Guitar adjustment question...anyone?

Home:Ballyhoura

Hey, I play mainly acoustic guitar but I got a cheap Cort electric to mess around with, cost around €160. Well, one day I took a look at it, and the bridge was raised up so much off the body of the guitar! I immediately released the tension on the strings and it gradually moved back into its correct position. I brought it into the shop (didn't really know or do anything) and brought it to my teacher, who tightened up the tremolo spings in the back of the guitar (I don't use the tremolo ever!). This helped a
tiny bit, but didn't fix it fully. I even use the average guage 10 strings, have ordered a set of 9's to see if it helps any bit. It is really annoying me now and I want to get something done about it. The action is also way too high for an electric (maybe as a result of this).

Has anyone got any advice on what I should do? I know my teacher adjusted the kneck on my acoustic to lower the action, how do you do this on an electric? Should I get it checked out by a professional (or is it even worth it?) or upgrade? Sorry for all the questions but any help would be great! Thanks in advance, I really appreciate it!

leninbenjamin

what do you mean by the bridge was raised up? do you mean like this?

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/3228/200620fender20v20neck20fb8.jpg

that would be pretty normal for a synchronized tremolo bridge, it's how the tremolo works. it's balancing on the knife edge of the metal plate the saddles sit on. If you want it flusher to the body, tighten the the screws that hold the springs in place at the back. If that doesn't do enough, you can normally add an extra spring or two, and then mess around with the screws til it balances where you want it (most guitars ship with 3 strings and have the space for two more).

alternatively, if you don't use the tremolo like meself (i find them really annoying as you tend to have to retune more often), you make the bridge flush against the body by putting a block of wood (wedge shaped) in the back.

as for the action; you can adjust the nut on an electric in the same way you would an accoustic.

Alanstrainor

If the bridge is like the picture in the post above then it's normal. But if it's much worse then i'd either be tightening the springs at the back until it was at an acceptable level, or adding more springs. As for the action, once the bridge has been corrected it should fix that, but if not, i'd try lowering the saddles before filing the nut.

Home:Ballyhoura

Hey, I wouldn't be the best at guitar maintenance, only been playing just over a year (and mainly acoustic at that) I would say I'll have to get it done by someone professionally, unless ye say its easy enough (to be done by a beginner). First of all, the bridge is raised up more than that (see the pictures). It was worse until my teacher tightened up the springs to the max (he even rounded off one of the two threads!) It's a painfull process to tune this as a result. Adjust one string and they are all affected, you must over tune some strings so when you tune up the final string, hopefully you have estimated correctly and it is roughly in tune! I have broken a few srings doing this, but all because the bridge is free to move with the strings, why?

Ok, if I was to give a bash myself, where would I start. Where would I put that block of wood, adjust the saddles, nut or add springs? I put up a few pictures to give ye a better idea of what I'm talking about. They are only off a camera-phone but hopefully ye can see the bridge lifting up the the very high action. Thanks again for all your help!


Sorry for the big picture, I just wanted ye to see clearly what's going on! Hehe!

Demeyes

It's just the springs, you can fix that easily yourself. Tighten the springs, then you have to retune the guitar. You'll have to keep adjusting the springs, then tuning again to get it to the correct level. With 10's I don't think you should need another spring, but if you tighten the springs all the way and it's still raised then you'll have to buy another spring and put it on, which is still someting you should be able to do easily yourself.

Johnny Storm

It looks to me (as far as I can see from the pics) that the front of the trem is a bit too high. (the front being the part nearest the neck). Are the two screws that hold the trem screwed in far enough? It seems that you can see the splines on the inserts that those two screws go into. Perhaps the insets are not pushed in far enough?
FYI your trem seems to be a Fender style trem and Fender recommend that the back of the trem be about one-eight of an inch from the face of the guitar. If don't want to use the trem you can tighten up tghe springs until the trem rests flat on the body of the guitar - but if the front of the trem is too high it wont go flat.

Dord

It looks like the studs aren't screwed into the body enough. Detune it and do this, also get another spring and put it on the trem.

Home:Ballyhoura

Dord wrote: »

It looks like the studs aren't screwed into the body enough. Detune it and do this, also get another spring and put it on the trem.

Hey, thanks for all the help guys! I really appreciate it, but I have to say much of it I don't understand! Like the stud/nut etc. Where are they. Could you please refer to the following pictures in future (I put in markings A,B,C. They probably wont help, but just incase you want to refer to a particular area!)
I'd say I'll give it a bash myself alright! Hehe (P.S. Where would I get an extra spring? Would it be a specific one for this guitar or a general tremolo spring, and roughly how much are we talking here! !

Alanstrainor

Only 2 springs at the back is what's making the bridge rise up, and like others have said i think you need to tighten the screws marked A and B on the photo looking down on the front of the guitar.

Dord

Picture 1
A & B = Studs. These should be lowered so they're closer to the body of the guitar.
C = Saddles. Leave these for the moment while you get the bridge height situation sorted.

Picture 2
A = Trem block. This is where the springs anchor onto.
B = Springs. Kinda obvious, eh? You have one too few in my opinion.
C = The screws that anchor the springs onto the body. screwing these in further increases the pull on the springs and pulls the bridge closer down to the body.
You should start with another spring or two first. Any good guitar shop should have a few lying around.

Home:Ballyhoura

Cool, I'll get those springs asap (do you need a special tool or type of spring) and after that I'll try tightening the studs. Is is it a kneck adjustment that changes the action, and how do you do it? Thanks for all your help.

I feel so happy now!! I've meant to do something about this for ages, and finally ye have basically done it for me! Ye also saved me €400 as I had my heart set on an Ibanez RG350DX if I couldn't fix it. I'll bring it into the shop where my teacher works, hopefully he'll show me what to do! Thanks again, I really appreciate all the help!

Dord

Home:Ballyhoura wrote: »

Cool, I'll get those springs asap (do you need a special tool or type of spring) and after that I'll try tightening the studs. Is is it a kneck adjustment that changes the action, and how do you do it? Thanks for all your help.

I feel so happy now!! I've meant to do something about this for ages, and finally ye have basically done it for me! Ye also saved me €400 as I had my heart set on an Ibanez RG350DX if I couldn't fix it. I'll bring it into the shop where my teacher works, hopefully he'll show me what to do! Thanks again, I really appreciate all the help!

Leave the neck alone for the moment. The main issue I see is the trem.
You don't need any special tool, but you need the right springs. Buy them in a guitar store.

It should look like this once you have the extra one put in.


The action doesn't just depend on one factor, it all works together. But the trem is out of whack at the moment so it'll throw it off.

Voodu Child

and after that I'll try tightening the studs

Those trem posts are for making quick action adjustments, they don't need to be lowered. The only way anybody could tell from a picture if they needed to be adjusted was if they were a mile out, and they're not.

-Get the extra spring on first.
-Sort the trem angle
-use the individual saddle adjustments to match the bridge radius to the neck
-Use the trem posts to make action adjustments as necessary.

Home:Ballyhoura

Just a quick question, my young sister has a half size classical guitar which gets very little use. Whenever I persuade her to play, she complains about sore fingers hurting her. I know this is normal when beginning, and after a bit of practice, it will soon go away, but this is the reason why she doesn't practice! I must admit, that the strings are awful, all brown (looks like a slight bit of rusting) and quite rough. I think if I put on a new set of "new smooth shiny" ones, she would be inspired to play!!! The only problem is I don't know how! I've never used classical guitars myself, and the way they are attatched at the bridge looks very complicated (way too many knots fer me! :P) Anyway, how do you do it, I'm sure its easy enough once you give it a go! P.S. Would you need special strings for this size guitar, like what guage or length would I need to get? Post a link cause I like to get 'em off eBay, nice and cheap! hehe Thanks again in advance for all your help, I must seem like a right pain by now!

Home:Ballyhoura

• First of all, I got a set of RotoSound classical guitar strings with ball ends, €6. They made life much easier when it came to changing them!
• Next, I got an extra tremolo spring for the electric. €2 and it seems to have solved the problem reasonably well. I have two options:
• 1. Leave the tremolo screws fully in the body and leave the tremolo rest on the body of the guitar in a fixed position or
  2. Unscrew the screws slightly so that the tremolo is parallel to the body (a bit harder to tune as the tremolo still moves a bit!).
  • Which way is the best way to have it?
• The action still seems to be a tad to high, how would I make a small adjustment to this myself?

I can't thank you enough at this stage, I'm nearly there at last!

Johnny Storm

Whoa there!
Go back and have a read of my earlier post where I said the front of the trem is too high. Judging from this pic it's WAY too high. The tremolo plate should be able to rest more-or-less completely flat on the body of your guitar. (Or at least it does on any strat-type trem I've ever seen). I suggest you screw in the two big screws at the front of the trem until the trem plate is completely flat on the body of the guitar. Asd I said if the screws wont go in enough its possible that the inserts the screws go into are not pushed far enough into the body of the guitar.

Doctor J

This man speaketh the truth.

Home:Ballyhoura

Hi, I tightened those nuts 1.5 to 2 full turns, thats as far as they go! I don't really know if they made mush of a difference, again, here are more pictures for ye to decide! Action also seems to be still a bit high (should I be able to hammer down on the strings, full whack, with no fret buzz?), what should I do for this!

Home:Ballyhoura

Home:Ballyhoura wrote: »

Hi, I tightened those nuts 1.5 to 2 full turns, thats as far as they go! I don't really know if they made mush of a difference, again, here are more pictures for ye to decide! Action also seems to be still a bit high (should I be able to hammer down on the strings, full whack, with no fret buzz?), what should I do for this!

Please note that the side of the bridge nearest the controls (i.e. the right side as you look down on it) seems to be more flush against the body than the other side. Hopefully you can see this in the last (blue looking) picture!

Here are the pictures:

Voodu Child

Home:Ballyhoura wrote: »

Please note that the side of the bridge nearest the controls (i.e. the right side as you look down on it) seems to be more flush against the body than the other side. Hopefully you can see this in the last (blue looking) picture!

Its a two-point floating trem (not a traditional strat trem), so it doesnt need to be forced tight into the body (unless you want to block the trem). Its not going to pivot properly if you do that (because the front edge of the trem plate extends past the centre of the posts) and its just going to result in bad stability and/or damage to the finish.

The ideal height of those post that you're adjusting will depend on the neck angle and fret height/quality. So just blindly screwing it as tight as you can to the body doesnt accomplish anything, you'll still need to come back and re-adjust action height using the individual saddle adjustments, which may or may not have enough movement to get you where you want. And if the saddles are too high, you're going to have a sharper string angle over the bridge, meaning more breakages.

Just adjust it so the trem plate is a little off the body (enough to allow it to float freely) and the plate should be parallel to the body (by adjusting the springs). That's just a starting point - its as 'exact' as you're going to get over the internet, the rest will depend on the particular setup of the guitar.

Johnny Storm

This side looks OK:



On the other side you can see the splines (vertical lines) on the insert that the trem post screws into. It looks as though the insert has not been pushed far enough into the body of the guitar (or possibly the hole it goes into was not drilled deeply enough):



FYI the insert looks similar to the item in the middle of this pic:

Home:Ballyhoura

voodoo_child wrote: »

you'll still need to come back and re-adjust action height using the individual saddle adjustments, which may or may not have enough movement to get you where you want. And if the saddles are too high, you're going to have a sharper string angle over the bridge, meaning more breakages.

OK, thats me finished setting up the guitar so! Do you think I will be able to make the saddle adjustments myself or is there an easier way? P.S. How long do classical guitar stings take to stretch in? I put a new set on my sisters guitar for the first time recently and they are still going way out of tune rapidly! Mainly the 3 thinnest string (clear nylon ones) but also the 3 thicker ones. They are ball-ended, so I couldn't have made a mistake there, maybe at the tuning pegs, I dont know! Hehe...thanks for all your help!