To the motorcycle rider who was not in my mirror

Saab Ed

Just a little notice to motorbike drivers ( Relating to an incident on the M50 today) If you are overtaking me and you end up in the blindspot of my mirror when I am driving a truck , I will most likely not see you the first time. Of course by the time I take my second glance in my mirror, because you are over taking me you will either be in full view of me or most likely past me. What I wont nor cant know is that you have decided to stay in my blinspot while hogging the outside lane and I will most likely kill you with my truck as I pull out because you have now decided you are going to pass me by wedgeing yourself in to a spot that really doesnt exist. You now know that I dont know you are there so maybe the thing to do was lift off. As a former biker I know all to well the dangers of blindspots but I havent got eyes on the side of my head. It works both ways and if you are going to pass ,then pass. If not then get in lane. Sorry for ranting:)

peasant

That biker obviously didn't go to the same school as these kids



(The truck is LHD)

Fishtits

Saab,

A very valid point.

As someone who came within an inch of making a mat out of an old dear & her shopping whilst driving a rigid down the Quays a few years ago, I understand where you're coming from.

Bikers et al, please be aware that truck drivers are not trying to squat you, sometimes you just can't be seen... regardless of mirrors.

galwaytt

Indeed. Saw an oil truck pin a Sierra against a kerb, years ago and put the pattern of swirling (wheel) nuts all down one side........truck driver didn't feel a thing. The Sierra driver, I can assure you, most assuredly did :eek:

Vertakill

OP, tell me about it..

I've a car I can't even drive at the moment because of a biker who crashed into me while 'trying' to pull off an Evel Knievel type manouever. He got impatient waiting in a queue of cars behind me while I indicated to cross the traffic to go into a petrol station and nipped out from behind a car and tried to gun it down the middle of the road along a complete white line to then run into the back of me as he misjudged it.

So I've temporarily lost 4yrs NCB (until claim is finalised) all because of stupid impatient wreckless fckers.
Seeing as I'm 23 and driving a sports car, Quinn decided to nearly double my insurance next renewal and now that I've cancelled it, nobody will touch me as I've 0 NCB until Quinn take their finger out.

Quinn direct -vs- Czech biker + Czech reg plates + Czech insurance = 6 months later and nothing.... :rolleyes:


There seriously needs to be a more thorough/strict driving test or something for bikers than the current system. There's far too many on the road who have terrible road awareness when they're the ones who need to be permanently on their toes. Not to mention the complete lack of respect for other motorists that a lot (not all) of them display..

Makes my blood boil... :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

seanybiker

its not just bikers on the road that drive crap alot of cagers are bad aswell. I do agree though that alot of my fellow bikers have a problem with people in cars thinking they own the road. Personally if you are on a bike or in a car we all have the same rights to be on the road. Compulsory training for bikes and cars should be brought in.

Vertakill

Yep. you're right seany.

I should rephrase what I wrote, because it's just people in general that need more education on driving. But I think it does hold even more importance with bikers because they've very little protection, they're not as visible as cars and they're also a lot quicker for the most part.

JackFrosty

Gonna go slightly off track here,

I am a truck driver myself, and what really annoys me is,
When you pull in to let some one pass you and they dont even say thanks!

That really pisses me off!

seanybiker

Vertakill wrote: »

Yep. you're right seany.

I should rephrase what I wrote, because it's just people in general that need more education on driving. But I think it does hold even more importance with bikers because they've very little protection, they're not as visible as cars and they're also a lot quicker for the most part.

Ah yeah i know what ya mean. I always take care when overtaking but some of my friends i honestly dont know what they be thinking when they just ignore all common sense when overtaking. Scary stuff

Traumadoc

Were you changing lanes to drive your truck in the overtaking lane?

cabrwab

If he was on the M50 one has to assume he was on the 60KPH section and thus it is legal for him to be in the outside/overtaking lane.

Its what it sounds like to me anyway! Some people have no idea of blind spots trucks/vans have id say there was some butt clenching going on from both of you there OP.

cjt156

Couldn't agree more OP. I spent years on bikes (back when you couldn't afford a car if you were under 25 in Dublin) and it taught me a lot about driving defensively.
Never spend more than a second in anyone's blindspot and never assume what the other guy is going to do next.

gpjordanf1

Saab Ed wrote: »

Just a little notice to motorbike drivers ( Relating to an incident on the M50 today) If you are overtaking me and you end up in the blindspot of my mirror when I am driving a truck , I will most likely not see you the first time. Of course by the time I take my second glance in my mirror, because you are over taking me you will either be in full view of me or most likely past me. What I wont nor cant know is that you have decided to stay in my blinspot while hogging the outside lane and I will most likely kill you with my truck as I pull out because you have now decided you are going to pass me by wedgeing yourself in to a spot that really doesnt exist. You now know that I dont know you are there so maybe the thing to do was lift off. As a former biker I know all to well the dangers of blindspots but I havent got eyes on the side of my head. It works both ways and if you are going to pass ,then pass. If not then get in lane. Sorry for ranting:)

Hi,
As a biker myself I agree that alot of people drive dangerously and more so in cars, I took alot of professional training before hitting the open road by myself and learned so much, it wasn't funny. I firmly believe without the training I would have been in an accident by now.

But in this day and age and all our modern technology shouldn't all trucks and the likes be fitted with a camera on the back or side of the truck showing all blind spots, alot of new trucks are already fitted with reversing cameras, so fitting another camera or two shouldn't be a big deal.
In fact I think this should be a new law!

Eoin

Uh oh, here we go. If people think the cyclists can get snotty, wait till the bikers get going with all the "cager" crap.

milltown

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

Hi,
As a biker myself I agree that alot of people drive dangerously and more so in cars, I took alot of professional training before hitting the open road by myself and learned so much, it wasn't funny. I firmly believe without the training I would have been in an accident by now.

But in this day and age and all our modern technology shouldn't all trucks and the likes be fitted with a camera on the back or side of the truck showing all blind spots, alot of new trucks are already fitted with reversing cameras, so fitting another camera or two shouldn't be a big deal.
In fact I think this should be a new law!

I think most drivers, truckers included, have enough to be concentrating on without having to keep an eye on a monitor in the cab to see what's beside them. Don't you?

The reversing cameras are intended to be a main point of focus when reversing, i.e. travelling in the direction the camera is pointed. It is not for keeping an ey out the back when travelling forwards. In fact I don't think they're even activated unless reverse is engaged.

gpjordanf1

milltown wrote: »

I think most drivers, truckers included, have enough to be concentrating on without having to keep an eye on a monitor in the cab to see what's beside them. Don't you?

The reversing cameras are intended to be a main point of focus when reversing, i.e. travelling in the direction the camera is pointed. It is not for keeping an ey out the back when travelling forwards. In fact I don't think they're even activated unless reverse is engaged.

I know how a reversing camera works, the clue is in the name! It only works in reverse!
Any good driver would use peripheral vision when driving and would not need to be looking at a monitor continuosly, to even suggest that is well you can fill in the blanks!!!!
This is a simple idea that could save lives and save €€€€'s on insurance.

yayamark

I drive a bike and car so i am appreciative towards the difficulties of both sets of drivers.

When im overtaking or on a motorway i stay outthere for as little time as possibe amd am constantly looking at the driver in the car im overtaking , constantly asking my self -Does he see me? Is he about to pull accross me?, Is it and old dear who could just pull accross me? Is it a delivery man who is going to suddenly pull in somewhere.

I dont think anyone can say rightly that bikers are crazy drivers. I ve seen crazy driving by both car and bike drivers.

People just have to be constantly aware of there surroundings.

To the Truck driver- Its a tough job u have and im sure you dont want to cream any one. Un fortunately its a work hazard for u driving such a big vehicle and having limited vision.

Driver education is the only we people will learn about these hazards.

Saab Ed

yayamark wrote: »

I drive a bike and car so i am appreciative towards the difficulties of both sets of drivers.

When im overtaking or on a motorway i stay outthere for as little time as possibe amd am constantly looking at the driver in the car im overtaking , constantly asking my self -Does he see me? Is he about to pull accross me?, Is it and old dear who could just pull accross me? Is it a delivery man who is going to suddenly pull in somewhere.

I dont think anyone can say rightly that bikers are crazy drivers. I ve seen crazy driving by both car and bike drivers.

People just have to be constantly aware of there surroundings.

To the Truck driver- Its a tough job u have and im sure you dont want to cream any one. Un fortunately its a work hazard for u driving such a big vehicle and having limited vision.

Driver education is the only we people will learn about these hazards.

Just to say , I dont for a minute think that bikers are bad drivers. It was just this one idiot who very nearly got himself killed.

Noopti

Traumadoc wrote: »

Were you changing lanes to drive your truck in the overtaking lane?

Good question.

Slig

Noopti wrote: »

Good question.

Indeed it is a very good question, and one we would all like to know the answer to so that some people can all attack the OP on a completely different topic just to demonstrate their superior knowledge of motoring.

Does this have to happen on every thread in the motors forum:mad:?

Saab Ed

Just want to clear this up. I was moving from lane 3 to 4 to overtake a car that was hogging lane 3. It was between the Lucan exit and Red cow exit southbound and I was perfectly within my rights to be there as the vehicle had a GVW of 3.5 tonnes (i.e B license) with a 14" box body on the back. No overtaking restrictions on that..

Noopti

Slig wrote: »

Indeed it is a very good question, and one we would all like to know the answer to so that some people can all attack the OP on a completely different topic just to demonstrate their superior knowledge of motoring.

Does this have to happen on every thread in the motors forum:mad:?

Perfectly legit question considering the OP was remonstrating about another drivers lack of road sense/knowledge. Anyway he has cleared it up now.


PS: And I hardly think knowing this particular rule of the road that the question was highlighting, demonstrates "superior knowledge of motoring".

Edit: Also this particular rule has a direct bearing on the original greivance, so it is not off topic.

Slig

Noopti wrote: »

Perfectly legit question considering the OP was remonstrating about another drivers lack of road sense/knowledge. Anyway he has cleared it up now.


PS: And I hardly think knowing this particular rule of the road that the question was highlighting, demonstrates "superior knowledge of motoring".

Excuse my scepticism but this happens everywhere in this forum

subway

Vertakill wrote: »

OP, tell me about it..

I've a car I can't even drive at the moment because of a biker who crashed into me while 'trying' to pull off an Evel Knievel type manouever. He got impatient waiting in a queue of cars behind me while I indicated to cross the traffic to go into a petrol station and nipped out from behind a car and tried to gun it down the middle of the road along a complete white line to then run into the back of me as he misjudged it.

So I've temporarily lost 4yrs NCB (until claim is finalised) all because of stupid impatient wreckless fckers.
Seeing as I'm 23 and driving a sports car, Quinn decided to nearly double my insurance next renewal and now that I've cancelled it, nobody will touch me as I've 0 NCB until Quinn take their finger out.

Quinn direct -vs- Czech biker + Czech reg plates + Czech insurance = 6 months later and nothing.... :rolleyes:


There seriously needs to be a more thorough/strict driving test or something for bikers than the current system. There's far too many on the road who have terrible road awareness when they're the ones who need to be permanently on their toes. Not to mention the complete lack of respect for other motorists that a lot (not all) of them display..

Makes my blood boil... :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

i think this whole thing of lumping all drivers of a particular vehicle into a category of dangerous/irreposonsible is self defeating.
we all drive vehicles, all of our vehiceles have certain advantages/disadvantages and we all need to be aware of them.

i think the OP raises a valid point for bikers, but its one thousands that need to be raised for all motorists.

BTW, i seen your reply so im not singling you out for taking a "bikers = bad" attitude, im picked up on it becuase i was a biker in the reverse of your situation.
while legally overtaking a line of stopped cars within the speed limit, one car driver decided to pull out without looking.
the impact wasnt too bad, i was only thrown around 15 feet (clear over the car) but the landing was so bad that i still dont, and probably wont ever, have proper use of my left arm.

hobochris

Vertakill wrote: »

OP, tell me about it..

I've a car I can't even drive at the moment because of a biker who crashed into me while 'trying' to pull off an Evel Knievel type manouever. He got impatient waiting in a queue of cars behind me while I indicated to cross the traffic to go into a petrol station and nipped out from behind a car and tried to gun it down the middle of the road along a complete white line to then run into the back of me as he misjudged it.

So I've temporarily lost 4yrs NCB (until claim is finalised) all because of stupid impatient wreckless fckers.
Seeing as I'm 23 and driving a sports car, Quinn decided to nearly double my insurance next renewal and now that I've cancelled it, nobody will touch me as I've 0 NCB until Quinn take their finger out.

Quinn direct -vs- Czech biker + Czech reg plates + Czech insurance = 6 months later and nothing.... :rolleyes:


There seriously needs to be a more thorough/strict driving test or something for bikers than the current system. There's far too many on the road who have terrible road awareness when they're the ones who need to be permanently on their toes. Not to mention the complete lack of respect for other motorists that a lot (not all) of them display..

Makes my blood boil... :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

don't hold your breath on that one for a while.

Quinn just settled a claim on my policy that happened a year and a month ago. Similar situation foreign truck driver didn't know which lane to go into before the toll bridge, decided he wanted to go into my lane, without indicating just side swiped me, ripped the side off the car, and back wheels went over the Bonett. car was wrote off. Luckily a garda attended the scene and declared on the spot it was the truck drivers fault(Even gave a written statement for the insurance co). my payments have gone from 160 a month to 70 now it is finally settled.

One thing I would say is wreck their heads about it as much as you can, I'm pretty sure Noel Brady (one of their main assessors) has regular nightmares about me.

Saab Ed

Ok ,no foreign driver or Quinn direct bashing here please. Thats not what this thread is about.

Noopti

Slig wrote: »

Excuse my scepticism but this happens everywhere in this forum

Understood. I have seen it happen too, but I did think the question was relevant to the argument, but not anymore now that the OP has cleared it up.

Back to the topic, I have had a few experiences where I would be constantly watching my mirrors and then just as I am about to do a maneuver (eg: overtake) there would suddenly be a motorcyclist right beside me. It actually gives you a shock and makes you wonder if you have been observing enough, but to be honest in all the cases I was observing correctly, it was just that the motorcylist wasn't driving in a way to ensure that those around him knew he was there. If that makes any sense.

hobochris

milltown wrote: »

I think most drivers, truckers included, have enough to be concentrating on without having to keep an eye on a monitor in the cab to see what's beside them. Don't you?

The reversing cameras are intended to be a main point of focus when reversing, i.e. travelling in the direction the camera is pointed. It is not for keeping an ey out the back when travelling forwards. In fact I don't think they're even activated unless reverse is engaged.

+1

they've a few extra gauges to keep an eye on that cars and bikes don't have either..

hobochris

Saab Ed wrote: »

Ok ,no foreign driver or Quinn direct bashing here please. Thats not what this thread is about.

no bashing intended. I'm simply advising based on my personal experience

milltown

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

I know how a reversing camera works, the clue is in the name! It only works in reverse!
Any good driver would use peripheral vision when driving and would not need to be looking at a monitor continuosly, to even suggest that is well you can fill in the blanks!!!!
This is a simple idea that could save lives and save €€€€'s on insurance.

As an educated biker you may have read the book " A twist of the wrist" by Keith Code. In it, he compares a rider's (or driver's) concentration to having an amount of money to spend, say $10. If you spend your ten bucks on what's straight ahead you have nothing left to notice the car coming out of the driveway, or the gap left in the traffic to allow someone turn right from a side road. It's a good analogy that extends well to truck and car driving, insofar as anything extra that needs your $ spent on it could cause you to miss something else. A truck driver will need to be mindful of what's happening farther ahead and plan well in advance due to the dangers of shifting loads, less manouverability, less grippy tyres etc. The OP's gripe was at the biker not having the good sense to move out of harm's way and I agree with him.

The golden rule, particularly on a bike, is if you can't see somebody in their mirrors, they can't see you.

A number of bikers seem to lack the basic self preservation instinct that all road users, and most roads, are out to kill them.

seanybiker

Slig wrote: »

Does this have to happen on every thread in the motors forum:mad:?

Thats the mad thing aboutt his place alright haha.


Anyways back on topic. It was obviously scary for the original poster, if it wasn't he wouldn't have posted this thread. I'm sure now with a truck about to body plant him that the biker in question is probably going to be more observant from now on. As a few other people have said that although thousands of motorists need to brush up on their ould driving/riding skills, it is the bikers that normally come off worse in an accident.
I know I did anyways, stupid bloody walls jumping out in front of me.

Ah feck it making sense isn't my forte. I'm going to have a little gander around the forums for something less thought is needed to reply. Take it cheesy lads and lassies.

Saab Ed

Really funny but the guy waved his fist and pointed at his mirrors as he went by as I was waving to say sorry. Not to worry , nobody hurt. If he's reading this then Happy Christmas .

subway

Saab Ed wrote: »

Really funny but the guy waved his fist and pointed at his mirrors as he went by as I was waving to say sorry. Not to worry , nobody hurt. If he's reading this then Happy Christmas .

well, in the heat of the moment, its nearly always someone elses fault, isnt it?
he was probably scared ****less and just thought "fecking truck nearly killed me"

hopefully he will have thought a little bit about the blind spots and realised that it wasnt lack of observation on your part, but the lack of anything to physically have the ability to observe

luckily no one was hurt so we can all get back to planning our turkey dinners

seanybiker

subway wrote: »

well, in the heat of the moment, its nearly always someone elses fault, isnt it?
he was probably scared ****less and just thought "fecking truck nearly killed me"

hopefully he will have thought a little bit about the blind spots and realised that it wasnt lack of observation on your part, but the lack of anything to physically have the ability to observe

luckily no one was hurt so we can all get back to planning our turkey dinners

I dont like turkey

vektarman

JackFrosty wrote: »

Gonna go slightly off track here,

I am a truck driver myself, and what really annoys me is,
When you pull in to let some one pass you and they dont even say thanks!

That really pisses me off!

Maybe they do say thanks, how can you hear them from the cab of a truck?

seanybiker

vektarman wrote: »

Maybe they do say thanks, how can you hear them from the cab of a truck?

He follows them to the next set of traffic lights then climbs out of the cab and asks them did they say something

subway

then enjoy whatever it is you eat

mikemac

Vertakill wrote: »

O
There seriously needs to be a more thorough/strict driving test or something for bikers than the current system. There's far too many on the road who have terrible road awareness when they're the ones who need to be permanently on their toes. Not to mention the complete lack of respect for other motorists that a lot (not all) of them display..

I'm not commenting on the OP's situation or even yours.
Just to say I find it hard to understand why you slam the motorbike testing system. Are you aware that when you get your full A license you are restricted for two years?
Do car drivers have a similar system? Well, actually they don't and they can drive their parents high-powered car even on a provisional license.

It's not an attack on anyone and maybe it was raised in Page 2 or 3. The motorbike system isn't perfect but it's a lot more restrictive then the car licensing system

ninty9er

The OP may not have seen the biker in his mirror, but had been been following proper driving awareness, he would have looked over his shoulder before pulling out. It's called checking the blindspot.

I do ever since I had a VERY close shave on the M7 3 years ago just after I'd passed my test. I missed a whole E-Class in the overtaking lane, and the poor guy had to perform a firm plant of the palm on the horn:o:o

It's not the biker's fault the OP didn't check the blindspot, lesson learned I hope.

Eoin

ninty9er wrote: »

The OP may not have seen the biker in his mirror, but had been been following proper driving awareness, he would have looked over his shoulder before pulling out. It's called checking the blindspot.

Yes, we know what it is called, but we don't know if it is even possible for the OP to do that. I wouldn't find it hard to believe that a trucker may not have the same view over his shoulder than a car driver.

badabinbadaboom

eoin wrote: »

Yes, we know what it is called, but we don't know if it is even possible for the OP to do that. I wouldn't find it hard to believe that a trucker may not have the same view over his shoulder than a car driver.

+1

Bikers should know not to hang around the side of a truck. The biker was either in a world of his own or not very experienced.

ninty9er

eoin wrote: »

Yes, we know what it is called, but we don't know if it is even possible for the OP to do that. I wouldn't find it hard to believe that a trucker may not have the same view over his shoulder than a car driver.

He's informed us it was a van based truck, Sprinter or similar with a hi-box stuck on the chassis. It is most certainly possible to glance right to check in one of those things.

peasant

ninty9er wrote: »

He's informed us it was a van based truck, Sprinter or similar with a hi-box stuck on the chassis. It is most certainly possible to glance right to check in one of those things.

Take a driving lesson in a similar truck and see for yourself what you can and can't see

Saab Ed

In response to ninty9er. A look over my shoulder would have got me a view of a window pillar , a boxbody and an aero kit. Just so you understand ,the motorbike was obscured by all of this , a rather large hindrance to my vision you might agree.....Try it yourself sometime and when you have a better understanding of the circumstances let us know how you got on.

Quint

Never mind a truck, i'm a biker and wouldn't dream of driving in the blind spot of a car! It's madness, and pretty sure there's even a bit about it in the ROTR.

ninty9er

Saab Ed wrote: »

In response to ninty9er. A look over my shoulder would have got me a view of a window pillar , a boxbody and an aero kit. Just so you understand ,the motorbike was obscured by all of this , a rather large hindrance to my vision you might agree.....Try it yourself sometime and when you have a better understanding of the circumstances let us know how you got on.

Can you clear up what kind of vehicle EXACTLY you were driving so. A Transit or Sprinter or anything you can drive on a B licence would give some sort of view into the blindspot by looking out the driver's window as you are required to do when overtaking during a driving test.

I have driven lengthy vehicles like a LWB sprinter, but not with an Aerobox on the back, and there is DEFINITIVELY a view into the blindspot by checking the driver's window.

EDIT: I'm not playing a blame game here btw, the biker should have been moving past as opposed to sitting in the overtaking lane NOT overtaking.

cabrwab

An Aerobox van would have the bits sticking out behind the drivers cab i think, im thinking of a pre 05 vw caddy van which has a horrible blind spot as the load area protrudes making the blind spot greater.
And throwing a look over your right shoulder in a van swb/lwb or even a car van does NOT give you a full view of your blind spot you still have a huge area and the only view you have is your mirrors, so maybe moving your head looking into your drivers side mirror will give you a more accurate view. But then your not concentrating on what is going on in front and other mirror!

While both parties are a little to blame, i think the bike sitting in the blind spot is an idiot and to try to tell the op to check his mirrors shows the bikers lack of experience driving something with more then 2 wheels.

While driving a bike will increase your knowledge of the road and motorcyclists tend to make better car drivers, but this is a generalisation that has plenty of people who prove it wrong too! i do think sometimes bikers and such should try driving a van/truck with the blind spots you encounter you'll learn quickly even on a motorway to finish your overtaking maneuver asap!

Lord Nikon

While we are now on the subject of trucks, could all truck drivers NOT overtake anything on any motorway, unless there is NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING travelling in the right lane of the motorway.

Listen, you may think that an extra 8km/h is enough of a speed to overtake another artic truck, IT IS NOT, it is just plain silly. Because the rest of us morons, are slamming on brakes behind you, and almost causing accidents.

Dr. Loon

neuromancer wrote: »

While we are now on the subject of trucks, could all truck drivers NOT overtake anything on any motorway, unless there is NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING travelling in the right lane of the motorway.

Listen, you may think that an extra 8km/h is enough of a speed to overtake another artic truck, IT IS NOT, it is just plain silly. Because the rest of us morons, are slamming on brakes behind you, and almost causing accidents.

Post of the year for me. Good work fella!