energy efficient recessed lightbulbs

oxygen_old

Anyone have any experience with these? I hear there not that good but I'm rewiring the kitchen to fit them, so Ill have no choice in the matter really. Can I continue to use regular recessed down lighting after the ban comes in?

Dardania

These are your only man:
http://www.megamanuk.com/pdfs/catalogue-2008/dors.pdf

They are well made, give a high quality light output (both light temperature & colour rendering) and are dimmable.

The downsides are they do take a min or two to warm up - they could have made them warm up faster, but then the mercury content would be too high - an acceptable trade off IMO.

Cost - about €12.50 from T O'Reillys - will last approx 10,000 hrs.

D

oxygen_old

a min or two to warm up. That is soo crap, no offence to yourself Dardania, I just think Europe should not have made us adopt a technology that isnt developed yet. I seen the energy saving bulbs in my sisters house, and they are sh*te, I dont think its ever lit up properly. And you know the way it is with downlighters, three will warm up, two wont, and one wont turn on.

antoinolachtnai

A friend has put the GU10 megamans into a commercial premises. He replaced old R60's with them. They are as described by dardania.

If you are leaving these on for a reasonably long period at a time, they should be good for you.

Some people are fussy about the quality of the light and don't like them. But I think they are good.

You do need to buy a decent brand when you are buying cfl's.

air

+1 for the Megamans, IMO the colour of the light from them is more attractive than the standard bulbs and they produce at least as much light (subjective comparison having 3/4 bulbs in a room replaced with 11W Megaman GU10s)
The warming up issue is hardly a big deal, by the time you get into the room and sit down or whatever they'll be half up to speed.

oxygen_old

Yea, but the kitchen is such a pop in and out of place, the heating up is a big enough issue for me.

Im only griping at this stage, since Im going to have to go with them, but Im stocking up on regular bulbs before this ban comes in.

sparkyjo

you can now buy a 3watt led lamp with a 10000 h life and exceptional light the eq of a 38 watt halegen i am an electrician and have them all the way through my house have tried them gu10 7watt flouresent which were rubish you but it you are going for the leds ones do not buy the cluster ones buy the single led 3 watt or the 3 1watt version as they are far superior and you can get them in day light and warm light i got them on ebay from the uk as they do not sell them in ireland yet they only sell rubbish here and charge throw the nose for them i got them for 10 for 127 euro delievered but with the exchange rate they would only be about 95 for 10 now if you need the name of the shop cotact me and i'll get it for you

The Waxbill

Hi Sparkyjo could you post a link to those LED lights you got on ebay. I'd be very interested in getting some. Thanks.

CJhaughey

oxygen wrote: »

a min or two to warm up. That is soo crap, no offence to yourself Dardania, I just think Europe should not have made us adopt a technology that isnt developed yet.

Europe hasn't made us adopt anything, it is the Loony greens trying to be the first in Europe to make the incandescent bulb into a thing of the past.
The only problem is that there is not energy saving replacements for all types of bulbs yet.

I have the Megaman GU10 and find them good, I have had various different types of energy saving bulbs in for the last 3 years and have come to the conclusion that LED clusters are a waste of time. I have had one blow already and it by no means had 100k hours on it.

If you use megaman, I would advise buying the whole fittings not just the bulb, the Cold cathode GU10 bulbs are a lot longer than the standard incandescent GU10 and don't fit all bulbholders.
I haven't tried the DorS but will probably fit them at some stage.

The Waxbill

Just today i was in a house that had GU10 CFL's that are the same size as the ordinary GU10's i.e not taller like the megamans. This is great for me as i would have had to change all my fittings to fit the megamans. I'll be going for these, they were called Litetrons, I think.

Eddief

I installed 18 of the Litetron 11W GU10s. Thought they were great but have replaced approx 8 in just a few months. I'm wasting more money than the electricity savings by driving to the shop getting replacements each time. Supposed to run for 7000 hours !!!!

Ice_Box

I've been thinking of getting these for a while. They are not dimmable. As bright as a 45 watt halagon. 10 mm Longer than a standard bulb but the same width. Juest 3.6 watts... Expensive too...

http://www.ultraleds.co.uk/ultra-mr16-lumen-warm-white-leds-angle-p-1941.html

RKQ

Interesting advice above, keep up the good work.
I am annoyed to hear that these "replacement" GU10's don't fit existing fittings, throw out as much light or last as long!

Is it just me?
Whats the point in having these "alternative" bulbs if they aren't really viable alternatives?
Maybe I'll just have to stockpile the standard bulbs!
Typical Irish Government "solution" IMO, why do we put up with this?:eek:

air

I personally find the Megaman 11W GU10s to be perfectly adequate replacements and they fit all of the fittings I've used them in. Regardless of energy efficiency, I would choose them over a halogen bulb for quality of light and brightness. It's only fittings with a solid retainer that will cause the bulbs to protrude a few mm. There is no onus on you to use recessed light bulbs in any case, and there are plenty of traditional energy efficient options (flourescent tubes, standard cfls) that you can use to light your rooms. IMHO, the government should not ban traditional bulbs, but rather put a large tax on their sale, using any revenues generated in this manner to subsidise the more energy efficient alternatives. I dont see why there should be a delay in either strategy though.

RKQ

air wrote: »

IMHO, the government should not ban traditional bulbs, but rather put a large tax on their sale, using any revenues generated in this manner to subsidise the more energy efficient alternatives. I dont see why there should be a delay in either strategy though.

I'll give Megaman 11W GU10s a try. I've circa 40 bulb fittings so replacing the fitting isn't viable. (I try to use only a quater on a daily basis - not always easy)

Replacing the fittings with flourescent tubes would be design suicide! I don't want to live in an Office building! Great effient light fitting but looks crap IMO.

I also have CFL's in every room! My GU10 are mainly on exposed purlins lighting our vaulted ceilings. So anthing else would look rubbish.

Taxing people for decisions they made years ago is crazy and lazy policy making. Raising tax in a recession is just plain stupid!

IMO The Government needs to use it head and devise new solutions to these problems without taking the lazy option - raise tax. It should also ensure their are functioning alternatives before it brings in a "ban". Europe weren't happy with the original ban policy.

air

RKQ wrote: »

Replacing the fittings with flourescent tubes would be design suicide!

Yeah, I agree, I was just trying to make the point that they wouldnt have you in the dark.
If you were lucky enough to have gone for cheap fittings without a fixed bulb holder (some I installed were homebase cheapies where the bulb plugs into a floating socket and the bulb is retained with a circlip) you should be ok.

oxygen_old

RKQ wrote: »

I'll give Megaman 11W GU10s a try. I've circa 40 bulb fittings so replacing the fitting isn't viable. (I try to use only a quater on a daily basis - not always easy)

Replacing the fittings with flourescent tubes would be design suicide! I don't want to live in an Office building! Great effient light fitting but looks crap IMO.

I also have CFL's in every room! My GU10 are mainly on exposed purlins lighting our vaulted ceilings. So anthing else would look rubbish.

Taxing people for decisions they made years ago is crazy and lazy policy making. Raising tax in a recession is just plain stupid!

IMO The Government needs to use it head and devise new solutions to these problems without taking the lazy option - raise tax. It should also ensure their are functioning alternatives before it brings in a "ban". Europe weren't happy with the original ban policy.

Thanks for the replies. I think a energy efficient light bulb sticky would be useful, especially for when the ban comes in.

So looks like consensus is Megaman 11W GU10s are the most viable. Can anyone vouch for how long they take to heat up? There for the kitchen so ill be taking trips in and out of there consistently enough.

air

Just tested it there, i'd say about 30secs till they reach their peak brightness. They actually turn on within a second or so, so you're not going to be bumbling around in the dark or anything. Best option is to buy one or two to try out - they're sold in B&Q amongst others. If you really need instant light you could mix in an LED or two aswell.Personally I'd find them fine in a kitchen, by the time you'd get from the switch at the doorway to a countertop or whatever they'd be fine.

oxygen_old

yea, I would like to try them before I install them, but from my understanding, each energy efficient lightbulbs need a transformer for them. So Im either going to have to go with them, or regular leds. My parents have led's and in about 3 years not one of them has blown, and since they are plastered into the house, which is a new build, I cant see the EU making them replace all the led fittings with energy efficient fittings.

Thanks for doing that time test btw air, gives me a good idea of what their like. 30 seconds isnt the longest time

kilinick

We moved into a new house last march and in the roof of the kitchen were 9 Litetron gu10 jobbies. 4 of them now working! Think they are about 10euro each to replace??? Something wrong there... Anyone else have similar experiences? I see a poster earlier refered to it. Is this down to a fault with the brand i wonder????

asylumnut

Hi Guys,

I would strongly advise not putting CFL GU10's into a kitchen be it Megaman or Literon. There are a couple of reason's:

In a kitchen you want instant light. All CFL GU10's have a warm up period which may not be suitable. Good brands of LED's like Philips and Aurora have no warm up period.
I seen different brands of dimmable CFL's perform poorly on domestic and industrial dimmers. Dimmable CFL's are twice the price of a standard CFL. Philips have come out with the Perfect fit GU10 LED Master range this year. It is the same size as a halogen GU10 and is fully dimmable. They are in the shops at the same price as the dimmable CFL's but last 25,000hrs up to 40,000hrs in 3 and 4watt as appossed to 1,000hr if you are lucky with halogen.

Most of the big players in the lighting world are not putting any money aside for developing CFL's. As far as I am aware they will, like incandescents, be a thing of the past in the next few years.

LED is the way to go provided you stay away from the cluster LED muck. They do not do what they say on the tin.

Regards,

CBYR1983

I've asked about this before and got little back, but here we go:


- What about low voltage MR16?

paddy147

asylumnut wrote: »

Hi Guys,

I would strongly advise not putting CFL GU10's into a kitchen be it Megaman or Literon. There are a couple of reason's:

In a kitchen you want instant light. All CFL GU10's have a warm up period which may not be suitable. Good brands of LED's like Philips and Aurora have no warm up period.
I seen different brands of dimmable CFL's perform poorly on domestic and industrial dimmers. Dimmable CFL's are twice the price of a standard CFL. Philips have come out with the Perfect fit GU10 LED Master range this year. It is the same size as a halogen GU10 and is fully dimmable. They are in the shops at the same price as the dimmable CFL's but last 25,000hrs up to 40,000hrs in 3 and 4watt as appossed to 1,000hr if you are lucky with halogen.

Most of the big players in the lighting world are not putting any money aside for developing CFL's. As far as I am aware they will, like incandescents, be a thing of the past in the next few years.

LED is the way to go provided you stay away from the cluster LED muck. They do not do what they say on the tin.

Regards,

Any opinions on these Robus 3 watt warm LED bulbs then??

asylumnut

Hi Guys,

The Robus LED in the sent pic is a cluster LED. The trouble with cluster LED's is that there is no heat sink. Contrary to popular belief LED/ solid state lighting do give off heat. Not nearly as much as halogen however. The heat generated by the LED needs to be taken away from the face of the lamp containing the LED which is done using a heat sink.

The heat generated from LED cluster lamps with glass boddies only contain the heat. This causes two problems:

• The heat generated burns out one LED causing the lamp to fail
• The heat unsticks the glue holding the face plate on and may fall off

Cluster LED's are not suitable for comercial premises where the lights are on for prolonged periods.

Onother problem with cluster LED's is that it is not possible to direct the angle of light emmited from them. It's just a wide spreed of poor light.
Witht the better brand of LED like Philips and Aurora you can get a range of beam widths up to 40deg.
When checking to see what bulb would be suitable dont look head on into an LED because they will all seem bright. Light two and see which one casts the light better either on the ceilling above or floor below.
Most of the major players in the LED market know that there is alot of ****e bulbs out there so they have brought out their own range of value for money LED's. Philips have the "Perfect fit" range which will do what it says on the tin. You'll pay a fortune for Philips products in the shops so just go to your electrical wholesaler. Aurora have opened a new showroom in finglas so you can see what lamps would be suitable.

On Low voltage LED's. If you are using low voltage you are aleady doing better the using GU10. A 20watt IRC (infra red coated) Low voltage lamp will give the same light out put as a 50watt GU10.
In my opinion, which you can take or leave, is that if you are already using Low Voltage lamps and want to change to LED low voltage you would probably be better off getting rid of the transformer and switching to GU10. The GU10 should fit in the same fitting and held in place by the same clip. It would mean getting a new connection which would be inexspensive.
The reason I say that is that if the existing transformer is of poor quality or over 5years old it may not run the LED. Also the quality brand LED's have a life span of up to 40,000hrs. You may find that after a year of installation that transorfmer packs up and you find yourself back up at the ceilling re-doing the transformer.

Again Philips and Aurora have good quality dimmable and non-dimmable LED GU10's and MR16's.

It worth talking to someone in the know before you make a decission. They guys in Philips wont botter with anything domestic but Eurosales Electrical Wholesalers will give you any info and show you the various ranges. Likewise Aurora are very helpfull. I dont work for either of the companies mentioned above but when my reputation is at stake on projects that last thing I want is call backs in this climate.

Regards

antoinolachtnai

Asylumnut: what sort of money in round numbers are the LED lights working out at? Something to replace a 50w GU10. I am seeing the Philips Master's for around GBP 30 online. Is that about the going?

If anyone is looking for something really cheap that works, in my experience, you could try:

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.35287

These are fairly cheap, and give a pleasant enough light. I have had good success with one of these in a hall area, in a place that is easily accessed. The light is very narrow and directed.

These are not a branded bulb, however, so I'd be afraid the quality might be very variable. As you can see on the site, one person had bad experiences. If you don't have the time to mess around, this is probably not the option.

My experience with the cluster LEDs is exactly the same as yours, i.e., consistently bad.

asylumnut

I wouldn't be too sure about using unbranded lamps. The lumen out put seems good however I would be too sure that it is actually using 3watts. Some of the unbranded lamps start off great until the heat burns off the phosphor used in getting the colour temperature and you may find that one bulb looks yellow and another white. The life of the lamp dosent seem to be stated which would worry me.
For domestic jobs I use a warmer colour temperature to mimic as much as possible halogen. A 2700k or even 3000k does the job. Above that and things start looking clinical.
I use EuroSales when I have a job on because they seem to have all the Philips lamps and sell them at a good price. In fairness they do stock some rubbish because people ask for it.
I recently bought the Philips 7-50watt Master GU10 for €25 which may seem exspensive but considering that I can get a 50watt Halogen GU10 for €1.50 which will last 1,000hrs (if you are lucky) where the Philips is a 40,000hrs lamp. You would need 40 x 50watt Halogen GU10's before the LED has run it's course = €60. You've already saved money evan before taking into account the wattage savings.
Personally I went with the 7-35watt Master LED because I could get away with the 35watt light out put at home. Eurosales are selling them for €12.50. The have a life of 45,000hr and are dimmable. I fully expect to be in a nursing home before the lamps fail. At an average of 4 burning hours per day = 30yrs.

Thats it, I'm getting into sales. Beats sitting on me arse waiting for the phone to ring!

Regards

paddy147

asylumnut wrote: »

I wouldn't be too sure about using unbranded lamps. The lumen out put seems good however I would be too sure that it is actually using 3watts. Some of the unbranded lamps start off great until the heat burns off the phosphor used in getting the colour temperature and you may find that one bulb looks yellow and another white. The life of the lamp dosent seem to be stated which would worry me.
For domestic jobs I use a warmer colour temperature to mimic as much as possible halogen. A 2700k or even 3000k does the job. Above that and things start looking clinical.
I use EuroSales when I have a job on because they seem to have all the Philips lamps and sell them at a good price. In fairness they do stock some rubbish because people ask for it.
I recently bought the Philips 7-50watt Master GU10 for €25 which may seem exspensive but considering that I can get a 50watt Halogen GU10 for €1.50 which will last 1,000hrs (if you are lucky) where the Philips is a 40,000hrs lamp. You would need 40 x 50watt Halogen GU10's before the LED has run it's course = €60. You've already saved money evan before taking into account the wattage savings.
Personally I went with the 7-35watt Master LED because I could get away with the 35watt light out put at home. Eurosales are selling them for €12.50. The have a life of 45,000hr and are dimmable. I fully expect to be in a nursing home before the lamps fail. At an average of 4 burning hours per day = 30yrs.

Thats it, I'm getting into sales. Beats sitting on me arse waiting for the phone to ring!

Regards

I bought sopme of these Philips LED dimmable lights today.

My problem is that for some godly unknown reason,these Philips LED,s will not sit fully into the chrome housings in my ceilings,so I cant put in the retaining clip to hold the bulb in place.

The Philips is exactly the same size and width as a normal 50W GU10 bulb.

Can I just ream/file out the chrome housing,or do I need different chrome housings now???