Lisbon II confirms that Government has been conspiring

Run_to_da_hills

The recent announcement of a Lisbon II vote has confirmed to the Irish public that since the Lisbon referendum last summer the Irish Government has been conspiring in secret with the EU Commission and Europe’s political elite to subvert the sovereign democratic will of the Irish people rather than represent it. The subversion of the democratic will of the Irish people now means that Ireland has become a post democratic state.

All Europeans need to open their eyes and see very clearly that today coercion not democracy is at the heart of the EU project. For daring to vote against the direction and scope of the European project as demanded by the Lisbon Treaty, the Irish people will over the coming months be subject to a massive campaign of threats and fear by anti-democratic forces spearheaded by our own Government and the EU elite to force us into submission.

Using the fear of economic isolation is untruthful and false, as it is the same failed neo liberal economic polices that created the current world economic crisis that are now to be permanently embedded into the treaty, passing Lisbon would be as great an economic disaster for Europe as it would be for democracy in Europe.

During the Dark Ages Irish monks kept European civilisation and learning safe, during World War II we helped keep democracy alive the last time democracy was threatened in Europe. In the coming months it will be the turn of the Irish people to shoulder this burden alone so democracy can be kept alive long enough for the EU project to be rescued. This is a burden the Irish people must be ready for and accept willingly on behalf of the peoples of Europe.

Hitman Actual

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Using the fear of economic isolation is untruthful and false, as it is the same failed neo liberal economic polices that created the current world economic crisis that are now to be permanently embedded into the treaty, passing Lisbon would be as great an economic disaster for Europe as it would be for democracy in Europe.

Hmmm. Lisbon does what now?

I am pie

A second referendum is undemocratic ? OK, it might be annoying, it might not be a good idea but it's certainly not undemocratic. If the democratic will of the people is that the treaty should be rejected again after securing guarantees (not getting into the legalities of these as not relevant) then the treaty will be rejected.

Sounds democratic to me.

Nowhere does the treaty specify required economic policy for member states.

To be taken seriously please explain how referendums are democratic. Point out where in the Lisbon Treaty neo liberal economics are mandated for member states.

Have you even bothered to inform yourself to the extent of reading the summary of the treaty circulated last time?

trellheim

the Irish Government has been conspiring in secret with the EU Commission and Europe’s political elite to subvert the sovereign democratic will of the Irish people rather than represent it

what is worse is you believe this twaddle

the Irish Government has been conspiring in secret

it was mentioned several times in the press that BC was visiting all the heads of gov to try and hack out a deal ... do some research first will you please ?

to subvert the sovereign democratic will

Where in the original referendum (http://www.lisbontreaty2008.ie/ReferendumWordingEnglish.pdf) can you find the "never again shall we want this " ?

It's completely legal; if you disagree kindly get elected as Taoiseach and change it.

Guy:Incognito

Maybe second time round people will educate themselves and read about it instead of moaning that they dont know what it's about so "I'll vote no just in case"
It's amazing how many people listened to a guy who popped up from no where, with an iffey backround and an agenda (maybe changing his name from adolf fooled everyone :-)) over pretty much every other politician in the country.

K-9

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The recent announcement of a Lisbon II vote has confirmed to the Irish public that since the Lisbon referendum last summer the Irish Government has been conspiring in secret with the EU Commission and Europe’s political elite to subvert the sovereign democratic will of the Irish people rather than represent it. The subversion of the democratic will of the Irish people now means that Ireland has become a post democratic state.

They aren't very good at conspiring then! It was all over the fecking papers and TV!

Must have missed the part were Lisbon was ratified without our Democratic consent though.

evercloserunion

trellheim wrote: »

what is worse is you believe this twaddle

it was mentioned several times in the press that BC was visiting all the heads of gov to try and hack out a deal ... do some research first will you please ?


Where in the original referendum (http://www.lisbontreaty2008.ie/ReferendumWordingEnglish.pdf) can you find the "never again shall we want this " ?

It's completely legal; if you disagree kindly get elected as Taoiseach and change it.

He'll have to do a lot more than become Taoiseach I'm afraid! If he wants to restrict our democratically elected government's constitutionally protected right to hold a referendum as they please, he'll have to change the constitution which will require a referendum!

Seems a lot of trouble to go to but that's the price one pays for trying to subvert our constitutional order.

VoidStarNull

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The recent announcement of a Lisbon II vote has confirmed to the Irish public that since the Lisbon referendum last summer the Irish Government has been conspiring in secret...

Psst.. Fortunately I managed to spot them at it on RTE news...

... with the EU Commission and Europe’s political elite to subvert the sovereign democratic will of the Irish people rather than represent it. The subversion of the democratic will of the Irish people now means that Ireland has become a post democratic state.

Oh No! Does that mean we can't elect leaders who represent our views on Europe anymore?

All Europeans need to open their eyes and see very clearly that today coercion not democracy is at the heart of the EU project. For daring to vote against the direction and scope of the European project as demanded by the Lisbon Treaty, the Irish people will over the coming months be subject to...

Arghh.. They're going to arrest us! Torture us! Shoot us!

...a massive campaign of threats and fear by anti-democratic forces spearheaded by our own Government and the EU elite to force us into submission.

Even worse! They're going to try to persuade us! How awful!

Using the fear of economic isolation is untruthful and false, as it is the same failed neo liberal economic polices that created the current world economic crisis that are now to be permanently embedded into the treaty, passing Lisbon would be as great an economic disaster for Europe as it would be for democracy in Europe.

Quite right, we should keep all the Viagra manufactured in Cork for ourselves. It's something like 50% of the world supply - should keep us going for a while!

During the Dark Ages Irish monks kept European civilisation and learning safe, during World War II we helped keep democracy alive the last time democracy was threatened in Europe.

Yes, we saved the Jews from being massacred and liberated western Europe from the Nazis. I know cos I watch the re-runs on BBC every evening.

In the coming months it will be the turn of the Irish people to shoulder this burden alone so democracy can be kept alive long enough for the EU project to be rescued. This is a burden the Irish people must be ready for and accept willingly on behalf of the peoples of Europe.

The people of Europe desperately need someone to sit in a corner and sulk on their behalf. Ireland should volunteer - we are good at this!

johnnyskeleton

Unfortunately we're going to see a lot more of this rubbish, and it won't just come from the occasional troll on boards.ie. I had hoped that Lisbon II would actually be about the issue, but it looks like it will be it will be just more of this scaremongering and mudslinging from both sides.

murphaph

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The recent announcement of a Lisbon II vote has confirmed to the Irish public that since the Lisbon referendum last summer the Irish Government has been conspiring in secret with the EU Commission and Europe’s political elite to subvert the sovereign democratic will of the Irish people rather than represent it. The subversion of the democratic will of the Irish people now means that Ireland has become a post democratic state.

All Europeans need to open their eyes and see very clearly that today coercion not democracy is at the heart of the EU project. For daring to vote against the direction and scope of the European project as demanded by the Lisbon Treaty, the Irish people will over the coming months be subject to a massive campaign of threats and fear by anti-democratic forces spearheaded by our own Government and the EU elite to force us into submission.

Using the fear of economic isolation is untruthful and false, as it is the same failed neo liberal economic polices that created the current world economic crisis that are now to be permanently embedded into the treaty, passing Lisbon would be as great an economic disaster for Europe as it would be for democracy in Europe.

During the Dark Ages Irish monks kept European civilisation and learning safe, during World War II we helped keep democracy alive the last time democracy was threatened in Europe. In the coming months it will be the turn of the Irish people to shoulder this burden alone so democracy can be kept alive long enough for the EU project to be rescued. This is a burden the Irish people must be ready for and accept willingly on behalf of the peoples of Europe.

OP, you'll get ripped to shreds here with that stuff but I agree there are sinister forces at play and we would be foolish to blindly accept what our political leaders around Europe have to say on the matter. When pretty much ALL the politicians agree on something...I smell a rat. There seems to be a strong aversion across Europe (including the UK) to progress the project without really asking the people if that's what they want. I remain convinced more by the actions of the politicians in the wake of the rejection of the constitution than by the current shenanigans that something is afoot.

Furious-Dave

I'm just going begin this post by saying that although I do want another referendum I'd prefer too see a general election before that referendum comes about. IMO the Government has failed us and the second referendum should be held by a new Government.
That aside, referenda by their very nature cannot be anything BUT democratic. The only way that the Government can be undemocratic about the Lisbon Treaty is if they decide to ratify it anyway. The people said no once and all the Government are asking now is "are you sure?". It's still down to the decision of the people. Furthermore, there will always be dealings between the Governments of different nations, especially when they are trying to get treaties ratified. I still can't believe that some people are talking as if we are on the brink of a new "Nazi Europe". I mentioned it to my Dad just now and he said "some people are just touched".

Robbo

Congrats on having a letter published by the Advo, RTDH. You join illustrious company.

oscarBravo

Rtdh, keep the conspiracies in the conspiracy forum. I won't warn you again.