Should Tax payers money bail out Anglo Irish Bank?

badinfleunce

I am very annoyed about the fact that Anglo Irish Bank -
The bank that says yes to crooked developers, the bank that took unprecidented risks during the boom times, the bank that had very limp lending criteria, the bank that didnt really analyse its business and THE BANK THAT GIVES ITS DIRECTORS 80 MILLION euro loans - continues to be gauranteed by us the Tax payer. NO NO NO. Enough is enough. This is just going too far this time. Isnt it time our elected Government took some real decisive action and either take control of the bank or let it collapse?

Biggins

Well the problem lies within your last question... "Isnt it time our elected Government took some real decisive action and either take control of the bank or let it collapse?"

"some real decisive action" means they would have to do something and do it right and lately (and for some time), that would be a first!

Should we bailout every business that is going to fail? No!
These particular muppets broke their our legal finance and audit rules and their own internal rules.
Would you reward the thief that stole your pension money and pay his ESB bill for him 'cos he can't afford it due to being caught!

Nope, they made their own situation and mess, good riddance and let the rest learn from the lesson!

Darragh29

This government couldn't organise a vibrator throwing competition outside an Ann Summers shop. Whatever course of action they take, you will be sure they will make a b*lls of it...

galwayrush

It dosen't matter what we think, the idiots in goverment will do what they like with our tax money, eg.
Saving young girls from potential cancer in later life = bad
Awarding instutitions / people who mess up = good

Biggins

galwayrush wrote: »

It dosen't matter what we think, the idiots in goverment will do what they like with our tax money, eg.
Saving young girls from potential cancer in later life = bad
Awarding instutitions / people who mess up = good

+ 1

The twisted mentality of our present government! Go figure. :rolleyes:

Mark200

Well I don't think bailing out a bank is the same as bailing out other businesses. Banks are vital to any economy because they control peoples money.

The government are guaranteeing any deposits in a bank for two years, which is the right thing to do. And normally I might support the "bailing out" of a bank if they have simply fallen victim to extraordinary economic circumstances, but these guys don't deserve a cent.

galwayrush

Mark200 wrote: »

Well I don't think bailing out a bank is the same as bailing out other businesses. Banks are vital to any economy because they control peoples money.

The government are guaranteeing any deposits in a bank for two years, which is the right thing to do. And normally I might support the "bailing out" of a bank if they have simply fallen victim to extraordinary economic circumstances, but these guys don't deserve a cent.

Will the Goverment have the balls to punish / strike off / bring criminal charges / sack without golden handshakes and massive pensions/ the people who ran the banks in such a reckless manner?:rolleyes: I doubt it.

su_dios

badinfleunce wrote: »

Isnt it time our elected Government took some real decisive action and either take control of the bank or let it collapse?

While I agree Anglo need to face the consequences for their actions..why should those with their money in the bank suffer further? This bailout isn't necessarily for the banks interest its to protect the general public(hopefully)!

Phototoxin

people survived before banks, we will survive after them. If the banks cock up then they diserve to be punished and fail, its the way of business. By bailing them out they are only reinforcing the fat that the uber rich at the tope of the economic institutions are untouchable.

Karoma

I'm glad we're all agreed. Now, to the important question: Should tax payers' money go to organising a vibrator throwing competition outside Ann Summers shops? Wouldn't this encourage a company of ill-repute, that in turn, encourages balls-ups and ****?

BravoSierra

Phototoxin wrote: »

people survived before banks, we will survive after them. If the banks cock up then they diserve to be punished and fail, its the way of business. By bailing them out they are only reinforcing the fat that the uber rich at the tope of the economic institutions are untouchable.

I think the banks will survive long after us rather.

If I had my way we would get organized and form a hysterical mass revolt and destroy several political and financial institutions.

I'm beginning to think alot of people will feel that way by mid 2009.

Biggins

su_dios wrote: »

While I agree Anglo need to face the consequences for their actions..why should those with their money in the bank suffer further? This bailout isn't necessarily for the banks interest its to protect the general public(hopefully)!

The depositors money is safe as per the government backing. Should the bank and subsequently, the board of director jobs and asses be saved?

Nope, nada, no way amigo. Hell should freeze over quicker!

Mark200

Karoma wrote: »

I'm glad we're all agreed. Now, to the important question: Should tax payers' money go to organising a vibrator throwing competition outside Ann Summers shops? Wouldn't this encourage a company of ill-repute, that in turn, encourages balls-ups and ****?

If the government can sell the TV rights to it

AlmightyCushion

Biggins wrote: »

The depositors money is safe as per the government backing. Should the bank and subsequently, the board of director jobs and asses be saved?

Nope, nada, no way amigo. Hell should freeze over quicker!

If the bank were to go under, the cost of guaranteeing peoples deposits and the effect of this to the economy would be massive. I imagine bailing the bank out is the lesser of two evils.

stepbar

BravoSierra wrote: »

I think the banks will survive long after us rather.

If I had my way we would get organized and form a hysterical mass revolt and destroy several political and financial institutions.

I'm beginning to think alot of people will feel that way by mid 2009.

All hail the Anarchists!!! :rolleyes:

Fizman

Was out in Dub last night with a friend of mine who works in Anglo. He said that Fitzpatrick actually has more than €87m in loans, and that figure will come about soon enough.

therewillbe

Greed,Greed & more Greed, Let them go down and Jail "Them all "!
The average saver/shareholder is screwed because of total GREED by the top Brass .Sorry mr Joe Soap, but lessons have to be learned.:mad:

Donald-Duck

galwayrush wrote: »

It dosen't matter what we think, the idiots in goverment will do what they like with our tax money, eg.
Saving young girls from potential cancer in later life = bad
Awarding instutitions / people who mess up = good

Its actually a case of saving money, you don't remember what they decided a few months ago about peoples money in the banks?

galwayrush

Many small companies / traders are going under because of the way the banks are now treating them, from a banks point of view, it's tough luck, i think it should be the same for them, now that they are feeling the pinch, Feck them, why should they get bailed out for their mistakes when they are so ruthless dealing with their own customers.

The Mighty Ken

galwayrush wrote: »

Many small companies / traders are going under because of the way the banks are now treating them

Small, tax-paying businesses go under because banks refuse to give them credit.

Banks don't go under because tax payers (including small businesses) bail them out.

Makes sense.

Mr. Presentable

Phototoxin wrote: »

people survived before banks, we will survive after them. If the banks cock up then they diserve to be punished and fail, its the way of business. By bailing them out they are only reinforcing the fat that the uber rich at the tope of the economic institutions are untouchable.

Hmmmm. So, when do you think banking came into existece?

juuge

These are the guys that minister lenihan 'wined and dined' up in farmleigh house, and we paid for that too.

311

Posting without sync of the last post ,what gets me about anglo irish is that they seem to have thought they would hide behind the bail out.

Only for the bail out took so long to write up ,would we have ever found out about this ?

K-9

I would be largely supportive of the general idea for banks, we can't let the banks go under.

After hearing about the loans scandal and the way the Anglo Irish is so exposed to property, I think a merger with the management being sacked would have been better.

Still, to all intents and purposes it is now Nationalised, so not too bad!

jimmycrackcorm

I wish my bank would go under then I wouldn't have to pay back my mortgage or credit cards.

K-9

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I wish my bank would go under then I wouldn't have to pay back my mortgage or credit cards.

Incorrect, you pay to whoever takes them over.

The_Minister

Biggins wrote: »

The depositors money is safe as per the government backing. Should the bank and subsequently, the board of director jobs and asses be saved?

Nope, nada, no way amigo. Hell should freeze over quicker!

:rolleyes: You realise that if the government had to make good on those deposits, then you could kiss pretty much all public services goodbye?

This is one of the things that I hate about After Hours.
Everyone comes in here and goes nuts and rants, about how **** a job the government are doing (and if it was the other lot in, it would just be a different lot of ye complaining), when their own ideas for solving it are ill-thought out, inefficient, and retarded.

So many of the people here (I'm not picking on Biggins) never actually think about their ideas, they just rant and spew rubbish, and never consider the consequences.

There are times I read AH, and I realise that I know how Hitler got elected.

The_Minister

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I wish my bank would go under then I wouldn't have to pay back my mortgage or credit cards.

Actually, you would probably end up paying more.

Alot more.

sdanseo

The way public money is spent (in terms of who it can go to) should be mandated by the constitution and not the yearly finance bill. Vast majority of people (here at least) dont want moeny thrown away like this yet they can still do it.

Only problem there of course is that we'd have 17 referendums in a two-month interval to get us to let them do it anyway.

Pisstake tbh.

RoMiLe

badinfleunce wrote: »

Isnt it time our elected Government took some real decisive action and either take control of the bank or let it collapse?

You really think the government matters? Where do you think the government get's it's money from?

The banks control everything, even the government. Anyone who is employed and uses a bank essentially works for that bank.

And I don't see why you're so shocked about AIB being corrupt. Every bank in history was corrupt. The monetary system fuels corruption.

badinfleunce

RoMiLe wrote: »

You really think the government matters? Where do you think the government get's it's money from?

The banks control everything, even the government. Anyone who is employed and uses a bank essentially works for that bank.

And I don't see why you're so shocked about AIB being corrupt. Every bank in history was corrupt. The monetary system fuels corruption.

The banks dont control everything. If this was the case they wouldnt be in such dire straits. The people control everything in a democracy and dont forget it. I can choose tommorow along with the rest of the country to remove my savings from Anglo Irish Bank. This would be out of their control and would put a run on the bank. People in this country stopped buying property hence the property market crash and the ill sightedness of Anglo Irish Bank to invest heavily in property has lead to their demise. Banks maybe corrupt but when that is brought to the forefront in todays society this only means a total lack of Trust and Confidence which in turn must lead to a change in order for its survival.

I see your point that we all work for the bank directly or indirectly - but for the saver who deposits in the bank and the corrupt bank manager who borrows that money for his own personal ill gotten gains - in this day and age this is not acceptable so severe action must be taken to ensure your money is in safe trusted hands in the future.

Personally, all of the Anglo directors involved in this should have all their bank accounts and assets frozen and under company law they should be banned from ever sitting on a board or acting as a director in the future. They should also be removed from their posts and banned from entering the buildings or logging into their system in Anglo and an interim management body should be put in place until this mess is sorted out.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

Phototoxin wrote: »

people survived before banks, we will survive after them. If the banks cock up then they diserve to be punished and fail, its the way of business. By bailing them out they are only reinforcing the fat that the uber rich at the tope of the economic institutions are untouchable.

badinfleunce

stepbar

badinfleunce wrote: »

The banks dont control everything. If this was the case they wouldnt be in such dire straits. The people control everything in a democracy and dont forget it. I can choose tommorow along with the rest of the country to remove my savings from Anglo Irish Bank. This would be out of their control and would put a run on the bank.

You scare me. Unfortunatly there are many who think like you which also scares me.

People in this country stopped buying property hence the property market crash and the ill sightedness of Anglo Irish Bank to invest heavily in property has lead to their demise. Banks maybe corrupt but when that is brought to the forefront in todays society this only means a total lack of Trust and Confidence which in turn must lead to a change in order for its survival.

I see your point that we all work for the bank directly or indirectly - but for the saver who deposits in the bank and the corrupt bank manager who borrows that money for his own personal ill gotten gains LOL :rolleyes:

- in this day and age this is not acceptable so severe action must be taken to ensure your money is in safe trusted hands in the future.

Personally, all of the Anglo directors involved in this should have all their bank accounts and assets frozen and under company law they should be banned from ever sitting on a board or acting as a director in the future. They should also be removed from their posts and banned from entering the buildings or logging into their system in Anglo and an interim management body should be put in place until this mess is sorted out.

Go for it. Give me a few reasons why. Remember to use logic.

Good god you've a lot of anger there. Let it out.

Question - What about the people who borrowed the money in question. What do you think of them?

Regulator79

Anglo Irish bank is of no systemic importance to the Irish financial system. It is, however, of systemic importance to the future of Fianna Fail. Anglo Irish bank was merely the banker for those chose to bet on the Irish property bubble. They include a small coterie of land owners and property developers who are heavily into the soldiers of destiny. It is also my suspicion that FFs interest is not just to protect their buddies but that there is a stinking corpse of a scandal at the centre of this that has yet to be aired.

Nationalising them makes no economic sense. End of story. Don’t believe me? Look at the share price. That tells you all you need to know. FF have sold the country down the river once again.

Oh and for those who you who are complaining, they didn’t vote themselves in you know

thebman

The_Minister wrote: »

:rolleyes: You realise that if the government had to make good on those deposits, then you could kiss pretty much all public services goodbye?

Well since we didn't know about their massive loans or just how mismanaged they were then I think you could argue that the government entered into the contract under false terms.

We were lead to believe the bank was in a better condition than it was and should just walk away. We should also demand that other banks reveal any such information if they wish to stay in the government guarantee scheme.

The directors of the bank should be brought up on relevant charges. Given the circumstances, treason might not be out of the question since they have almost sunk the country with their reckless behaviour.

ejmaztec

Regulator79 wrote: »

Oh and for those who you who are complaining, they didn’t vote themselves in you know

I wouldn't put that past them either. They probably shred the real slips.