What punishment can he expect?

LegacyUser

I have a really good friend who the following happened to. Was speeding home from work one evening and the guards came up behind him. He drove off and speed up until he pulled in down the road another bit. Was arrested and spent three hours in custody. Already has four penalty points. Also he is planning on going to Australia coz he knows he won't be able to work here. Will this affect him? Anyone in the know have any idea what punishment he will get realistically?

Victor

He really needs to talk to a solicitor.

Expect points and a fine if the gardaí are feeling lenient. A minimum of conviction, points and a big fine if they aren't. Trying to escape is definitely an aggravating factor.

Traffic offences usually aren't taken into account for visas, but he needs to check this out - Australia has come down hard on traffic ofences in the last few years.

Toots

I couldn't guess what sort of punishment he can expect here. As for his Australian visa application, you have to declare any criminal convictions when you're making your application. Then it will be up to Immigration to decide whether or not to grant him a visa. I can't imagine the fact that he tried to outrun the Gardai will do him any favours. As Victor said, his best bet is getting in touch with a solicitor.

Jammyc

Hope it all works out well for him.

As said before, talk to a solicitor,

Also, admin, should this thread not be here? http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=633

passive

Jammyc wrote: »

Hope it all works out well for him.

wait? what? why? why did the guy drive away from the gardaí, nevermind why he was intentionally speeding in the first place?

jane86

Jammyc wrote: »

Hope it all works out well for him.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=633

Why? It's one thing to be speeding but to drive off on the Gardai was pretty stupid IMO.

Rosita

Toots85 wrote: »

I couldn't guess what sort of punishment he can expect here. As for his Australian visa application, you have to declare any criminal convictions when you're making your application. Then it will be up to Immigration to decide whether or not to grant him a visa. I can't imagine the fact that he tried to outrun the Gardai will do him any favours. As Victor said, his best bet is getting in touch with a solicitor.

Most offences under the road traffic act do not normally qualify as criminal convictions. Drink driving/putting people's lives in danger/killing someone in an accident would attract a criminal conviction but failing to display a valid tax disc wouldn't for example.

I would be very surprised if this one could be proved to be a criminal act.

Rosita

passive wrote: »

wait? what? why? why did the guy drive away from the gardaí, nevermind why he was intentionally speeding in the first place?

Because not everyone has impeccable judgement when under pressure and folk do silly things.

Cabaal

Given he was speeding and then he drove off when they attempt to pull him over, I woul;d personally hope they hit him with everything they can within the law for that kind of stupid carry on.

Your friend really needs to be speaking to a solicitor and not asking people to post on some forum for advise on such a serious issue.

passive

Rosita wrote: »

Because not everyone has impeccable judgement when under pressure and folk do silly things.

Yeah, I don't have impeccable judgement. I often make foolish choices in my personal life. It occasionally warrants posts here . I don't, however, put my life and others at risk by breaking the speed limit and then going faster again when being pursued by the police. 'cos that's insane.

And if I did; I would hope the advice I receive from all decent people is "suck it up. Don't do that again."

Rosita

passive wrote: »

I don't, however, put my life and others at risk by breaking the speed limit and then going faster again when being pursued by the police. 'cos that's insane.

Yoru description of events seems to have upped the ante from the original description which was: "Was speeding home from work one evening and the guards came up behind him. He drove off and speed up until he pulled in down the road another bit."

It is not clear how lives were put in specific danger, (once you start a car off at all, you are techniucally putting lives in danger - driving at 51kms in a 50 zone hardly chages the odds dramatically if we are honest) or that it was a high-speed chase in the sense that you are depicting it. In fact, it is not even clear from the original post that he realised he was being pulled over in the first instance and that it was incumbent on him to stop. Who knows what happened?

There are some ludricuous speed-limits out there. For example, 50kms on a long stretch of the Naas dual carriageway and 30kms on the Navan Road, which any ordinary driver would be likely to break without realising it. (The guards themselves certainly laughably disregard them) Perhaps this was such a case?

If the authorities seriously believe that such offences "put lives in danger" then they should make driving at 31kms in a 30km zone a criminal offence punishable by imprisonment. But for some reason they don't.

What I am saying is that the situation may not be as black and white as you make out.

passive

Rosita wrote: »

Yoru description of events seems to have upped the ante from the original description which was: "Was speeding home from work one evening and the guards came up behind him. He drove off and speed up until he pulled in down the road another bit."

It is not clear how lives were put in specific danger, (once you start a car off at all, you are techniucally putting lives in danger - driving at 51kms in a 50 zone hardly chages the odds dramatically if we are honest) or that it was a high-speed chase in the sense that you are depicting it. In fact, it is not even clear from the original post that he realised he was being pulled over in the first instance and that it was incumbent on him to stop. Who knows what happened?

"Was speeding home from work one evening" = "breaking the speed limit" (knowingly, it seems)
"the guards came up behind him. He drove off and speed up" = "going faster again when being pursued by the police"

I upped nothing.

you, on the other hand, turned

"going faster again when being pursued by the police" into "a high-speed chase"

And there's no real room for maneuver in the OPs post. The driver knew they were speeding, whatever their motivation, then, they went faster when the guards signaled them to stop. I'm not even going to make the obvious infernal that they were trying to get away.

Jammyc

passive wrote: »

wait? what? why? why did the guy drive away from the gardaí, nevermind why he was intentionally speeding in the first place?

Tbh I was saying it in relation to him going to Australia, we can all do silly things, and if he broke the law he deserves to be punished but if he wants to go to Australia, I wish him well. Im not hoping he evades the law

RedXIV

My dad's a traffic cop and from pervious experience being caught speeding would have gotten the points and fine with a big "case closed" stamp on it. But driving away was a really bad move. It really pisses my dad off when people do that so don't expect too much leniancy. Going to Australia for work is tricky enough, with convictions it could be harder but i can't tell you for sure what to expect. I'm sure there are far more knowledgable people than me here to answer these queries

Victor

Can we stay on topic that is the likely implications and how to deal with them?

LegacyUser

OP here. First of all thanks for you help. He did not ask me to post on here for him, I am doing it myself because i don't even think he can afford a solicitor so was trying to get some honest advice.
Yes from what he tells me he drove off and was knowingly speeding in the first place. I didn't come on here looking for sympathy as this guy has a habit of messing things up for himself and he is the first person to know that. I am disappointed in him and i know his two brothers are too. And yes i would say that it was a high speed chase as he drove on for a while before he pulled in and he didnt slow down when he saw the guards behind him in the first place.
He says he doesn't know what came over him to drive off on the guards. He is an impulsive guy by nature and has told me before he is messed up in the head but it doesn't bother him too much up till now i'd say as he always said "im messed up but im happy, no point feeling down over it."
Does he have any hope without a solicitor as i know for a fact he can't afford one? He has loans on cars and things and he is on a poor wage??
Believe me, I agree he deserves what is coming to him as it will take something like this to get him to cop on so whatever punishment he gets he deserves but as i said i was coming on here to ask what kind of punishment he could expect as he can't afford a solicitor to find out.

Rosita

passive wrote: »

"Was speeding home from work one evening" = "breaking the speed limit" (knowingly, it seems)
"the guards came up behind him. He drove off and speed up" = "going faster again when being pursued by the police"

I upped nothing.

you, on the other hand, turned

"going faster again when being pursued by the police" into "a high-speed chase"

And there's no real room for maneuver in the OPs post. The driver knew they were speeding, whatever their motivation, then, they went faster when the guards signaled them to stop. I'm not even going to make the obvious infernal that they were trying to get away.

WIth respect to the moderator's request for people to deal with only the actual topic raised I will make this observation and say no more to you.

You say there is "no room for manouevre" in the OP's story, yet you are in fact making up stuff that wasn't in there at all. The OP does not say that "the Guards signalled them to stop" in the first instance. Those are your words, not the OP's.

That - if we can draw obvious inferences from the fact that it wasn't mentioned - would be a critical mitigating factor if the case was up in court.

There are barrister paid bagfuls of money to find room for manouvere.

RedXIV, is in my experience of courts (through my work) quite correct that a huge amount of very minor road traffic offences (same with public order offences) end up in court because someone pissed off the guards - who often aggravate situations with a bad attitude when they show up - rather than because they are intrinsically significant offences.

But like I said, I still fail to see how you conisder from the OP's description how lives were put in danger but anyway I'll leave it to people to actually answer the original question now that the moral police have had their say.

Funkyzeit

Rosita wrote: »

Because not everyone has impeccable judgement when under pressure and folk do silly things.

More like an imbeciles judgment in this case....deserves all he gets...