New Dublin Buses (Dec 2008 - Feb 2009)

Aquavid

101 new double-deck buses will be entering service in Dublin over the next few weeks. All are fleet-replacement (of 1997/1998 buses) rather than additional.

One is an experimental hybrid double-decker, which I believe is being launched by the Minister today. It is due to run on route 16, and will be easily spotted as it is dark green.

The one hundred standard double decks are:

50 Volvo B9TL/ADL Enviro 400 "EV" types buses (EV51-100) which follows on from a batch we had last year (the ones on the 3 for example).

50 Volvo B9TL/Wright Gemini "VG" type buses, (VG1-50) which are a new body type for Dublin, Bus Eireann is currently taking delivery of 10 similar buses.

These will probably be the last new buses for a while in the current climate, and we are only getting them because the orders were too far advanced in build to be cancelled. A further 50 double-decks due to be delivered straight after these have been put on indefinite hold.

16 of the VGs will be used to replace the Airlink fleet, which will be repainted and cascaded down to normal service.

All depots except Ringsend will be getting new double-deckers out of this batch of 101.

This should enable several busy routes to be coverted to full lowfloor operation - one of the candidates apparently is 25/25A.

As part of the cutbacks on spending in Dublin Bus, any of these new buses delivered after Jan 1st (i.e. 09 reg) will no longer have matching registration to fleet numbers (this was costing €1000 per bus).

Aquavid

BrianD

Aquavid wrote: »

As part of the cutbacks on spending in Dublin Bus, any of these new buses delivered after Jan 1st (i.e. 09 reg) will no longer have matching registration to fleet numbers (this was costing €1000 per bus).

it's unbelievable that somebody thought that it was justified to pay €1,000 per bus just so that a registration plate and a fleet number could match. Unbelievable. Ever heard ofa database?? Given that DB have over 1,000 buses in service this particularly piece of wastage in the public service could have cost up to €1m. How on earth was this signed off???

L1011

Until this year it cost €315, its costing €1000 from this year. Still an expense, but not of the magnitude it was going to be.

loyatemu

MYOB wrote: »

Until this year it cost €315, its costing €1000 from this year. Still an expense, but not of the magnitude it was going to be.

still a crazy expense - fine if it could be done for nothing, but otherwise a waste of money..

L1011

Agree with that; I suspect the tradition started when it was basically free (you needed a mate in the revenue to reserve a plate)...

Cookie_Monster

Any pics of the new shape of the green one anyone?

BendiBus

http://www.dublinbuses.com/wh1.html

Edit: Pics after decals applied

http://www.irishterminus.com/goingreen.htm

dowlingm

Dempsey claims Dublin has the Toyota Prius of buses...
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/1215/breaking49.htm

We'll see. Toronto's purchase of Orion-BAE Systems hybrid bus based on lead acid batteries was a disaster as the battery systems were lasting for only about a year, and while they were replaced under warranty the impact on operations has been very severe, including the need to rebuild 52 clapped out GM buses (there goes about 2.5m Euro) to cover the gap while the lead-acid units are ripped out and replaced with Lithium ion.

While the TTC was committed to buying more hybrids in 2009 and couldn't back out without penalty, they are going back to straight diesel in 2010. (PDF link)

The new Wrightbuses have Lithium batteries which hopefully will be better performers, but Toronto also found that even outside of the battery issue the fuel savings were well below projections - and they were only looking for 20%, not Dempsey's 33% and got about 10%.

It's important that DB select stop-go routes for the hybrids to maximise the potential benefits, especially since the fall in the oil price will reduce the operational savings which could be expected to offset the premium capital cost of hybrid units. Toronto's fleet planners made very weird calls on the first hybrid deliveries like putting them on airport express routes.

BendiBus

dowlingm wrote: »

It's important that DB select stop-go routes for the hybrids to maximise the potential benefits

Which is why the 16 is the perfect choice.

From what little I remember from reading about the Toronto experience, they made a complete bags of the project.

Victor

Aquavid wrote: »

16 of the VGs will be used to replace the Airlink fleet, which will be repainted and cascaded down to normal service.

Fair enough using new buses on a premium service, but I would have liked to see AW (articulated single deck) for airport work so (a) people aren't taking luggage upstairs and keep an eye on their luggage at the same time (b) it keeps them off the narrower city streets - Clare Street is hardly a suitable corner for them to negotiate.

ardmacha

Given that DB have over 1,000 buses in service this particularly piece of wastage in the public service could have cost up to €1m. How on earth was this signed off???

Who do you think gets the money only the public service?

Aquavid

You're right there - really just a transfer of money from one part of the public service to another, and DB need to keep their hands on their own budget now.

The practice started in 1965, and was free for a long long time until very recently.

Aquavid

ardmacha

This registration thing is designed to get some cash from people that want 08 D 911 for their Porsche or whatever. The revenue should just offer a lower fee for vehicles used for scheduled bus services.

dowlingm

Decal the number prominently on the front and side of the bus. End of.

pointofnoreturn

Will they have any means of a Real-Time timetable?, like Bus Eirreann are doing?,
Will they provide wifi onboard?

If I buy a ticket to Dublin Huston on the train, can i include my Airlink fair as well? more importantly can people rely on connections?

I've seen older buses with all this technologies in Europe, and they get more commuters using the service, more attractive service too, and it all just works!

Wast of our Tax money if these services aren't met! no excuses!

wayne2107

I would have liked to see AW (articulated single deck) for airport work so (a) people aren't taking luggage upstairs and keep an eye on their luggage at the same time

This was suggested before but lack of space at the airport stopped this. The bendys could of being a great Airlink.

Victor

pointofnoreturn wrote: »

Will they have any means of a Real-Time timetable?, like Bus Eirreann are doing?,

I don't know, its taking time as the companies have to do it from their own resources - the government won't fund it.

Will they provide wifi onboard?

Not really a priority. There are plentiful mobile phone based connections available in the city.

If I buy a ticket to Dublin Huston on the train, can i include my Airlink fair as well?

There is a DART and Airlink ticket, but I don't know if this extends to InterCity trains. http://www.dublinbus.ie/fares_and_tickets/other.asp#4

If you make this trip anyway regularly, buy a multi-day Dublin Bus ticket. I find the 5 Day Rambler Smartcard useful. For under €4 per day you can use any Dublin Bus service including AIRLINK and Xpresso (excluding Nitelink, Ferry Services, Tours and Special Events). It used to be a little book of one day tickets that you could share with your mates, but you need your own now.

more importantly can people rely on connections?

It is reasonably good. I would use the 748 as a preference of changing in the city centre or Busaras - the 90 has to make a bit of a detour to get from the Customs House to Connolly Station because of Luas C1 works. Many Airlink services use the Port Tunnel, so the worst part is the city centre. The bus lane from Heuston to the city centre is good.

markpb

wayne2107 wrote: »

This was suggested before but lack of space at the airport stopped this. The bendys could of being a great Airlink.

That's not true any more, lots of buses have moved to the atrium road so there's plenty of space outside the terminal building. Space outside Heuston isn't a problem so that just leaves Busaras. There's plenty of space outside Connolly at sheriff st if they need layover space.

AlekSmart

Its interesting to note that until very recently the RATP in Paris had a similar registration/fleet number correlation.
The Parisian Bus fleet had a registration system which was numerical only and which was also the fleet number.Far too simple for a wee hi-tech country like Ireland.

It`s also worth asking some questions about the current hybrid craze.
I believe its all far too much political grandstanding and not enough reality.

Several major German municipal undertakings recently revealed the results of their combined hybrid trials and it was pretty unimpressive.
None of the conurbations achieved anything like the savings promised by the various salespersons.
Higher maintenance and lower vehicle availability all combined to limit the effectivity of the Hybrids.

There is also a question mark over the sourcing of the Lithium required for the li-Ion batteries as it is sourced from only a single region high up in the Peruvian andes or somesuch.

It appears that the newly inflated desire for the stuff is leading to massive ecological pressure on the country`s eco system as the West tries to look clean at the expense of some poor native jungle inhabitant.

A 1000 + 1`s on the Airlink issue as it should be more than obvious by now that our traditional double deck setup is Waaay unsuitable for this specialized work.

Single Decks,be they large capacity or articulated are the answer to the specific needs of the Airport connection....it`s all about baggage...and unless Ryanair actually stage a coup out at Collinstown its something which will continue to plague Air Travel.

As for the other points raised concerning infrastructure....it`s obvious that Minister Dempsey got yet another easy ride from the assembled media...nobody asked him why not a single cent of Park N Ride funding has been drawn down for the Dublin region.

Nobody asked him why,if the City Council and the Metro North Team are crying out for large scale increases in Bus Based Public Transport in the City,he as Minister seems to believe we actually have enough resources and has got a well respected Accountancy and Consultancy firm to support his assertions....
Result...mass confusion and the withdrawal of perfectly servicable 1997+ vehicles which could continue to provide the emergency service level which the planning professionals are calling for.

What a shower of wasters.... :cool:

KC61

markpb wrote: »

That's not true any more, lots of buses have moved to the atrium road so there's plenty of space outside the terminal building. Space outside Heuston isn't a problem so that just leaves Busaras. There's plenty of space outside Connolly at sheriff st if they need layover space.

Have you been at the Airport recently?

Given that there are frequently two and sometimes three Airlinks lined up at the Airport along with a 16A or 746, and an inbound 41 loading, I wouldn't agree that there is "plenty of space" - that takes up all the space available.

Aircoach have the licence for the terminal kerbside, so the only space available for Dublin Bus is the current island terminus.

There really is not the space for the articulated buses.

markpb

KC61 wrote: »

Have you been at the Airport recently?

I have, several times lately and anytime I've been there, the only problems DB experienced were entirely of their own making. If you decide to park an out of service bus at a bus stop, you can't complain when incoming buses can't load/unload. This applies equally on the outside atrium road where out of service 102s regularly park in the 41 bus stop.

Why does the 16A still load from right outside the terminal building anyway? Express buses should be the only buses outside the front door (and even then, only ones actually loading or unloading). Local buses should be further away to discourage tourists from using them, especially tourists with luggage.

KC61

The buses on the 16A/102 are laying over between journeys for max. 15 minutes. They have to park somewhere and the Airport Authorities have not given DB an alternative location.

The system changed so that city bound buses go from outside the Airport terminal and buses for elsewhere from the far side of the atrium. It works well, and avoids all the confusion with Swords bound buses that used to prevail, so why change it again?

Sean9015

pointofnoreturn wrote: »

Will they have any means of a Real-Time timetable?, like Bus Eirreann are doing?,

Dublin Bus have placed an order with Init, of Karlsruhe in Germany, for an AVL system which includes the provision for feeding real time information.

http://www.init-ka.de/en/news/newsmeldung.php?id=211

There is a system of this from this supplier running in the east midlands of England - www.star-trak.co.uk

<Edit> Does anyone know the supplier of the Bus Eireann system?

noelfirl

Sean9015 wrote: »

Dublin Bus have placed an order with Init, of Karlsruhe in Germany, for an AVL system which includes the provision for feeding real time information.

http://www.init-ka.de/en/news/newsmeldung.php?id=211

There is a system of this from this supplier running in the east midlands of England - www.star-trak.co.uk

<Edit> Does anyone know the supplier of the Bus Eireann system?

I noticed something like the PIDmobil display mentioned on that site on a Dublin Bus a week back, hanging from the ceiling downstairs pretty much over the "Do not cross this line" line, twasn't on, but I assume that's what's going to be put onto 150 of the buses. Looked like it had space for a single line of text. Just as long as it says something useful and not just "Bus stopping"...

LiamD

Aquavid wrote: »

All depots except Ringsend will be getting new double-deckers out of this batch of 101.

Does anyone know what the breakdown of Ringsend's fleet is? This garage seems to have a lot of non low floor buses on it's routes. I think I recall hearing that they took a load of 98 or 99 D non low floor buses from another garage recently.

pointofnoreturn

Sean9015 wrote: »

<Edit> Does anyone know the supplier of the Bus Eireann system?

They went for Seimens VDO, now Continental VDO. you can see the Siemens boxes in most of their buses, they have a Web Service displaying the information Real Time Bus Information sms system their too, but can't see that been used much.

They mention their plans in 2007 in a report http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1217247682-BE-AR07-EN-pics.pdf
It's taken them some time thought, but their is no mention of a display at each stop, which is really needed as the use of SMS is very vague and how is one to remember the SMS code of every!! stop!

In any case we can only hope that they integrate these AVL systems with all the other operators. like in Europe if you have to make connections the RT timetable knows that X amount of passengers are to make connections to further services, they call it TCP in the industry (Transfer Connection Protection) where services that are late or early can make slight changes to their times in order to facilitate passengers connections

bk

pointofnoreturn wrote: »

They mention their plans in 2007 in a report http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1217247682-BE-AR07-EN-pics.pdf
It's taken them some time thought, but their is no mention of a display at each stop, which is really needed as the use of SMS is very vague and how is one to remember the SMS code of every!! stop!

I disagree, in a few years time, almost everyone will have mobile phones with high quality web browsing abilities, like the iPhone.

Therefore there is no need for expensive displays. Just a simple sign indicating the web site to go to to check the arrival time, or the sms code to enter.

KC61

LiamD wrote: »

Does anyone know what the breakdown of Ringsend's fleet is? This garage seems to have a lot of non low floor buses on it's routes. I think I recall hearing that they took a load of 98 or 99 D non low floor buses from another garage recently.

Total Ringsend Fleet - 118 Buses

Low Floor Fleet - 85 Buses
AV/AX Class (Alexander Bodied Volvo ALX400) - 68
EV Class (Volvo B9TL/ADL Enviro 400) - 8
WV Class (Wright Bodied Volvo B6BLE Midibus) - 9

Non-Low Floor Fleet - 33 Buses
RV Class (Volvo Olympian) - 33

Other older non-low floor buses were withdrawn from service earlier this year in Ringsend and replaced by 10 1999 RV Class buses.

pointofnoreturn

bk wrote: »

I disagree, in a few years time, almost everyone will have mobile phones with high quality web browsing abilities, like the iPhone.

Therefore there is no need for expensive displays. Just a simple sign indicating the web site to go to to check the arrival time, or the sms code to enter.

It's like what Irish Rail said http://www.irishrail.ie/home/faq.asp?faq_id=11#11

We feel customers would be better supported by obtaining their own wireless solutions, such as those provided by the mobile providers (3G and GPRS/EDGE ).
IÉ is hoping that near-future new technologies such as WiMax and other long range wireless tech will make the idea of onboard solutions redundant. We will continue to monitor the speed of advance of such technologies and if we deem that change is not occurring quickly enough we may reconsider the situation.

Why do we Irish sit around waiting for things to come and always playing catch and not just be in the latests of anything!!
We are basically too slow in this country implementing technology, we question our selves all the time about "if it's worth it or not... etc ..etc" the fact is we should have this done yesterday,

I'm not saying displays at every stop! but at the most busiest, stations mostly.

Sean9015

bk wrote: »

I disagree, in a few years time, almost everyone will have mobile phones with high quality web browsing abilities, like the iPhone.

Therefore there is no need for expensive displays. Just a simple sign indicating the web site to go to to check the arrival time, or the sms code to enter.

There is need for both. I disagree that all will have fancy webphones any time soon. I won't for one - my phone makes calls, sends texts, and that's it. That's all I want and need. My last phone didn't even have a colour display - and is still in use when I return to the UK even though it is over five years old. However good the web facilities, the basic problem of the size of the display remains.

Stop displays not only provide information to passengers, they give an air of permanence to the service, and can be a marketing tool to non-users.

As regards the SMS, most users would use a small number of stops in the main, so would only have a few codes to remember. When I used the Star Trak system, I had my local codes saved as draft merssages, so I didn't actually have to remember them at all.

Real time information is becoming widespread in the UK, as operators realise the benefits the AVL system can give them, but it has taken a long time to get there given the regulatory set up of on-street competition, with data protection issues (most systems in the UK are operated by the PTEs / local authorities, rather than the operators of national government), together with system compatability issues (there is still no single standard, although there are protocols for exchanging data between systems) being major problems. For example, does a bus have to be able to "talk" to several different systems, often using different radio systems; or does the bus talk to a "home" system, and data transfer take place at system level? For the former, more on-bus kit is needed; for the latter, radio coverage can become an issue unless GPRS or similar is used. Most systems to date in the UK have used private radio systems however, as the amount of data on a large system is high.

The regulatory set up here allows better integration, but with the usual problem of access to the system by non-CIE companies. This is probably why they are being self-funded, rather than governement funded; it avoid the whole state aid / non PSO arguement. It will however mean that other operators may have difficulty getting access to the system, which is a problem for the bus user.

dowlingm

This week Toronto is rolling out a GPS solution by Gray Line Systems. There will be LCD screens at enclosed stations, LED displays at high traffic stops and SMS codes at low traffic stops.

patrickc

Conyngham road seem to have gotten loads of the new EV's, a lot of the 151's and it seems the majority of the 68/69's are the new buses, will they use the old ax's and av's on the 78a route now ? does anyone know?

BendiBus

patrickc wrote: »

Conyngham road seem to have gotten loads of the new EV's, a lot of the 151's and it seems the majority of the 68/69's are the new buses, will they use the old ax's and av's on the 78a route now ? does anyone know?

I've noticed a significant increase in the number of AVs on the 78A.

Keith186

BendiBus wrote: »

http://www.dublinbuses.com/wh1.html

What's the bar for on the outside of the bus. Looks like one you'd hold onto on the inside?

1st Pic - on front corner, silver.

patrickc

BendiBus wrote: »

I've noticed a significant increase in the number of AVs on the 78A.

all ive seen is the old rv's this week

Keith186 wrote: »

What's the bar for on the outside of the bus. Looks like one you'd hold onto on the inside?

1st Pic - on front corner, silver.

it's design thing, looks handy for an emergency escape though to climb down on

L1011

Keith186 wrote: »

What's the bar for on the outside of the bus. Looks like one you'd hold onto on the inside?

Deflects overhanging trees/shrubbery.

Keith186

MYOB wrote: »

Deflects overhanging trees/shrubbery.

Good idea, I was on one before where the window was put in by a branch. Glass shattered everywhere and people were licky they didn't get hit in the eye with flying glass.

L1011

So have I!

Notice its fitted to one side only, its anything but decorative due to breaking the symmetry, its there for a purpose...