Reasons I don't believe in God.

Mr. Incognito

I posted this in the "What convinced you thread, but I think it would be an interesting thread on it's own for people to list the reasons why they don't believe in God.

Here's mine:

Reasons I don't believe in God.


Organised Religions

This is an aside really

Thousands of them. All screaming they have the right answer. Funny when you drill into them, be they cult (well, they're all cults) or officially tax exempted they all want more converts, money, and you to subscribe slavishly to their doctrine of thought, habit and bigoted hypocricy. No thank you, might as well join the army and get paid.
The truth is no-one knows, and anyone that clains they have the answers must immediately be discounted as a liar. The persuasion of the group mentality and tradition stops people from realising this simple truth.

Insufficient Knowledge, evidence.

We're here, someone/thing must have made us. This is flawed logic and a bit too simple. The big bang is a theory, a best guess. Maybe the universe was ALWAYS here or is a big loop. No-one knows. As linear creatures our basic model for time is linear, but time is an imaginary concept in our heads. Anything is possible. By subscribing to any belief I am, with no evidence only faith discounting other viable interpretations.

The joke of a god/s that's peddled out

Burning bushes, bee-jee Jesus, Allah the avenger, Krishna the octopus hands, God the murderer in the old testament verses God the forgiver in the new. Ich don't think so. If you're up there superman, save me!


People's inherent stupidity.

People that watch x-factor for example and millions believed the earth was being invaded by Martians in the 1930's because Owell got himself a wireless. People, the majority of them, are well, thick. They are not thought to think, they are regimented through school, work and life and are happy little drones. It's pretty easy to manipulate people. 90% of Americans believe, for examlet that communism is evil and bad without ever actually sitting down and reading marxist writings and realising that, wow unions etc are actually from maxist concepts.(This is only an example, please lets not get into a socialist debate here)

Religions tools

I mean, seriously. God didn't write no book, and if he did he's a terrible writer. The bible is a collection of moral stories as tools, I mean, they're vague enough to cover practically anything, but then people go and peddle it as fact? huh? Get real. If I was an omnipitent being and I decided to write the mysteries of the universe I think I'd have something closer to star wars lol. If I have to hear about one more of Abrahams begats, well, that's as far as I got. Too boring. I'm sure the Koran is the same.
Grown men in dresses swinging burning insence isn't mysterious and magical, it's a bit sad if you need smoke and mirrors to distract the audience from, well your smoke and mirrors.

This whole faith thing.

Now this is what really gets my goat. You know when a child asks why is the sky blue, you don't say, well son, because of the light refracting off particles in the athmosphere, you say SHUT UP! because most people don't know why, so they lie. Religion is the same, it's easy to put your hands behind your back and pretend you know the answers when you have such a thing as faith to hide behind.

Whay happens when we die- ah you must have faith.
What's heaven like -ah you must have faith.
Was Jesus gay? - ah you must have faith.

I respect someone that say's, well chap, I really don't know, but when you can lie, and then present that lie as fact using faith to support it you can build a whole host of lies on the first lie.

For example.

Jesus was God= Lie,
Jesus founded a church= like
That church has suprememe moral authority= lie
That moral authority has decided condoms are a sin against god= lie.

People are so caught up in the last chain of the lie they forget about the whole pack of lies it is built on.

Evolution of thought

I believe we are evolving creatures. You can see this in our interpretation of religion. At first everything was a God, the wind, the sun, the trees, all had Gods. As we got a bit more advanced we rolled them into one. Things we didn't understand were "miracles" or "acts of Gods" as eclipses were once. Of course we have new explanations for things we still don't understand, like ghost and spirtuality etc, it's still convenient to file stuff under miracles/ gods will but I think that's just a little too simplistic. Today's miracles will probably be tomorrows science. I think God is a hang up we have that harks back. As we evolve I think we will have less need for a convenient omnipitent being to hang our ignorance on.

Religion causes more harm than good

There's a reason John Lennon's "Imagine" is up there with the best songs of all tiime consistently in polls. Religion's are generally based on the "love thy neighbour principle" and yet people fight over which God loves you more. Huh? Who cares, zealots- that's who, and they'll kill you for it!
Religions is a method of control and once you've opened that door you have 911, the cruisades, suicide bombers, religions wars etc. Of course I think that religion is a convenient excuse for people that have vested interests but this isn't the conspiracy forum so I'll leave it out.

Personal Note

It's quite one thing to know what you are against, it's quite another to know what you are for - Wind that shakes the Barley.
I've no intention of sh*tting all over everything. I'm an athiest because I don't believe in God. This doesn't mean I have a disbelief in everything. I believe that all energy in the universe is finite and everything is made up of the same stuff. Time is a concept in our heads, and this one energy exists as everything and everyone at the same time. When I die, I am converted into energy by the worms and back into earth, when the sun dies it's energy dissapetes into the universe to spawn new stars. I don't believe this energy is conscious, ie like a God, it merely is and we're all a part of it, connected. The universe balances out. If I commit horrible things it's merely another part of the same energy, that I will personally experience in my manifestation as that recipient. You might need to read that bit a few times to figure it out but it makes sense to me. I decided that when I was 12 and it seems pretty fair to me so I don't need some boring fear factor concepts as hell to motivate me to listen to some fat hypocrite on a Sunday or a reward system like heaven where i can go listen to Diana Ross records when I die. How droll. I'd HATE to be trapped as one person for eternity, but then, I have more imigination that most.

Make of that what you will.

Rev Hellfire

tl;dr

Its pretty much preaching to converted in here, other than as ego posts I've never seen the point in these.

Mr. Incognito

Perhaps,

But I'm just wondering if people don't believe in God for different reasons.

The cliche one you'll see in a movie is our tragic hero who doesn't believe in God cus he ran his dead wife over with a bus :rolleyes:

I mean, people have to sit down and some stage and think, I believe in God becasue of X, Y and Z, and similarily not believe in God because of X, Y and Z,

I'm just wondering if peoples non-belief is based on the same logic or people have differing views to the same conclusion.

Leonid

yeah, that time being a concept thing. For more on that read Kurt Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse 5.

Wibbs

Sorry time is a fundamental reality of our universe. You can call it what you will, time entropy whatever. Our perception of it may and can vary, but it is a measurable thing. It's a distinct dimension. Saying it's a concept is like saying mass is a concept. The word may be, but it still exists.

ChocolateSauce

I could, but why bother?

If I had to in one sentence, it would be:

I am an atheist because I believe there are no supernatural forces in any form anywhere.

The Mad Hatter

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

The cliche one you'll see in a movie is our tragic hero who doesn't believe in God cus he ran his dead wife over with a bus :rolleyes:

I don't believe in god because I was told so by a bus...

fitz0

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

The cliche one you'll see in a movie is our tragic hero who doesn't believe in God cus he ran his dead wife over with a bus :rolleyes:

Seems bit pointless if she was dead...

In all seriousness theres too many glaringly obvious (to me anyway) reasons to bother listing them.

Pepe LeFrits

I don't believe in God 'cos when I was 19 I prayed to win the lotto, and it never happened.

Zombrex

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Its pretty much preaching to converted in here, other than as ego posts I've never seen the point in these.

Ego posts? ... on Boards.ie? How delightfully decadent

The Mad Hatter

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

The cliche one you'll see in a movie is our tragic hero who doesn't believe in God cus he ran his dead wife over with a bus :rolleyes:

That's why I don't believe in bus drivers.

Undergod

OP, you can believe in God or Gods without being involved in an organized religion or subscribing slavishly to their doctrine of thought.

Zombrex

Undergod wrote: »

OP, you can believe in God or Gods without being involved in an organized religion or subscribing slavishly to their doctrine of thought.

No you can't

20goto10

Because I'm not delusional. Would a religious person list the reasons why they are not a scientologist? They'd find it a useless task. Thats how I feel about all religions.

Undergod

Wicknight wrote: »

No you can't

Yes, you can.

pH

Undergod wrote: »

Yes, you can.

Prove it.

achtungbarry

pH wrote: »

Prove it.

Gets popcorn

Dades

I'm with Undergod.

Since when can anyone put restrictions on what someone else can believe in?
People can believe what they like, in any way that suits them.

pH

Dades wrote: »

People can believe what they like, in any way that suits them.

No they can't*

* Haven't we done this already?

Dades

pH wrote: »

Haven't we done this already?

And it wasn't any good the first time around either... :pac:

pH

Dades wrote: »

And it wasn't any good the first time around either... :pac:

Yes it was ...

Undergod

I know plenty of people who has some kind of faith in a God, but aren't connected to any organized religion.

Zombrex

Undergod wrote: »

I know plenty of people who has some kind of faith in a God, but aren't connected to any organized religion.

joking aside, what does that actually mean? what specifically do they believe exists? What is "God" to them if they don't have any stories to use as reference

Galvasean

Dades wrote: »

People can believe what they like, in any way that suits them.

*cough* Hitler, Stalin...

Húrin

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

People's inherent stupidity.

People that watch x-factor for example and millions believed the earth was being invaded by Martians in the 1930's because Owell got himself a wireless. People, the majority of them, are well, thick. They are not thought to think, they are regimented through school, work and life and are happy little drones. It's pretty easy to manipulate people. 90% of Americans believe, for examlet that communism is evil and bad without ever actually sitting down and reading marxist writings and realising that, wow unions etc are actually from maxist concepts.(This is only an example, please lets not get into a socialist debate here)

Religions tools

I mean, seriously. God didn't write no book, and if he did he's a terrible writer. The bible is a collection of moral stories as tools, I mean, they're vague enough to cover practically anything, but then people go and peddle it as fact? huh? Get real. If I was an omnipitent being and I decided to write the mysteries of the universe I think I'd have something closer to star wars lol. If I have to hear about one more of Abrahams begats, well, that's as far as I got. Too boring. I'm sure the Koran is the same.
Grown men in dresses swinging burning insence isn't mysterious and magical, it's a bit sad if you need smoke and mirrors to distract the audience from, well your smoke and mirrors.

Where is the evidence that 90% of Americans believe that communism is evil and bad? If you feel free to judge Christianity, Islam and the other religions without reading their books (as you clearly have not), why do you expect anyone else to refrain from judging communism until they have read Marx?

marco_polo

Húrin wrote: »

Where is the evidence that 90% of Americans believe that communism is evil and bad? If you feel free to judge Christianity, Islam and the other religions without reading their books (as you clearly have not), why do you expect anyone else to refrain from judging communism until they have read Marx?

Because there is ample evidence that politics exists?

Dades

Galvasean wrote: »

*cough* Hitler, Stalin...

I said can, not should.

The fact people can believe in it doesn't validate anything. Whether or not that belief is crackpot is completely moot to the point.

HalloweenJack

My reason for not believing in a God (I was raised a Catholic and that's where all my knowledge of Christian doctrine comes from) is because I don't see why I should grovel and be thankful for everything that happens in life in some hope that when I die, I'll go to a perfect place.

Firstly, lots of bad things have happened in my life so I'm not going to thank some higher power for hurting me.

Secondly, if heaven is really a utopia then theoretically do whatever you want. However, a lot of the things I enjoy would be considered immoral so I wouldn't be allowed to enjoy them in heaven so it's hardly a perfect place then if I can't really do what I want.

Red Hand

I just don't believe.

Muppet Man

Aside from the lack of evidence and all that lark, it just seems that he could very easily convince people of his existence but for whatever reason, he does not.

Given that he likes to be adored and prayed to (a bit of an egotistical chap is our god) then if he really existed then he must be kinda pi$$ed off with 4.5 billion people in the world not believing in him (non-Christian). So the reason I dont believe in god is because he hasnt done anything spectacular, like make the sky go a lovely shade of purple and let everyone see it, to convince everyone in the world of his existence and then adore him like he seems to so achingly wants. Or just appear on TV... or some mad stuff like that.

Seems like an easy thing for a man of his abilities to do. That would surely convince a lot of the 4.5 non-Christians (although they would probably argue that it was their buddha did it...) *sigh*

Muppet Man.

UU

Well I disbelieve in God for different reasons. Well I suppose I'd still subscribe say to your thought on the matter but I suppose lets say in addition to that, I'm atheist from a philosophical point of view. More precisely existentialist such as the French philosophers Jean-Paul Sartre and Simone de Beauvoir, the German philosophers Friedriche Nietzsche and Martin Heidegger (although I'm not fond of Heidegger at all due to his links with National Socialism at the time). My interests would be a lot in the atheistic or sceptical philosophical point of view. The Greek philosophers notably Epircuras doubted the existence of the gods and even the the likes of Baron de Dolbache and David Hume. So many atheists do tend to disbelieve in many different ways but many seem to forget a lot is in philosophical ways. Of course, the likes of Dawkins would be seen as more scientific than philosophical.

I suppose it's due to my view of the world. The fact is Sartre says that "existence precedes essence" or "subjectivity" in that we aren't like the paper-cutter which is created by a creator but that we are thrown into the world (existence) and we define who we are after (essence). That is, our choices are a reflection on our existence. Furthermore, for the existentialist the fact that God doesn't exist is particularly distressing because that means there are no set values. Morality and ethics become "ambiguous" as Simone de Beauvoir goes on to say. That is only touching the surface by the way. Philosophy especially existentialism is a very hard subject to understand fully. But Philosophy should be distinguished from religion in that a lot of philosophy has been deep rooted in scepticism. Of course there have been religious philosophers also.

CDfm

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

There's a reason John Lennon's "Imagine" is up there with the best songs of all tiime consistently in polls.

I always thought it was beacause he was one of the Beatles and was really good a writting songs to get into the charts. It was his job.

I didnt read anything about John Lennon giving his possesions away but did read about him giving donations to dodgy organisations.But he only gave away a small amount.

It seems to be the catholic church the OP is against.

As for the Bible not being well written -thats subjective. give me Andy McNab before James Joyce anyday.

I often think that Chistianity is too simple for lots of people and it doesnt work for them because they cant make it complicated enough.

CDfm

UU wrote: »

So many atheists do tend to disbelieve in many different ways but many seem to forget a lot is in philosophical ways. Of course, the likes of Dawkins would be seen as more scientific than philosophical.

I suppose it's due to my view of the world. The fact is Sartre says that "existence precedes essence" or "subjectivity" in that we aren't like the paper-cutter which is created by a creator but that we are thrown into the world (existence) and we define who we are after (essence). That is, our choices are a reflection on our existence. Furthermore, for the existentialist the fact that God doesn't exist is particularly distressing because that means there are no set values. Morality and ethics become "ambiguous" as Simone de Beauvoir goes on to say. That is only touching the surface by the way. Philosophy especially existentialism is a very hard subject to understand fully. But Philosophy should be distinguished from religion in that a lot of philosophy has been deep rooted in scepticism..

A huge issue but summarised beautifully by you. That Christians(me included) cannot understand from where atheists derive morals from is a huge issue.

Dawkins on the other hand says God is unlikely - and his attempts at morals and philosophy are fairly gauche.

No doubt we disagree - the philosophy of religion is a facinating area.

pH

CDfm wrote: »

A huge issue but summarised beautifully by you. That Christians(me included) cannot understand from where atheists derive morals from is a huge issue.

Atheists (me included) cannot understand where Christians derive morals from is a huge issue also.

CDfm

pH wrote: »

Atheists (me included) cannot understand where Christians derive morals from is a huge issue also.

It looks like .UU wrote it rhetorically.it is a very succint summary of the existentialist dilemma.

AnywaY - whatever your belief have wishing everyone a great Christmas.

Valmont

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

People's inherent stupidity.

I don't know what's stupider, believing in God or Marxism. I'd have to go with Marxism:pac:

CDfm

Valmont wrote: »

I don't know what's stupider, believing in God or Marxism. I'd have to go with Marxism:pac:

Definately -no pressies for you:D

UU

CDfm wrote: »

A huge issue but summarised beautifully by you. That Christians(me included) cannot understand from where atheists derive morals from is a huge issue.

Dawkins on the other hand says God is unlikely - and his attempts at morals and philosophy are fairly gauche.

No doubt we disagree - the philosophy of religion is a facinating area.


It looks like .UU wrote it rhetorically.it is a very succint summary of the existentialist dilemma.

AnywaY - whatever your belief have wishing everyone a great Christmas.

Hey. Well thanks but I'm not endorsing the idea of God either because if God does exist, then humans are not free, or at least don't accept their full inherent freedom (bad faith). After all, essence does not precede exist existence. The very reason morals are ambiguous is because there is no creator, no lawgiver and that is something we have to accept. But to me, the fact that there is no God means that we are thrown into the world and we are faced with choice and we cannot escape from this. But to the existentialist, the only moral which we can say can hold universally is in fact the Golden Rule "treat others as you yourself would like to treated". Sartre accepted this.

Although even religious people I find are also caught in such a dilemma. Because many will accept only some morals and not others from whatever holy scripture. So it's a pick-and-choose situation. And then there are many other issues. The difference though is that the existentialist accepts that morals are ambiguous whereas the religious person will often accept that they're handed down by a god without realising the ambiguity of that situation.

A good essay by Sartre is "Existentialism and Human Emotions". Btw, have a Good Christmas, Midwinter, Saturnalia or whatever you call it!