Who would be in the wrong?

Vikings

After a close encounter earlier this evening im just wondering who was actually in the wrong in this situation - I tried to draw it up in paint but i'll explain a little as well.

The entrance on the left leads to a car park on a main street (celbridge, xtravision) - Car A parked right beside the entrance.

Car B stopped opposite side of road indicating to go into car park waiting for a gap in traffic.

Car A indicating right to get back into traffic.

Car C then decides to stop towards to back of Car A and then flashes his lights.

Both Car A and Car B think this is signaling them to go and both pull off - almost taking the front wings off one another.

Both pulled off simultaneously and almost met outside of the yellow box in front of the car park entrance, on the left side of the road.

Now, if there had of been an accident who would have been the culprit? My immediate thought was Car A but the more I think about it the more uncertain I get and at best i'm now thinking both are equally at fault..

Any opinions?

tech77

Vikings wrote: »

After a close encounter earlier this evening im just wondering who was actually in the wrong in this situation - I tried to draw it up in paint but i'll explain a little as well.

The entrance on the left leads to a car park on a main street (celbridge, xtravision) - Car A parked right beside the entrance.

Car B stopped opposite side of road indicating to go into car park waiting for a gap in traffic.

Car A indicating right to get back into traffic.

Car C then decides to stop towards to back of Car A and then flashes his lights.

Both Car A and Car B think this is signaling them to go and both pull off - almost taking the front wings off one another.

Both pulled off simultaneously and almost met outside of the yellow box in front of the car park entrance, on the left side of the road.

Now, if there had of been an accident who would have been the culprit? My immediate thought was Car A but the more I think about it the more uncertain I get and at best i'm now thinking both are equally at fault..

Any opinions?

Not sure tbh.
But isn't the scenario essentially the same whether a car C is present or not.
The prompt from car C is just a facilitator for car B or car A's movement (possibly similar to the scenario where it just wasn't there and A and B only had to deal with each other).

Doesn't it really come down to who has priority:
a) A car moving off into traffic or
b) A car turning right against it.
TBH i dunno.

JackFrosty

Tough call, im thinking car A as he is just pulling into traffic,

Car B has to pull across oncoming traffic, and so has to give way.
Both drivers should of seen each other!

Car c should of seen the problem flashing his lights would cause , and should of kept going without flashing or beckoning to either car!

JackFrosty

I meant to say car B is wrong

L-M

I thought you weren't supposed to pay heed etc. to someone flashing there lights?

I remember seeing on Road wars or the likes that when they put on their sirens, the front lights flash as well. Someone in a Punto thought they were flashing them, and pulled out infront of them.

I could of sworn they said something about not paying any heed to people flashing lights.

guil

i'd say car b would be in the wrong

JackFrosty

Thing is when some one flashes, (their lights) we all look! It cant be helped we just do!!

L-M

JackFrosty wrote: »

Thing is when some one flashes,we all look! It cant be helped we just do!!

:P

cyclopath2001

JackFrosty wrote: »

Thing is when some one flashes, (their lights) we all look! It cant be helped we just do!!

In some countries, flashing the lights means "I am letting you out" and in others it means "stay out of my way, I'm coming through".

tricky D

A is in the wrong.

ROTR say 'When moving off from the kerb you must give way to other traffic and pedestrians' pg41

In Ireland flashing lights mean nothing legally.

1979Bob

A is in the wrong but C also has some responsibilty for flashng his lights.

Dublinstiofán

C is at fault your not supposed to flash your lights to indicate to another driver to perform a maneuver EVER. We just have a bad habbit of it here.
Cant go down to the shops without somebody flashing at ya here. I know sometimes its handy and can be curtious of drivers but ive seen it end in a smash up on a few occasions.

In America they fine you if your caught doing it as it can mean too many things and causes bad accidents.And hence i didn't see one driver doing it in America in the few months i was there.

I might be wrong but i think:
Car C shouldn't have stopped to let either car A pull out nor car B pull across. Car C should have progressed on the road provided they had a suitable space on the road to do so (as it appears in the diagram). When A had a suitable gap in the traffic behind them they should have indicated and pulled out.
Then finally when both car A and C were gone car be should wait for a gap to cross over.

Wouldn't like to be the guard that has to call it when it happens which im sure is a lot here.

Graham_B18C

When I was doing lessons before my test, the instructor said never flash people or wave them on because it makes you responsible if anything goes wrong. Don't know if it'd stand up in court now but thats what he told me!

Still do it myself though!

Del2005

Grahamo999 wrote: »

When I was doing lessons before my test, the instructor said never flash people or wave them on because it makes you responsible if anything goes wrong. Don't know if it'd stand up in court now but thats what he told me!

Still do it myself though!

It does, my brother got money off a person who called out a car. Called out car T boned my brother and both had to pay. When you flash or wave a car out you are responsible for their actions, even though they should still do full checks, if they don't and they crash you are partially to blame.

I was told too just make eye contact with the person you're letting out, give then a few seconds and if the don't move just go on your way.

irisheddie85

in your picture car A is parked illegally as its too close to a turn so is not good, C shouldnt have flashed but probably didnt even know A was there, B shouldnt have gone on someone flashing him. if a crash had happened Guard probably would have said everyone shares blame pay your own damage unless injuries then s**t street for everyone

OldmanMondeo

Car A is in a perfectly good marked parking spot, I know the area. I would say car B, it would be up to them to ensure that the oppisite carraige way is clear before making his/her turn. What may have occured to "encourage car C to flash is if traffic ahead had stopped and car C did not want to block an enterance.

mumblin deaf ro

Car C should not have stopped, although if A was already edging out, C may have felt that they had no choice. C certainly should not have flashed, as other have already said.

Once C stops, I would have thought that B had priority as they are already in traffic whereas as A was still parked.

Overall though B was well-sighted and should have recognised the potential for a misunderstanding and should have waiting to see how the arrangement between A and C panned out before deciding to move.

For A and B to collide, A would have to have joined the traffic already, in which case B would have been found at fault for cutting across A's path.

A lot depends in the timing of individual components of the scenario, but whichever way you look at it, B and C bear some responsibility. 'A' could claim that they were let out by C and had right of way to make progress without stopping for B.

A real teaser though.

itarumaa

I know that place as well, and for me it looks like fault for both drivers A and B.

I dont understand how you could blame C for the crash if that car was flashing the lights.

Most likely C driver did not even notice that A wants to leave the spot.

But yeah it is tricky one, what about if in front of C there would be stopped traffic, would this change this at any way?

What if car A would be parked illigally?

I would assume that flashing the lights is like indicating, if car indicates left and you think it is going to turn, but actually goes straight and you crash with that car, well would mostly assume that indication did not matter, so it is still your fault.

But howabout the junction after the bridge, there are no traffic lights and heavy traffic that place is a nightmare. Crash in that place would be interesting for the guards to investigate.

itarumaa

mumblin deaf ro wrote: »

'A' could claim that they were let out by C and had right of way to make progress without stopping for B.

A real teaser though.

And in the court C could claim that A did not indicate, so C tought that A was a parked car.

mumblin deaf ro

OP said that 'A' was indicating to turn in to traffic though, and the fact that C stopped and flashed their lights would have suggested that they had seen A and were letting them in; the fact that C stopped would have confirmed this to A.

Vikings

tricky D wrote: »

A is in the wrong.

ROTR say 'When moving off from the kerb you must give way to other traffic and pedestrians' pg41

In Ireland flashing lights mean nothing legally.

This is as close to having the blame fall solely on just one car provided so far, im inclined to agree with it too but don't really want to as I was the driver of Car A

To clear up a couple of things, A is in a marked car spot so the legality of that is not in question ... unless you want to take it up with the council!!

Both Car A and B were indicating to make their manoeuvres.

As the driver of Car A, I had my head swung round almost hanging out the window looking backwards for a break in traffic in my direction so that I could pull out - when Car C flashed I thought great, here I go. I started to move off, gave a little wave to say thanks and then looked forward.

Now it was at this stage that I was thankful I was in herselfs clio and not my own car as I moved off slowly - the other guy in the golf was not so cautious as the wheelspin from him taking off indicated. I jammed on and came to a nice enough stop, he screeched to a halt a couple inches from my bumper thankfully!

I did think I was at fault initially, put my hand up to apologise and reversed so he could get into the car park but since then I have been in two minds as to who would be taking the insurance hit on it!

GreeBo

I think you wold split it between you, but probbaly 60:40 in Car B's favour.

C flashed and you both thought, "cool, he is letting me go!".
B was crossing the traffic so thats against him, but effectively so were you are you were not on the roadway.

However B was not travelling with due care if he squeeled into the gap and then slammed on, and this would probably count against him.

Again, a toughie!

kippy

Very tough one. Drivers been relatively courteous to each other, which in general is a good thing, ends up with a near miss.

Technically one should never flash lights nor should one make any assumptions about said flashing lights, however the reality is a lot of us flash and a lot of us do make assumptions. It's an every day occurance, which in general takes place in slow moving traffic.

First things first, I wouldn't be blaming car C. Leaving Car C out of the situation, I would be putting the majority of the blame on Car B, as it crosses a line of traffic while a vehicle is coming towards it. Timing would probably be key here but I would assume car A is already in the correct lane when the collision occurs. B shouldn't have turned unless the way was clear.
I'd hate to be involved in this one as it would no doubt be messy.
On further reflection, yes, I would defo be blaming car B.
Kippy

biko

A has right of way I think.

But...
C should pull up a bit more to block A, let B go across and then drive off letting A wait for someone else to let him out.
At least that's what I would do, I can only be nice to one other driver at the time.

timmywex

It all comes down to defensive driving re the ligts flashing, a driver should always anticipate what another drive will or could do, be it not stop at a stop sign/not indicate etc etc, therefore, if you flash your lights or similar you are trying to tell that driver how to react, which you shouldnt, by flashing, you lose control and if the other driver is hesitant you may continue, only for them to pull out and you may hit them

In this case i would reckon the costs would be paid by each individual party, and the driver of car c may get well given out to, or a fine for failure to give appropriate signals!

Turner

Sure dont both of them drive into each other. Both are at fault.

Car C flashing has got nothing to do with it, not legally. The only person who can direct traffic in a situation like this (with no wandering animals) is a garda.

So car c directed nobody anywhere. It gave a courtesy signal for both of them to sort it out and make their move.


Both at fault, insurance companies would take it 50/50.