Profit share coaching

DeadMoney

Hi, I have been chatting with a coach who I met through cardrunners about a long term profit share coaching program. The coach in question is a solid winner at the mid stakes short handed games and is looking for a student (me) to start a long term coaching program, where instead of charging an hourly rate he takes a percentage of my over all profit. I have heard very good things about this coach and he seems pretty dedicated towards working with me to help me move up. I am currently playing 100nl and some 200nl so I cannot really afford the standard hourly rates that small to mid stakes coaches are asking.

I would also much rather work along side a coach who is more interested in my progress than just some guy who is willing to sweat me and take $300 per hour. We are still negotiating some percentage figures but he has assured me that it will be pretty reasonable. At 100nl I am not too concerned with my profits as of yet and am far more interested in developing a solid winning style which will take me through the mid stakes. In other words, I don't mind giving away some of profits in exchange for the long term EV that good coaching would provide.

The deal also states that my coach can only be paid out of any profit that is made, and if I am not beating the limits, no payment is required. So, I am just wondering what people would regard as a fair deal in these circumstances? I am new to coaching and I know that this method of payment is not very common. However, I am just trying to get an idea of what people would regard as reasonable in this case.

5starpool

How long a period would the profit share be? I must admit I would have no real idea how to quantify what you are asking, so will leave that to others, but I am just curious, and I presume it would play a part in any deal anyhow.

jbravado

How long do you have to pay him out of your profits? What %?

Id imagine the online pokes is hard enough to beat and will continue to get harder without giving up a % of any winnings long term.

phantom_lord

sounds expensive

gondorff

Sounds like dead money to me.

flushje

gondorff wrote: »

Sounds like dead money to me.

DeadMoney

When I say long term, I mean that as the intention of the coaching deal i.e, to move up through limits together with the coach. However, if at any stage I am unhappy with the coaching and feel that I want to continue alone, or find a different coach, I may leave. I agree that this would be expensive enough over a long period of time but seeing as I am free to terminate the deal at any stage, I think I should give it a go. Even if it brought me from 100NL to comfortably beating 200NL, I would be happy.
The coach in question is trying to start a package like this where he takes a student from small stakes to mid stakes over a period of time. My coaching will be a test of the package and if it works out he will be starting it up as a regular thing. I don't think I have too much to lose here at this point. I may take a while to move up having to pay out a % of my profit but you can beat small stakes with many leaks in your game and then get crushed at 200 and 400nl. If I could work on identifying these leaks now and exploiting them when I move limits, I think I will have a much better chance of becoming a winning mid stakes player.
I will post up the percentage figure that we agree on when he gets back to me and see what you guys think.

zuutroy

DeadMoney wrote: »

Even if it brought me from 100NL to comfortably beating 200NL, I would be happy.

The vast majority of whats involved in this is just watching videos, reading and replying to hands and discussing them on IM. An occasional hour sweat from a coach to look for leaks is good too, but I don't think it would require a detailed program which requires you handing over a % of your hard earned.

Tight Ted

Definitely take the deal, sounds to me like you've nothing to lose. With a poker ally like this looking over your back, this time 6 months you could be beating 5/10, and if it doesn't work out you can just quit him. Anyway, as you said, you just want to become a great player, not looking for profits immediately.

Seemed to work for Mbolt1 with Leatherass.

'Ok, so I know I have talked a fair amount about Mbolt1 in some of my blogs, but he keeps doing things that make me talking about his success unavoidable. I got a call from him a few hours ago and he told me that he had his first $100k month! I simply can’t believe the success he is having. I can believe it of course, but it really is amazing. Early this year he was playing quarter games online and he came to me asking if I would help him out. I looked at some of his Poker Tracker stuff and then talked some poker with him and came away believing that he had what it took to be a great poker player. It was then that we struck a deal and since then he has been plowing through the limits simply destroying the games at a rate that is simply mind numbing. I think about a year ago he was selling pest control and now he is unquestionably the hottest up and coming poker player on the internet. I guess I have always believed that with good coaching and strong work ethic that anyone could achieve their dreams in poker. But I had no idea that I could help him to become this good, this fast. It is simply incredible what Mbolt1 has done. The only two people I can recall that moved up this fast and won so much was CTS and Brian Townsend, both Cardrunners coaches. Now I don’t think that you’ll ever see Mbolt1 at the nosebleeds because he is pretty conservative as am I, but for what he is trying to accomplish, I’m not sure anyone has done much better. '

DeadMoney

That's pretty sick! I believe Valor from boards is currently being coached by Leatherass. Needless to say, he is in good hands.

DeadMoney

DeadMoney wrote: »

That's pretty sick! I believe Valor from boards is currently being coached by Leatherass. Needless to say, he is in good hands.

Oh wait my mistake. Its Jared Tendler.

Tight Ted

Jared Tendler is the 'mental coach' guy from Stoxpoker, Leatherass is the top strat guy, Leatherass was the guy who discovered Tendler AFAIK

fatguy

Sounds like a win/win to me. What cut is he looking for? Anything above 25% would be excessive to me, I think.

RoundTower

this sounds like a good deal for you if the guy is in any way good

The problem is that if the guy is in anyway good he's probably not offering this to random students. But if he's trying something new or has faith in you for some reason then it's definitely good.

Careful you don't give away your winnings by giving him a % freeroll over a short period. For example if he took 1/4 your winnings every day you win, but nothing every day you lose, he would probably make more than you. Make sure you get makeup or only reconcile it monthly+ or both.