Pittbull Type Dogs

patrick2007

Hi All,

Just wondering what the current law is on these animals? And if they're enforced at all?
The reason I'm asking is I just witnessed a pittbull savaging and killing a pup(not sure what breed), not even a year old I would guess.
Myself and another guy were trying to pull the pittbull but the f****ng thing just wouldnt let go, I'm not from the area but one of the residents gave me a steel bar so I gave it several very hard hits over the head with the bar and the animal never even looked at me, and bent the f**k out of the bar too!! I'm a dog lover myself with 2 collies and am kinda still upset over what I witnessed and what I had to do, having seen this incident I believe these animals should be outlawed,fullstop. And to be honest I couldnt give a s**t what current owners of these dogs think!! Infact if they witnesssed what I did they might change they're tune a little(I'm assuming this post might upset some people). All breeders should be outlawed and let the living dogs die naturally and go extinct. They are a danger to the public!! I will be raising the issue with my local TD. It could have so easily been a young child (it happened in a housing estate)
From what I gathered at the scene the pittbull was a pet so if a pet can do this on the spur of the moment that only backs my argument.
The owner said the gate is normally locked and that some kids must have opened it and thats how the dog got out...
The pup was half alive when I arrived at the scene but with such a savage attack by the pittbull it was dead quite quick, the pup had its neck ripped open and the pittbull was still mauling it when it was dead (sorry for the graphic description and course language earlier in the post)
The Gardai, DSCPA and Dog Waredn were all notifed.
Regards

cowzerp

Pitbulls! the name means little as it could of been any breed!

are known to be human friendly so it would be highly unlikely to atack a child, less likely than most commom type dog pets in fact.

What you witnessed is awful but this could have happened with any breed of dog, the laws on these type dogs are that they should be muzzled and on a lead when in public places, this was obviously against these rules,

these dogs are the most abused breed on the planet and the last thing they need is someone who buys into the media hype and makes matters worse over a once off incident.

Killme00

Where did this happen?

And again this appears to be blaming the breed rather than the deed. Was the owner anywhere to be found?

javaboy

I would argue that any dog, dangerous breed or not, should not be in a position where some kids can just open the gate and let it out. Unless they had to actually force a lock open or climb over the wall to get the dog, the owner didn't have it properly secured.

Saruman

Maybe we should outlaw big giant hairy men as they could probably take a few blows of an iron bar if savaging a young pup.

sorry, im sure it was upsetting but dogs are wild animals and sometimes do what wild animals do. The only difference is they are strong, tough and capable of killing another dog. In fact though, large dogs like these are more content around humans than small dogs. T

You can not condone Mass Genocide of a breed of dog. Hitler tried that once with people, im sure he had his reasons. Maybe he was savaged by some Jews growing up in Austria... who knows.

patrick2007

cowzerp wrote: »

Pitbulls! the name means little as it could of been any breed! I'll admit I'm no expert but I would have a fair idea of the features of such an animal.

are known to be human friendly so it would be highly unlikely to atack a child, less likely than most commom type dog pets in fact.

What you witnessed is awful but this could have happened with any breed of dog, the laws on these type dogs are that they should be muzzled and on a lead when in public places, this was obviously against these rules,

these dogs are the most abused breed on the planet and the last thing they need is someone who buys into the media hype and makes matters worse over a once off incident.

I think we all know what a pittbull looks like.
I know my 2 collies wouldnt savage any other dog.
I'm not buying into any "hype", I'm a very levelled headed individual, and I seriously do not think that type of incident has never happened before with this type of dog.

Killme00 wrote: »

Where did this happen?

And again this appears to be blaming the breed rather than the deed. Was the owner anywhere to be found?

In Dublin.
Yes I am blaming the breed, it was meant to be a pet, pets dont have those type of tendancies. The owner was standing looking on with no control over the dog.

javaboy wrote: »

I would argue that any dog, dangerous breed or not, should not be in a position where some kids can just open the gate and let it out. Unless they had to actually force a lock open or climb over the wall to get the dog, the owner didn't have it properly secured.

It was in a front garden, the walls didnt look that high, not sure how secure the gates were.

Saruman wrote: »

Maybe we should outlaw big giant hairy men as they could probably take a few blows of an iron bar if savaging a young pup.

sorry, im sure it was upsetting but dogs are wild animals and sometimes do what wild animals do. The only difference is they are strong, tough and capable of killing another dog. In fact though, large dogs like these are more content around humans than small dogs. T

You can not condone Mass Genocide of a breed of dog. Hitler tried that once with people, im sure he had his reasons. Maybe he was savaged by some Jews growing up in Austria... who knows.

I can accept animals acting in such ways, but pets? With owners who have no control over them? Please get a grip!
I didnt suggest mass genocide in any way, I suggested let the current breed go extinct, a very big difference.
Hitler is a whole other story.

javaboy

patrick2007 wrote: »

I think we all know what a pittbull looks like.
I know my 2 collies wouldnt savage any other dog.

You might recognise the general pit bull look but the breeds vary wildly behaviour wise. Some of them are among the best trained dogs in the world.

I'm not buying into any "hype", I'm a very levelled headed individual, and I seriously do not think that type of incident has never happened before with this type of dog.

No you're right it has happened before with pitbulls but it's also happened with various other breeds. I would expect the vast majority of human bites come from typical small terrier pets. It just doesn't make good copy. And yes I know there's a huge difference between a bite and a dog savaging a child/dog but you can't deny that the newspapers hype these things up to no end. The vast vast majority of pit bulls are well trained and well behaved because they have good owners.

Yes I am blaming the breed, it was meant to be a pet, pets dont have those type of tendancies. The owner was standing looking on with no control over the dog.

Looks like the owner is at fault to me. I know dogs are sentient so you can't quite use the "guns don't kill people, people kill people" argument but there is some truth in it. Bad owners make for bad dogs regardless of breed. Bad owners with a dog with the potential a GSD/Rottweiler/Pit Bull is a recipe for disaster.

It was in a front garden, the walls didnt look that high, not sure how secure the gates were.

Again the owner is at fault here. Front garden with not very high walls and probably not a proper locked gate.

I can accept animals acting in such ways, but pets? With owners who have no control over them? Please get a grip!

These dogs can be trained to behave though. There is probably a strong case for regulating ownership.

Killme00

Whereabouts in Dublin?

Did you call the guards to report the owner OR THE DOG?

patrick2007

javaboy wrote: »

You might recognise the general pit bull look but the breeds vary wildly behaviour wise. Some of them are among the best trained dogs in the world.



No you're right it has happened before with pitbulls but it's also happened with various other breeds. I would expect the vast majority of human bites come from typical small terrier pets. It just doesn't make good copy. And yes I know there's a huge difference between a bite and a dog savaging a child/dog but you can't deny that the newspapers hype these things up to no end. The vast vast majority of pit bulls are well trained and well behaved because they have good owners.



Looks like the owner is at fault to me. I know dogs are sentient so you can't quite use the "guns don't kill people, people kill people" argument but there is some truth in it. Bad owners make for bad dogs regardless of breed. Bad owners with a dog with the potential a GSD/Rottweiler/Pit Bull is a recipe for disaster.



Again the owner is at fault here. Front garden with not very high walls and probably not a proper locked gate.



These dogs can be trained to behave though. There is probably a strong case for regulating ownership.

I'm no expert but in my opinion they would look quite similar and agree temprements may vary but whether you like it or not people will form opinions on how they look first.

I havent read anything lately in the papers about this kind of incident, I form my own opinions and having first hand experience and hopefully the last my opinion is set in stone now(again this might upset some readers)

Well as you mentioned guns there has been a lot of press lately about handguns being used to kill innocent people and what does the minister for justice intend to do about it? Ban all (well I dont think anybody knows for deffo) handguns or he will impose very stringent giudelines for licencing such items. I read some of his statements and one reason was "public safety". I dont want to cause an argument with the guys who have licenced handguns I'm only using the whole "public safety" thing as an example that the same logic could be used, from what I seen today if some 15 y/o had a pittbull and set him on you (if he was trained in such a manner it would be as good as having a handgun of sorts)

Killme00 wrote: »

Whereabouts in Dublin?

Did you call the guards to report the owner?

Northside.
I believe the owner of the pup called the Gardai.

This is my opinion and I'm entitled to it as you are to yours. Just to state again I am a dog lover and not buying into any "hype", I have 2 collies and the last thing I would like to see is any animal being abused in any form.

Killme00

patrick2007 wrote: »

This is my opinion and I'm entitled to it as you are to yours. Just to state again I am a dog lover and not buying into any "hype", I have 2 collies and the last thing I would like to see is any animal being abused in any form.

Of course you are entitled to it. But you are also entitled to be open to reasoned debate and willing to change your mind. You said on more than one ocassion that you are a dog lover but have also said that you would like to see importing and breeding of said breed outlawed and let the dog breed die out forever. That just doesnt make sense to me.

I wouldnt support the culling or banning of any breed but i would support strong legislation to enforce responsibile ownership regardless of breed.

Two questions: What will or should happen to this dog now?

What will or should happen to the dogs owner now?

Killme00

patrick2007 wrote: »

from what I seen today if some 15 y/o had a pittbull and set him on you (if he was trained in such a manner it would be as good as having a handgun of sorts)

This is nonsense. Comparing a dog to a handgun in the hands of a fifteen year old...well its not comparable

bigpinkelephant

patrick2007 wrote: »

I can accept animals acting in such ways, but pets?

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you aware that pets *are* animals?

Dogs are animals, did you know that?

And as for

patrick2007 wrote: »

Yes I am blaming the breed, it was meant to be a pet, pets dont have those type of tendancies.

What sort of tendencies would these be? Tendencies towards attacking other animals? Believe it or not, that's called instinct and unfortunately even pets have them.

My cat was killed by a collie. By your logic, this means your collies should be put down. You saw one pit bull kill a puppy and you think this means all pit bulls should be put down. Well my cat is dead because of a collie. I'm sure you'll be having your two put to sleep straightaway then yeah?

Doggymad

it is very sad that another dog lost his life in such a tragic way '
but why dont the people in charge make an example of the OWNER this time ..... and do a full investigation into exactly what type of breed it was that done this and wether it was neutered/spayed ' a family pet ' or a dog just locked in a garden 24 7... why not get all stray dogs of the street then the 1 year old pup wouldnt have been there either ..

patrick2007

Killme00 wrote: »

Of course you are entitled to it. But you are also entitled to be open to reasoned debate and willing to change your mind. You said on more than one ocassion that you are a dog lover but have also said that you would like to see importing and breeding of said breed outlawed and let the dog breed die out forever. That just doesnt make sense to me.

I wouldnt support the culling or banning of any breed but i would support strong legislation to enforce responsibile ownership regardless of breed.

Two questions: What will or should happen to this dog now?

What will or should happen to the dogs owner now?

I'm sorry Killme00 but as I stated earlier my mind if definately made up. Have you ever witnessed a pittbull of what type savage and kill another dog? This also opens up more questions regarding the owners of the dogs, regulation etc. That was why I posted here.
I never mentioned culling any animal.
Two questions I would like to know the answer to also, thats why I posted.

Killme00 wrote: »

This is nonsense. Comparing a dog to a handgun in the hands of a fifteen year old...well its not comparable

I'm comparing the lethality of a handgun attack to a pittbull attack, dont start to play down the verocity of such a pittbull attack.

bigpinkelephant wrote: »

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you aware that pets *are* animals?

Dogs are animals, did you know that?

And as for



What sort of tendencies would these be? Tendencies towards attacking other animals? Believe it or not, that's called instinct and unfortunately even pets have them.

My cat was killed by a collie. By your logic, this means your collies should be put down. You saw one pit bull kill a puppy and you think this means all pit bulls should be put down. Well my cat is dead because of a collie. I'm sure you'll be having your two put to sleep straightaway then yeah?

Quite aware pets are animals, but tame animals, this pittbull was anything but tame.

Yes in my opinion that pittbull should be humainly put down, it obviously has an extremely agressive nature. I never mentioned "all pittbulls be put down"
As for you cat I am really sorry that incident happened, if one of my collie's attacked and killed another animal I would have him put to sleep. I would also question my ability to be a dog owner, what I mean is why couldnt I control my dog if it ever attacked another animal (touch wood)

cos!!

this thread is getting me really annoyed!!and im sure many other people are too!im not going to start to argue because it happens way too often on these type of threads and im not going to be dragged in!so close please??

Killme00

patrick2007 wrote: »

Have you ever witnessed a pittbull of what type savage and kill another dog?

No but i have witnessed PBT's and SBT's around owners and children and i have never seen them be vicious. To be honest, the best person to comment would be the lady from EGAR. She spends alot of time around dogs in general and bull breeds in particular and would have more experience than any of us.

patrick2007 wrote: »

I'm comparing the lethality of a handgun attack to a pittbull attack, dont start to play down the verocity of such a pittbull attack.)

I think you are playing it up by comparing it to being shot.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Let me see, where are we...

Comparing a Pitbull to a gun, not original.

One dog attacking another, hardly unique to the bullies.

Mmmm, oh yea. Lets kill or make ownership of Bullies illegal - Yawnnnn.

We haven't touched on the lock jaw myth yet :rolleyes:

Someone mentioned EGAR, I think I remembered her posting about a particularly savage attack on her by a PITBULL Collie!!.

OP, you might ordinarily be a level headed individual but at the moment you sound like someone in shock after witnessing a particularly unpleasent dog fight.

As regards the type of dog, I own two bullies - one is a pure breed Staffordshire Bull Terrier and one is in dispute, and this is coming from someone who know's their breeds.. most people say my older lad is a Pitbull, I can't say for sure if he is or not. So I very much doubt you'd be confident in identifying a Pitbull.

smelltheglove

I always had a fear of pit bulls really, any type, even boxers made me nervous and I think it really is because of their strength. Some pit bull type dogs you can see huge muscles and you know they could do damage if they want to yet I have never seen one hurt anyone.

I'm sure it was a horrific experience, I think the dog should be assessed to see if it is a danger to the public and the owner also questioned, ok it may have been some random teenager letting the dog out for a laugh or it could have been irresponsible.

I was bitten once and to echo what was said before, I was bitten by a terrier, a jack russell and I have come acroos many a rottweiler or doberman in my time also.

ISDW

I'm really sorry that you had to witness the death of this pup, it must have been a horrific experience.

Unfortunately, a lot of dogs are capable of killing a young pup, or a cat. A feral cat came into my back yard around this time last year, and one of my dogs killed it. He lives with my cats quite happily, but this was an intruder and he did what comes naturally.

Cats are pets as well, yet they regularly kill mice, birds etc, its nature.

Yes, I totally agree that this dog should not have been able to do this, so maybe this time the owner who didn't have the dog under control, which is against the law, will be punished, and not an entire breed.

Again, I'm really sorry that you had to witness this, and that the poor pup had to go through it.

EGAR

Two years ago I rehomed a lovely 4 months old Pit Bull pup called Jackson to a great home in Sligo. They took him to trainings classes in a park. Two hours later they rang me in tears. Jackson had been killed in a dog attack by two black Labradors. They tried their best to save him but the Labs were fast and stronger. No one ever got charged and these dogs are still *at large*.

I got mauled by a yellow Labrador which landed me in hospital.

Three Greyhounds killed a collie belonging to a friend of mine.

A Great Dane killed a Labrador in the village near me.

I've had Pit Bull for nearly 25 years, I have lots of other dogs in rescue, not just Pit Bulls and never ever had a problem with a Pit Bull attacking.

As to the *we all know what Pit Bulls look like* - ahem, no, *we* don't which is why experts in the UK have to go to Breed ID courses. My own vets ask me for the breed of the Bull Breed when I bring it in.

AmBull, AmStaff, Staffie X, EBT, SBT, PC etc the list of breeds which are mistaken for APBT is endless.

OP is ignorant and uninformed and VERY VERY anthropomorphic.

cotton

Op, I'm so sorry you had to witness something so horrific. You must be sick to the pit of your stomach. I would be beside myself if I saw something like that. The poor, poor wee pup.
But, how do you know it was a pitbull? There is a site somewhere (I'm sure someone can find it) where you guess which dog is a pitbull. Not many get it right. I still get confused & I've met a good few.
The point I'm making is it could have been any breed that has done this. Please don't outlaw a breed you've misread about & that might look somewhat like the dog you saw killing that pup.

On a side note, mine live happily with cats too & will bark at passers by but would never, ever kill a cat. I don't finding a dog killing a cat natural as it was deemed an intruder by someone. Mabey I'm a bit soft as I rescue cats & have 4 ferals here tonight. I think their life is just as valuable as any domestic cat. My dogs know it too.

bigpinkelephant

patrick2007 wrote: »

Quite aware pets are animals, but tame animals, this pittbull was anything but tame.

Tame animals have the same instincts as wild ones. otherwise they wouldn't breed, hunt, etc.

ISDW

cotton wrote: »

On a side note, mine live happily with cats too & will bark at passers by but would never, ever kill a cat. I don't finding a dog killing a cat natural as it was deemed an intruder by someone. Mabey I'm a bit soft as I rescue cats & have 4 ferals here tonight. I think their life is just as valuable as any domestic cat. My dogs know it too.

I didn't say that I was pleased that my dog had killed the cat, I often put food down outside for our local feral population and yes, I value their lives just as much as my own domesticated cats. I am also soft when it comes to cats, I have 4 rescues of my own, but he is a husky and they have a high prey drive. A strange furry thing landed on his patch, and to him I guess it was as much prey as a squirrel or similar animal would be, so it is totally natural.

bigpinkelephant

ISDW wrote: »

I didn't say that I was pleased that my dog had killed the cat, I often put food down outside for our local feral population and yes, I value their lives just as much as my own domesticated cats. I am also soft when it comes to cats, I have 4 rescues of my own, but he is a husky and they have a high prey drive. A strange furry thing landed on his patch, and to him I guess it was as much prey as a squirrel or similar animal would be, so it is totally natural.

My cat was in our garden when it happened. My parents were only feet away from her.
Dog ran in, grabbed her and shook her. He dislocated her leg from its socket and fractured it in a number of places, despite strong antibiotics, multiple vet checkups and specialist surgery she died from her injuries- she developed septicaemia (blood poisoning).
Stupid irresponsible dog owners letting their dogs run around all over the place.

cotton

bigpinkelephant wrote: »

My cat was in our garden when it happened. My parents were only feet away from her.
Dog ran in, grabbed her and shook her. He dislocated her leg from its socket and fractured it in a number of places, despite strong antibiotics, multiple vet checkups and specialist surgery she died from her injuries- she developed septicaemia (blood poisoning).
Stupid irresponsible dog owners letting their dogs run around all over the place.

That's terrible, you must have been devastated.
When my cats were allowed out for an hour a day, the same thing happened to my Tilly. She saw a collie, ran up to it to say hello & he broke her back & killed her.
ISDW, you can't use a breed & type to excuse what your dog did. Did that cat feel any less pain than if it was one of your own or one that you sometimes feed? If that was a pitbull with the same prey drive, would it be less/more acceptable?
I've 2 doberman X's here, notorious breed for not getting along with cats. One sleeps with them, had a high prey drive but learnt that the cats know better. The other just couldn't be arsed sleeping with them when there is a big cat free couch downstairs. They didn't start that way, we didn't teach them, they worked it out on their own.

EGAR

Oh, and whilst we are on the subject: the only person ever to be killed by dogs was a little girl who was killed by dogs belonging to her father in the early 1980's in Cork. I bet not one of you could guess the breed of the dogs involved. They are NOT on the restricted breeds list.

And, you don't see me lobbying to ban Labradors, do you? I am scarred for life yet, if you look at my website, one of the dogs in rescu at present is a...



yellow Lab .

bigpinkelephant

cotton wrote: »

That's terrible, you must have been devastated.

I couldn't even begin to say how devastated I was, I'd had her 11 years and I have been through a lot of crap in my life and she was always there, never faltered.

It happened 3 1/2 years ago and I would still cry now thinking about it. My poor mother witnessed the whole thing and my dad had to pull the cat from the dog's mouth.

Little did any of us know that the cat lying out in the sun that day would cost her her life.

The owner showed no remorse whatsoever and said he never let the dog roam on its own. The following week, the dog was back, this time we caught it and told the owner that the next time it happened the dog would be shot.

arybvtcw0eolkf

bigpinkelephant wrote: »

The following week, the dog was back, this time we caught it and told the owner that the next time it happened the dog would be shot.

For the actions, or lack of, by the owner you were prepared to shoot a dog?.

Bravo :rolleyes:

Whispered

Mairt wrote: »

For the actions, or lack of, by the owner you were prepared to shoot a dog?.

Bravo :rolleyes:

Or maybe just scare the owner into keeping the dog in.

EDIT: If proof was ever needed to blame the owners, not the dog http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=8753165

So sad.

TKD SC

My 2 cent would be:

I think to witness and be involved in such a horrible act is terrible, and to think of the poor little puppy. It's just so sad.

I would also blame the owner and what way he brought up the dog.

While this is terrible, I couldn't condone any breed specific actions. From my experience, I've come across many many sbt's, sbt x's and about 2 pbt's, and each one was extremely friendly, loving type dog that just wanted to be cuddled. I would have been a bit wary of sbt type dogs in the past, but having come across so many now in the volunteeting I do, they are now one of my favourite dogs, and definetely one of the friendliest breeds.

The only time I was ever bitten was by a little Jack Russell Terrier!

It's very unfortunate this incident happened, and my sympathies are with the owner of the puppy.

However, it's not all black and white re pit bulls. The two I have come across were as friendly as the staffies, and were more likely to lick you to death than anything else!

Noopti

Lets ban a dog breed because it is strong, and thus, in the wrong peoples hands can cause injury/death.

Lets ban any car that can travel over 40kmph, as in the wrong peoples hands can cause injury/death.

Lets cut off peoples hands, because closed they become fists and with the wrong people can cause injury/death.

Hold on a second, there is one only common demoniator in all the above farsical statements....PEOPLE. It is people who are to blame when in "control" of something and it causes problems.

So, saying that a breed should be banned is reactionary nonsense. Breeds should be regulated properly.
How about a special license for certain breeds, where the owner would have to attend tailored ownership lessons carried out by licensed trainers. When the owner passes these lessons, they are deemed worthy to own one of these great dogs.