First DSLR

Piusno1

Hi guys,
ye might let me know if im doing the right thing getting a Nikon D60 for my first Digital Camera, or the Pentax K-m,( I used Pentax 35mm cameras about 12yrs ago,) so I'll be interested to hear yer comments also price is a consideration hence the D60, or K-m Cheers.

CabanSail

You have to remember that when you buy a DSLR it's not just a Camera but you are buying into a system. Do not just look at the features of the body you are buying now but also the scope for expansion, in the brand & secondary gear. This is the reason that most people tend to buy either Nikon or Canon. Both these companies have extensive support & third parties also make lots of compatible equipment to fit them.

The Nikon system is very backwards compliant. There are limitations to this but it is something that seems to be a design philosphy with them. I can still use lenses made in the 60's on my D300.

If you have Pentax gear then maybe this could be a consideration if it will be useful now. I am not sure if it is compatible but worth checking.

AnCatDubh

Ok. Declaration first - I'm in the Pentax camp but i'll try be impartial.

They make fabulous gear - absolutely great stuff. But to add balance so do Nikon, Canon, Sony, and Olympus. The popular ones are definitely Nikon and Canon.

If you have 35mm Pentax K-Mount SLR lenses still from your previous gear - they will work as happily as they did then. Oh but it was so much fun to put a manual 50mm f1.7 lens which is about 35 years old onto a K20D body and see it perform with image stabilisation. Ok, it might be anorak thinking but that was oh so cool!

There is a good review of the Pentax K-m in the current issue of one of the photo mags. It fairs good. It is entry level. I originally bought into Pentax entry level with the *ist DL which i still love. The K-m has occupied this entry space for Pentax.

One issue with Pentax is if you are a brick and mortar shopper. You don't have the same availability of local support. Nikon and Canon have that market sewn up in fairness to them.

I would only fear going with Pentax if you eventually intend to go into some real advanced pro level stuff. In their digital range the K20D is the tops at present whereas Canon and Nikon have gear at the upper range which far exceed it in specs.

The Pentax stuff tends to be a little cheaper which attracted me initially however when money wasn't so much an issue in terms of my next purchase, I went straight back to Pentax.

I don't like the trend with all manufacturers at their entry level to cut back on their 'hard' controls on the camera body. Functionality even like a top of camera body display have been hidden into the software of the device.

The K-m is a great spec for an entry level device. I don't think it will either outperform or under perform other entry levels from Canon, Nikon, Sony or Olympus.

According to the DPReview "As with the D40 and D40X, the new D60 doesn't have an built-in focus drive motor which means it can auto focus only with lenses which have their own drive motor (AF-S and AF-I lenses)." - this wont be a problem if you buy AF-S or AF-I lenses. The pentax has multiple formats with varying levels of technical feature support. Lenses which have "PENTAX K, KA, KAF, KAF2 and KAF3" designation are supported (some of these which you will be familiar with from your film days). Only older different system lenses won't work.

I would shudder to think that either would actually be 'better' in a general sense. So you are probably into external factors as to what you will want to do with it going forward and how far your photographic journey will take you.

Good luck with whatever you decide to run with.

DaireQuinlan

AnCatDubh wrote: »

If you have 35mm Pentax K-Mount SLR lenses still from your previous gear - they will work as happily as they did then. Oh but it was so much fun to put a manual 50mm f1.7 lens which is about 35 years old onto a K20D body and see it perform with image stabilisation. Ok, it might be anorak thinking but that was oh so cool!

No, that IS pretty cool :-) I think pentax are actually as good as Nikon in this regard. Though that said, I don't know much about the pentax system. The Nikon backwards compatibility matrix is laden with inconsistencies and gotchas, its always a case that you declare proudly that "Any lens since the 1960s will mount !" and then mumble "but not meter" or something similar. I remember being surprised to learn that the D40 was the first camera in yonks onto which you could safely put pre-AI F-Mount lenses. Though of course, not actually meter with them. -sigh-

Morrisseeee

Pick a camera you like and see its review here at : http://www.dpreview.com/

Personally I own an Olympus E510, I got a few different adapters for it, and I can attach different manufacturers lenses, ie. I have lenses from Pentax, Nikon & old OM Olympus lenses, these are old prime lenses that you can pick up on eBay for €20 to €100. The good thing about certain entry-level cameras is that they have image-stabilization built in to the camera, Olympus & Pentax spring to mind. Some also have Live-view (similar to point-n-shoot cameras, but not as quick). The Olympus also has a sensor that is half the size of a Full-frame sensor, but this means you have double the lens zoom (angle of view) at 10 mega-pixel or whatever, eg. a 50mm lens on an Olympus is similar to having a 100mm on a full-frame sensor.

DaireQuinlan

Morrisseeee wrote: »

The Olympus also has a sensor that is half the size of a Full-frame sensor, but this means you have double the lens zoom (angle of view) at 10 mega-pixel or whatever, eg. a 50mm lens on an Olympus is similar to having a 100mm on a full-frame sensor.

Although in fairness, while this is good for the reason above, its a disadvantage in practically every other respect I can think of including lack of availability of wides, potentially more sensor noise, smaller viewfinder etc etc

Morrisseeee

True, but as an entry-level camera, its not that big-a-deal.

duffarama

DaireQuinlan wrote: »

Although in fairness, while this is good for the reason above, its a disadvantage in practically every other respect I can think of including lack of availability of wides, potentially more sensor noise, smaller viewfinder etc etc

I can't let that go without a retort.

3 wideangle lenses of outstanding quality in 3 different pricing grades are available for Olympus users. The consumer 9-18 which by all accounts is a fine UWA, the 11-22 which has superb rectilinear correction and the 7-14 f4 which is fully weather sealed.

A little research befoere making random attacks please :pac:

Morrisseeee

availability of wides

Actually the 14-42mm is a highly respected entry-level kit lens, it got some nice reviews recently.

DaireQuinlan

duffarama wrote: »

I can't let that go without a retort.

3 wideangle lenses of outstanding quality in 3 different pricing grades are available for Olympus users. The consumer 9-18 which by all accounts is a fine UWA, the 11-22 which has superb rectilinear correction and the 7-14 f4 which is fully weather sealed.

A little research befoere making random attacks please :pac:

First off, it wasn't a random attack, merely an observation. Honestly I think people get too attached to their chosen camera systems sometimes. It was more a general reply about cropped sensors, in response to Morrisseee's comment about the olympus sensor. The points I've made are in general true for ALL the cropped sensors on the market. Wides are generally underrepresented in the lens lineups of the major manufacturers compared to the plethora of normal->telephoto zooms and primes. The problem is made worse with Olympus because of its significantly higher crop ratio.

Morrisseeee wrote: »

Actually the 14-42mm is a highly respected entry-level kit lens, it got some nice reviews recently.

28mm is only really bordering on a decent wideangle though.

CabanSail

Pssst - I hope we are going to play nice here

Morrisseeee

Quick, outside now, fight, fight !
Nope, I think 'Attack' was mentioned in jest !
Most of the points raised are justified.

duffarama

DaireQuinlan wrote: »

Wides are generally underrepresented in the lens lineups of the major manufacturers compared to the plethora of normal->telephoto zooms and primes. The problem is made worse with Olympus because of its significantly higher crop ratio.

Yet it isn't as I mentioned in my previous post they have 3 different grades of lenses and each grade from consumer to "top pro" has a UWA available. You can go as wide as 14mm with the 7-14 f4

http://www.popphoto.com/americanphotofeatures/5339/editors-choice-2008-slr-lenses.html

DaireQuinlan

duffarama wrote: »

Yet it isn't as I mentioned in my previous post they have 3 different grades of lenses and each grade from consumer to "top pro" has a UWA available. You can go as wide as 14mm with the 7-14 f4

http://www.popphoto.com/americanphotofeatures/5339/editors-choice-2008-slr-lenses.html

But thats sort of my point. Thats 3 lenses at 24mm equivalent and under, its only two lenses at 20mm equivalent or under, which is what I'd regard as an ultrawide. Looking at Nikon fullframe (not for any other reason than I'm reasonably familiar with the nikon lineup, I'm sure the Olympus film lens lineup is similar, as is the canon FF lens selection), I can probably off the top of my head name about 10 or more zooms that include 24mm or less, and probably (crucially) about as many primes. Thats what I mean when I say that there's a lack of availability of wides, not that there ISN'T any, just that your choice is pretty much curtailed to 1 or maybe 2 lenses.

duffarama

DaireQuinlan wrote: »

But thats sort of my point. Thats 3 lenses at 24mm equivalent and under, its only two lenses at 20mm equivalent or under, which is what I'd regard as an ultrawide. Looking at Nikon fullframe (not for any other reason than I'm reasonably familiar with the nikon lineup, I'm sure the Olympus film lens lineup is similar, as is the canon FF lens selection), I can probably off the top of my head name about 10 or more zooms that include 24mm or less, and probably (crucially) about as many primes. Thats what I mean when I say that there's a lack of availability of wides, not that there ISN'T any, just that your choice is pretty much curtailed to 1 or maybe 2 lenses.

This is where your lack of knowledge shows though.
The Olympus system is all digital and essentially all new since their first DSLR the E1. All the old lenses from film days were disregarded and a new lens line begun from scratch.

So for all focal lengths there is a consumer lens, a pro lens and a top pro lens. Why would you want 10 different lenses that go below 24mm when the 3 dedicated WA's are so good?

There is also the 12-60 which is a superb lens so that makes it 4 at 24mm or below.

You can be covered from 14mm to 400mm in 35mm terms with 3 top quality lenses with Olympus. 7-14 + 12-60 + 50-200 there is no need for anything else unless you want longer as the lenses are that good.

Ghost Train

have an entry level pentax and love it, you don't see many lens for sale on adverts.ie etc. easier to get canon and nikon stuff

DaireQuinlan

duffarama wrote: »

So for all focal lengths there is a consumer lens, a pro lens and a top pro lens. Why would you want 10 different lenses that go below 24mm when the 3 dedicated WA's are so good?

Ok, so you're acknowledging that there's a lack of wideangles then. Very good That was the only point at issue here. Why wouldn't you want the widest choice available ? I mean, I'm all for fanboy-ism but making out that the disadvantages of your system of choice are in some way ADvantages is a bit extreme ...

CabanSail

I think that we have established the facts about the Olympus system now. The OP was asking about Nikon & Pentax, so this is going a bit off topic.

AnCatDubh

Ok. To call a halt to this, I believe when I re-read the OP's post, it was a Nikon/Pentax question. I happened to reference Olympus in the context of a number of brands which I feel are excellent and that a beginner "can't go wrong" with. The continuing discourse on the subject of Olympus being good or bad / lens / and sensor sizes is hardly offering the OP anything.

I request from a moderation standpoint that the only continuing posts on the matter are as to the OP's original question. The continuing debate is derailing the thread and hence will be considered an infraction as per the charter.

Feel free to start a new thread if you wish on the continuing debate should you feel it necessary but keep it friendly.