had in the likes of the Rani (I almost thought she would be the Rani given you can make Rani from Hartigan).

The Iron Giant was a bit dumb at the end - probably not required but again over-analysing RTD's perchance for Big Things Go Smashey Boom is pointless so we'll say that it looked great instead. In fact the whole episode looked fantastic, so the technical team deserve their Christmas' holidays.

Overall, fine for what it was - an X-mas special for families and little kids, with a Christmas theme that wasn't too forced. One thing that puzzled me though - apparently bits of this were edited for press screenings so as not to shock or allow spoilers. What bit? Where we ever meant to believe he was the next Doctor? :rolleyes:Of course not - they'd have announced the casting news. Hell RTD even said the casting decision was in Moffat's hands. I didn't even buy it before the episode started... Was that what it was?

1) There has never been a programme ever which would not have been improved by the presence of a giant robot!

2) I, also, spent the last 5 minutes waiting for this big reveal. Was a little disappointed by that.

monkeyfudge

Another thing that was odd about the oprhans.... other than the fact that they were only working for about half an hour (does the robot run on the energy generated by orphan misery?) But anyway... were none of the actors full members of equity or something? Not one of them had a speaking role.... it really felt odd.... Not one gasp when they doors open and the see the cybermen, not one scream as they run out of the place with explosions going off all around...

Also Morrisey's son seemed to have alot of eyeliner on for some reason when we first saw him.

Doctor DooM

While it pains me to in any way try to worm RTD's way out of anything, the children might have been being used because of sheer numbers rather than strength- needed to flip multiple switches, move multiple cogs, shovel coal into different generators etc. It was established the cybermen where very low in numbers.


Is anyone else thinking RTD went into overdrive with the self references lately? Are you my mommy with the sontarans? The blink thing in this?

321654

The worst episode of Who i've ever seen. And that includes the other Christmas specials.

It was cack.

The other doctor was cack.
The asistant was cack.
Kirwan was cack.

Daemos

Second-worst episode since the show's revival.

Only "The Long Game" from season 1 was worse.

Nevyn

Best xmas invasion ever.

buffalo

I gotta agree with the naysayers on this one - left me distinctly unimpressed. About halfway through I wondered why I was bothering to watch it at all. The giant robot was awesome, but the dialogue was woeful, as was the plot. The episode was shaky throughout, without any explanations for tonnes of aspects.

Although it has made me look forward even more to Moffatt's takeover of the programme.

iguana

BuffyBot wrote: »

(a new historical assistant for the Doctor might actually be fun!).

I'd really love to see a historical assistant. But I'd like it to be a real historical figure like Jane Grey, rescued from execution in order to travel with the Doctor. It could be why Elizabeth 1 thought he was her enemy.

As for this special I pretty much agree with MonkeyFudge's assessment, except that it was big clumpy mascara Morrissey's kid was wearing as opposed to eyeliner.

Doctor DooM

iguana wrote: »

I'd really love to see a historical assistant. But I'd like it to be a real historical figure like Jane Grey, rescued from execution in order to travel with the Doctor. It could be why Elizabeth 1 thought he was her enemy.

As for this special I pretty much agree with MonkeyFudge's assessment, except that it was big clumpy mascara Morrissey's kid was wearing as opposed to eyeliner.

You can wait your turn, Sally Sparrow first.

monkeyfudge

iguana wrote: »

As for this special I pretty much agree with MonkeyFudge's assessment, except that it was big clumpy mascara Morrissey's kid was wearing as opposed to eyeliner.

Either way there have been many cases of forced transvestism involving Cybermen and Morrisey's son over the years...

Doctor DooM

monkeyfudge wrote: »

Either way there have been many cases of forced transvestism involving Cybermen and Morrisey's son over the years...

...see?

Ziggy_1972

I liked it, for the most part. I think it was the best of the Christmas specials so far, but probably not as good as any of the regular episodes.
Where it began to lose me was all the orphans running away, I began thinking of Oliver. Then, when DT swung on a rope with a cutlas in hand, I began to think about Peter Pan. Too much panto.

BlitzKrieg

only got around to this now (despite having sky at home my family dont normally watch tv at christmas and my many attempts to slip away to watch were futile)

I enjoyed it, but I have little problem enjoying nonsense episodes and as a huge steampunk fan I loved the robot and the shades. I especially liked the shades because of how simple the design/costume was yet with a quality actor underneath and good camerawork they worked brilliantly for the most part (I think there was one shot were it was a very poor blurrey cgi movement which didnt work) Steampunk cyberking looked cool, shame it didnt do much, but meh.

I liked the companion in this one, but I noticed I seem to have a thing for black companions (some sort of reverse rascism?) they always seem to work better as a counter to the doctor for some reason.


Overall as *the next doctor* summed it up for me what a load of wonderful nonsense.

And yes the self referencing was a bit much, in its defence though, it was referencing the best of season 3 (the fop watch and blink which was the first episode of Who I ever saw thanks to monkeyfudge)

its shame there wasnt anything at the end for the next epsiode. With only 5 specials you'd think they'd tie them to each other a bit closer, especially with two of them being christmas specials.

pixelburp

"The Doctor will return in ... The Planet of the Dead"
Yipee!

I too only just now got to watch it, and like the rest of ye I generally enjoyed it. With any Christmas Special, one lessons ones expectations & doubly so after the sheer rubbish that was the previous two. I was pleasantly surprised by it all & found it a good meaningless runaround. Dismissing an Xmas special as a "worst ever" is kind of missing the point to be honest.

Again, I too am a glutton for all things steampunk so Cybermen in Victorian London was one thing, but the cyberking was just too cool for school

I liked Morrisey though & his character was likeable and sympathetic. I kept it to myself, but I had begun to suspect that perhaps he wasn't a con-man but perhaps some kind of clone, copy or convinced of this identity through Science, so I was right!

As for the story itself, I wasn't too put out by RTD's self referencing to be honest; it was forgiven for finally showing the new audience the older doctors so there was balance there. Nor was I even put out by his usual glib resolutions. But sure if the old writers could dismiss a Loch Ness monster in London, why not RTD & a giant stompy robot!

It's a shame though of the 4 xmas specials, only two of them were any cop (The Christmas Invasion & this one). I still shudder thinking of the Racnoss & Kylie Minogue in a forklift.

BlitzKrieg

were there rumours abound that the master/john simm was gonna be in one of the specials???

I know there were similar rumours during the run up to the finale but one does hope...

monkeyfudge

The Planet of the Dead may be Skaro seeing as the first time the Doctor went to Skaro it was in an episode called The Dead Planet.

BlitzKrieg

groan not more bloody daleks.

They're cool and all but seriously RTD has some serious hard on for them.

pixelburp

Well that depends on whether the BBC renewed their contract with the Nation estate. I presume they have, given how they're on nearly ever piece of Who merchandise. The name though could also refer to Gallifrey. Though in essence it could be absolutely anything at all really (which reminds me; when's filming starting for the specials?)

Besides, the name doesn't always reflect the episode, or what you expect. "Voyage of the Damned" sounded like something ominous, creepy & suspensful. Not ... what it eventually turned out to be

monkeyfudge

I wonder if RTD will try and wrap up his time war storyline next year... probably not...

Doctor DooM

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

were there rumours abound that the master/john simm was gonna be in one of the specials???

I know there were similar rumours during the run up to the finale but one does hope...

I don't know if the following has a high fanwank level but

the master is supposed to appear in flash back in one of the specials.

BlitzKrieg

high enough for me

Doctor DooM

monkeyfudge wrote: »

I wonder if RTD will try and wrap up his time war storyline next year... probably not...

A super high fanwank level rumour (of which there is zero proof) is that there may be a flashback Paul McGann episode. I personally think thats crap.

pfishfood

Could have been better and the episode was missing something and it sure as hell wasnt Kylie.

Ziggy_1972

SDooM wrote: »

A super high fanwank level rumour (of which there is zero proof) is that there may be a flashback Paul McGann episode. I personally think thats crap.

Well I posted in another thread that it might be interesting to have a Time War story featuring Paul McGann, in which he died at the end, but that wasn't based on anything other than the voices in my head. I doubt if they would ever do something like that.
Unless they did something like The Three Doctors or The Five Doctors, but let's face it, they weren't very good, and do any of us REALLY want to see Colin or Sylvester back?

pixelburp

Ziggy_1972 wrote: »

[...] and do any of us REALLY want to see Colin or Sylvester back?

On the basis of their work for the Big Finish audio novels, I would! Particularly Colin Baker; the Big Finish writers really smoothed out his edges from the TV series, gave him a brilliant companion (65 year old professor Evelyn), some decent plots and characters & I found myself loving his stories!

The Mad Hatter

I'm with Neil Gaiman's assessment - I liked it, but kept hoping for it to turn a corner where I'd start to love it. Yes, the plot was a bit fuzzy, but then I don't watch Doctor Who for plot consistency. It lacked the imagination for which I admire the show, though.

The Mad Hatter

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

groan not more bloody daleks.

They're cool and all but seriously RTD has some serious hard on for them.

Well, the problem is they keep getting wiped out in one swell foop. They'd be a lot scarier if they didn't seem so easy to annihilate.

I think Moffat's said in interview that he wants to move away from well-known villains, though.

EmoMatt15

In all fairness the episode was pretty crap...
Although the Doctor having Christmas dinner...What a shock ending!! =O

popebenny16

i liked the personal drama that Morreseys character went through, i thought the funny aspects were good - like the fob watch going "boing" as he fell apart...

yet again the inseperable walls between universes and the void seperates.... which i did not like one bit not the fact that the void actually isnt one, not if the cybermen are fighting the Daleks in there and nicking infostamps to boot!! Quarry setting for the last RTD special anyone?

I didnt like the robot - sorry!!! I thought it was there for families and kids, and yes i have defended previous specials on that basis, but given that we have this big drama going on with morressy and then we have the iron giant lubering about (why!!) blowing up ramdom bits of London slums (again- why??) it just looked like RTD woke up ina sweat one morning realising he had to wallop out a big ending to his story.

I also got the fact he wasnt the Doctor when DT listened to he chest, and I liked the little touches like the past doctors, and the mention of the companions breaking his heart. In the end i thought it was the best christmas show, all the others in the family of popebenny are sticking with last years so there you go!!

Perfect christmas viewing, but slyly confriming the 6pm slot in the process