RTD insults Stargate franchise - FIGHT!

ixoy

RTD was on a radio show recently (link) promoting his upcoming Christmas special, and the subject of the casting of the next Doctor came up. One of the names was Robert Carlyle and, upon hearing he had been cast in 'Stargate: Universe', RTD commented thusly:

"Stargate, can you believe it?" Davies said. "That was a surprise. Has his agent watched it?"

Not withstanding the fact that it is a very unprofessional comment (not too surprising given RTD's unchecked ego), but it is IMO just pure wrong - both shows have produced trash (including RTD himself) and some excellent episodes. Stargate is far more pure sci-fi than the more fantastical Who (certainly when under RTD) but both also have some elements in common, including a line in humour. Both have been successful as franchises too and yeah, I believe the peaks of both shows are on a par.

I of course, have a love for both shows: I've seen all the episodes of 'Stargate: SG-1' and 'Stargate: Atlantis', seen all the episodes of 'Doctor Who' from Season 7 onwards (and a lot of the earlier ones too, including trawling through the reconstructions), so I'm in a fine position to judge both and I find RTD's criticism very much a case of glass houses and throwing stones. I'd have loved to have seen him articulate how his show, which has given us the Slitheen as well as the likes of the Daleks, is so much superior to the Stargate franchise.

In other words RTD: bring it bitch!

Stark

I think when you rate both shows on the "running, explosions, fantastic, brilliant and same sex innuendo" scale, you'll find that Stargate is vastly inferior.

Daemos

Did anyone else catch (what I like to believe) the references to Stargate in The Sound Of Drums? The citadel of the time lords looked a lot like atlantis, and does the untempored schism remind anyone of anything? Big, round, blue vortex...?

pixelburp

Well, I suspect there's some bias given the OP is a mod for the Stargate forum & but perhaps Ixoy isn't taking a passing remark with the tongue in cheek due. If you listen to RTD in the interview that he makes that comment he's clearly just taking the mick & from past experience he LOVES winding "fans" up so I wouldn't get all hot and bothered tbh. Besides, expressing an opinion is hardly sign of a rampaging ego. If one exists it's only because of an over-analysis of ever little thing he says

I laughed a little as I find Stargate tedious; it strikes as a solid-if-unremarkable show with nothing interesting to say about anything & that has somehow contrived to establish a number of spin-offs based on a limited & unexciting premise, papering it over with some (admittedly quality) quickfire 1-liners. Not to mention a ridiculous amount of plot recycling this side of a holodek-gone-wrong (mostly Atlantis seems to take the blame there). It also strikes as a show that desperately wants to be an onrunning franchise ala Trek or Who. You kinda see this in the constant mining of genre TV actors. Though having said that, any show that wants to give more screentime to Jewel Staite is fine by me!

Mmmm Jewel.

ixoy

pixelburp wrote: »

Well, I suspect there's some bias given the OP is a mod for the Stargate forum & but perhaps Ixoy isn't taking a passing remark with the tongue in cheek due.

Well maybe it was tongue-in-cheek but I'm not RTD's greatest fan so I didn't give him the benefit of the doubt As to bias, p'raps but on the other hand I've every episode of "Doctor Who" (S1-S30, including the necessary reconstructions) and the spin-offs, and well over 200 "Doctor Who" books (and some spin offs) as well as other merchandise (including a nifty phone), so I'm pretty much a fan of both!

Not to mention a ridiculous amount of plot recycling this side of a holodek-gone-wrong (mostly Atlantis seems to take the blame there).

Can be with "Atlantis" but I think the other elements generally balance it out. Same with most sci-fi that runs too long and Who certainly did it too - hell curse of all genre shows. Who should have less limits in theory, but it doesn't always play out.

It also strikes as a show that desperately wants to be an onrunning franchise ala Trek or Who. You kinda see this in the constant mining of genre TV actors.

That's probably true - Robert Carlyle is a good idea in that respect, rather than just constantly gathering up all the left-overs from the world of cancelled sci-fi!

As to wanting to be a franchise a la Trek or Who - Trek, sure, you'd be right there but Who is only a franchise in the last four years (i.e. after Atlantis came about). It's surprising at times how short of a time Who has been back in the public eye really (especially as it's got two spin offs already, with a third constantly being mooted) and I wonder if it's going to fade with DT leaving as he is very popular.

Rev Hellfire

Stargate has one major advantage over the last few series of Who, its a show which knows exactly what it is (ie. light entertainment with a comedy element) and on the whole successfully deliveries this.

Who on the other hand is a second rate show which only has its name to trade on and if not for the now thread bare nostalgia 'value' would have been universally panned for the rubbish it has foisted upon us. Instead we get "Gawd another god awful episode, that's a classic who, bless".

Anyway Battlestar kicks both of them to touch

Rev Hellfire

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Stargate has one major advantage over the last few series of Who, its a show which knows exactly what it is (ie. light entertainment with a comedy element) and on the whole successfully deliveries this.

Who on the other hand is a second rate show which only has its name to trade on and if not for the now thread bare nostalgia 'value' would have been universally panned for the rubbish it has foisted upon us. Instead we get "Gawd another god awful episode, that's a classic who, bless".

Anyway Battlestar kicks both of them to touch

Have to disagree with you here. Who knows exactly what it is too, a kids tv show. It certainly has some adult elements (as so many child-oriented shows and movies do these days so as to appeal to parents too) but ultimately it panders, as all shows do, to it's target audience: children.

pixelburp

ixoy wrote: »

Well maybe it was tongue-in-cheek but I'm not RTD's greatest fan so I didn't give him the benefit of the doubt As to bias, p'raps but on the other hand I've every episode of "Doctor Who" (S1-S30, including the necessary reconstructions) and the spin-offs, and well over 200 "Doctor Who" books (and some spin offs) as well as other merchandise (including a nifty phone), so I'm pretty much a fan of both!

Fair enough, I have seen most old Whos myself, but I definitely wouldn't get too worried if RTD doesn't like Stargate. Like I said, he loves stoking the fans up something rotten, Who fans in particular. I would be far more worried about passing comments regarding a musical episode next year!

ixoy wrote: »

That's probably true - Robert Carlyle is a good idea in that respect, rather than just constantly gathering up all the left-overs from the world of cancelled sci-fi!

As to wanting to be a franchise a la Trek or Who - Trek, sure, you'd be right there but Who is only a franchise in the last four years (i.e. after Atlantis came about). It's surprising at times how short of a time Who has been back in the public eye really (especially as it's got two spin offs already, with a third constantly being mooted) and I wonder if it's going to fade with DT leaving as he is very popular.

Hey, don't get me wrong, fair play for Carlyle being snapped up & perhaps in a way Who is responsible for making sci-fi OK territory for "legitimate" actors to be seen in.

I disagree though that Who is only a franchise for 4 years. It was a franchise beforehand, just a stagnant one in need of rebooting that had a longer-than-usual pause (compared to Trek for example).

popebenny16

Well, first of all i cannot criticise ioxy for this thread, and i dont think there is any bias as stargate mod.

I love stargate, i think there is a very clever air of humour in some of the characters, and they have a fine set of writers. I think i'm like ioxy in reverse with my stargate stuff here at home!!

Maybe Robert Carylle may have passed on Who. God knows.

What I do know is that this is the first thread i have looked at in a while due to some issues in real life. If i find that Rev Hellfire's comment is not a one off Rev Hellfire will find the exit door hitting his or her arse pretty sharpish.

Ziggy_1972

ixoy wrote: »

I wonder if it's going to fade with DT leaving as he is very popular.

If it can survive the departure of Tom Baker, it can survive pretty much anything. Although Sylvester came close to killing it.

The fundamental mistake that Trek made was Enterprise. It lost existing fans, without drawing in any new fans. If any franchise is to survive, it must bring in a new audience.

Stark

If all Enterprise managed to achieve was keeping a quarter of its original audience, it would have done very well. 12 million people watched the first few episodes, 1.5 million watched the last few!

pixelburp

In fairness, Trek is a bad example because in many respects it's the opposite of Who; a show that took its canon as gospel & is at pains to ensure is 99% accurate, at the expense of being a show that's approachable by a mainstream audience. Who did the opposite; new it needed the audience so was willing to play with the format

Ziggy_1972

I don't want to get too much off-topic, but my point about Trek was that The Next Generation drew in a huge new audience who could watch it without knowing the original serirs. DS9 and Voyager didn't do this, they just continued in the same timeline. Voyager actually went back in time, and even die-hard trekkies got bored with it. I'm dreading the new film, set in the acadamy with young Kirk et al. They need to jump orward a couple of hundred years with an entirely new scenario if they want to pull in a new audience.
I'm a little concerned that Who has become a bit introspective, and self-referrencing. I hope that the next series forgets everthing that has gone before. Who has the advantage that it can replace the lead actor every few years, and totally change the character of the show.
I'm kinda looking forward to the new Stargate series, I just hope it's not too much like Voyager.