Irish Runner: Olympic Roundup

DangerMouse27

Hey all
Just wanted to gauge what everyone thought of the Irish Runner Athlete round up.Seemed a bit self serving to me.Derval O'Rourke declined to talk which was surprizing and David Gillick used excuse 101,the ol mystery virus! Gillick bottled it,the after race analysis of Kiernan, Coglan showed that his mind was elsewhere.He was in his gear 15 mins before the race started while Wariner was still keeping warm up until called to his blocks.Also he seemed to be the only one giving out about the travel arrangements etc.
This isnt a Gillick rant, i just expected a more critical look at our athletes from the Irish Runner.
Fair????

thirtyfoot

DangerMouse27 wrote: »

Hey all
Just wanted to gauge what everyone thought of the Irish Runner Athlete round up.Seemed a bit self serving to me.Derval O'Rourke declined to talk which was surprizing and David Gillick used excuse 101,the ol mystery virus! Gillick bottled it,the after race analysis of Kiernan, Coglan showed that his mind was elsewhere.He was in his gear 15 mins before the race started while Wariner was still keeping warm up until called to his blocks.Also he seemed to be the only one giving out about the travel arrangements etc.
This isnt a Gillick rant, i just expected a more critical look at our athletes from the Irish Runner.
Fair????

The gear comment is a joke to be honest. I saw LaShawn Merritt in his gear 15 mins before the final with Wariner still warming up. We know how that ended. Did you see what Bolt was wearing before his finals? Kiernan and Coghlan are not the best guys to be commenting on the short stuff. Coghlan is particular is not the most insighfull (especially his talk about the baton changing:rolleyes:). Kiernan will give many questions, but feck all answers.

Robbie Heffernan was pretty damning of the travel arrangements and had to book his own flights. As for the virus thing and the remarks regarding excuse 101, a suppose Gillick or his coach or doctor is the only man who can answer that and if anyone saw his interview straight afterwards they would have felt for the man, he just didn't know what happened. Jaysus, if that wasn't a Gillick rant, I'd hate to see one that was:eek: He is hurting bad and that to me is a good thing, some were merely happy to be there, not Gillick I'd reckon.

What is the negativity against Gillick, O' Rourke etc? I was at Cork City 2 years ago and when Gillick faulted and was DQ'ed there were laughs and sneers in the crowd from people who should know better, just can't understand that Sorry, this has turned into a pro-Gillick rant.

Irishathlete_1

I haven't read the Irish Runner yet, I will have that pleasure (sic) over the weekend.

With reference to the points made above, a number of athlete's in Beijing warmed up in shorts and vests due to the heat. As Tingle pointed out, this went as far as Bolt who warmed up in knee length shorts/sleeveless vest, while the majority of athletes walked from the call room in their compitition uniform, so would have been dressed like that for 15-20 minutes. If you were track side in Beijing you would understand how oppressive the heat was.

I would tend to trust Gillick's reasoning. Since 2006 in Sweden he has always been honest and brutal with the press about his performances, so I don't see why this would be any different. If you remember on the day he offered no excuse, his words were something like "No excuses, I didn't turn up today". If there were subsequent medical tests to show he had a virus, then fair enough.

O'Rourke is an entirely different matter. She is now reapping what she so richly sowed since her win in Moscow. Her arrogance and petulance towards coaches, managers, sponsors and fellow athletes when she was on her way up, has seen her crash on her way down. It is a pity as she could have been a good role model for the sport, however, anyone who has seen her when the cameras are not around will know what I am referring to. This girl is finished. She will never return to PB form in my opinion.

I look forward to reading the piece!

Running Bing

Irishathlete_1 wrote: »

O'Rourke is an entirely different matter. She is now reapping what she so richly sowed since her win in Moscow. Her arrogance and petulance towards coaches, managers, sponsors and fellow athletes when she was on her way up, has seen her crash on her way down. It is a pity as she could have been a good role model for the sport, however, anyone who has seen her when the cameras are not around will know what I am referring to. This girl is finished. She will never return to PB form in my opinion.

I look forward to reading the piece!

Interesting, I always got that impression without ever seeing evidence of it. Why did she refuse to do an interview?


I thought the interview's themselves could've been a bit more in depth focusing more on the athletes individual preparation and races they took part in rather than a short list of very obvious generic questions.

I just feel they could've been a lot more insightful but I did enjoy reading it and felt it was a good idea for feature....just could've been realised a small bit better.

thirtyfoot

Irishathlete_1 wrote: »

O'Rourke is an entirely different matter. She is now reapping what she so richly sowed since her win in Moscow. Her arrogance and petulance towards coaches, managers, sponsors and fellow athletes when she was on her way up, has seen her crash on her way down. It is a pity as she could have been a good role model for the sport, however, anyone who has seen her when the cameras are not around will know what I am referring to. This girl is finished. She will never return to PB form in my opinion.

Maybe its a Cork thing. Roy Keane, Stephen Ireland, County hurlers........:D

I've seen her when the cameras were off and I think she is fine. Yes, the persona on camera is different to the in person one, but I'd prefer the in person one as thats the more genuine one. Maybe her game day persona is different (and how bad if it is, you don't want busy fools pottering around you on race day) but when training in Santry she will always be pretty low key and just getting on with it and mixing with all the other athletes of many ages. When I met her first she was a self-confessed drama queen who is up for a bit of craic and now these days still is.

Regarding arrogance and petulance to coaches, her relationship with her current coach seems pretty good from observing and they get on well, always having a bit of banter while working hard. Her previous coach, while a great coach and probably one of the best in europe technically, always suffered on the people side of things (as in he wasn't very good at it). If you weren't one of his favourites, working in his group was always hard. Despite being his most successfull athlete, she was never his 'favourite'. Many athletes in that group who weren't the 'favourite' left as when times got bad you would be less loyal to the coach. Not saying thats the reason she left that coach but its a factor why others did and may be a factor there. There is more to coaching than technique and program writing, an athlete needs to know you believe in them.

Regarding arrogance and petulance to managers, no harm there, they are by and large amateurs on a junket. To fellow athletes, well, I know many who like her. Sponsors, don't know anyone in Spar.

I think she is great, bit cocky perhaps and that may lead to certain perceptions with some people but endear you to others, but if you know her she is down to earth, good craic, won't suffer fools and just normal really. Maybe it is a Cork thing.......

Will she ever PB again, its hard to know. I'd love it if she did as she has a big game mentality only matched by Hesh at the moment.

Irishathlete_1

Sorry I didn't go into more depth earlier, but busy day at the office!

In my opinion O'Rourke over achieved in a very poor year (2006). If you look at her times when pb'ing in Sweden it would not get her even close to medals, or indeed finals, at most major global championships. You look at Kallur etc..., and they can move on to another level when they have to on a world stage. I don't believe O'Rourke can.

I would discount Beijing as it was a freak event with the British girl Claxton qualifying for the final!

If you look at Osaka last year the slowest qualifier ran a 12.68, which is about standard qualification over the last 4 years for events on a world level. There is nothing wrong with being a medalist in Europe and a semi-finalist on the world stage, but why all the BS of touting yourself for a medal, when you realistically have no chance at all? I know you will come back with having self confidence etc...but there needs to be some reality about having self confidence. Will Paul Hession ever think he can win a medal at a world/olympic games over 200m? No, will he ever think he can make a final, yes. Will he make a final? Possibly. That would be realistic goal setting. If you persist with the BS you will set yourself up for a huge fall.

I witnessed one incident with O'Rourke at a Leinster schools T&F champs in Santry which honestly made me speechless. The arrogance (not confidence) was disgusting.

Her current coach, Sean Cahill, is a very nice man who is a decent (but unproven) coach. When I have seen her with him it is very much the tail wagging the dog. Interestingly, neither Kilty or Malcolm Arnold would put up with behaviour like that, and she is left both coaches.

I don't want this to turn into a O'rourke love/hate thread, as I stated before, she could be a great role model and she could be very succesful as an athlete.

I know it was a tongue in cheek comment, but to compare O'Rourke to Roy Keane is just mind blowing! One of the greatest Irish sports people in history against someone who had 1 successful year.

Cork Hurlers....now you are probably getting closer!!

thirtyfoot

Irishathlete_1 wrote: »

I witnessed one incident with O'Rourke at a Leinster schools T&F champs in Santry which honestly made me speechless. The arrogance (not confidence) was disgusting.

I'm disappointed something like that happened.

Irishathlete_1 wrote: »

.. Interestingly, neither Kilty or Malcolm Arnold would put up with behaviour like that, and she is left both coaches.

Don't know Arnold apart from the legends he coached but Kilty never ruled his groups with an iron fist of discipline. Much of her fall from in your eyes was under his watch. Its doubtfull he would have done anything about it if he saw a problem. Just personal opinion and observances down through the years. I like him and think he is very good, but reeling in an athlete getting too big for her boots when she was his big meal ticket is unlikely to have happened. Then again, it may have.

Cork/Keane comment was tongue in cheek:D

Probably best if we don't go into the personalities too much as it may get dodgy!

runjb

There was nothing too poor about 2006 regarding hurdling, Derval won her WORLD TITLE fair and square. As for the Europeans she showed what a real gutsy athlete she is to be able to pull a huge performance like that on such a huge stage, something most of our other star athelets can't do.
As for Beijing, there was something wrong, she talked about the inhalers she was on leading up to the race, so obviously everything wasn't right.
I think she is a great role model for our sport, young kids love her and she is always helping to promote worthy events. Her personality can be slightly cocky or brass but I like her for that, for having that real competitive and gutsy nature that is needed.

Some people on this board are so criticising, when they have won a world title let them come back on and criticise other athletes.

And people have every right to compare her to Roy Keane, she is one of Ireland's best ever athletes.

Watch her for 2009, I can see her at least winning a medal in teh European Indoors, a good bet for the gold.

Milesandmiles

Well said Tingle and runjb. Derval is a committed and professional athlete. She's well regarded by the other international athletes and she's a role model for younger kids... particularly girls in a country where there are precious few high profile women in any sport. Certainly she's feisty but that's what makes her good. To question her achievements in 2006 is just plain wrong.

Though I haven't posted before I've been lurking on this board for a couple of months. The spirit of some of the posts on this thread are very negative and in total contrast to the spirit of the board. It's not out of bounds to question the performance of our international athletes but let's not get personal!

Best of luck to everybody in 2009

thirtyfoot

Milesandmiles wrote: »

Well said Tingle and runjb. Derval is a committed and professional athlete. She's well regarded by the other international athletes and she's a role model for younger kids... particularly girls in a country where there are precious few high profile women in any sport. Certainly she's feisty but that's what makes her good. To question her achievements in 2006 is just plain wrong.

Though I haven't posted before I've been lurking on this board for a couple of months. The spirit of some of the posts on this thread are very negative and in total contrast to the spirit of the board. It's not out of bounds to question the performance of our international athletes but let's not get personal!

Best of luck to everybody in 2009

Good post.

Feisty is a good description. Some people can be intimidated by a feisty woman while others love it. It may be a case here of those who dislike her.

I like the feisty ones. I'm married to a feisty one myself, keeps me on my toes and makes life more interesting:pac:

thirtyfoot

runjb wrote: »

And people have every right to compare her to Roy Keane, she is one of Ireland's best ever athletes

Was thinking about this one and and I think I agree with irishathlete_1. There is no comparison. Derv is in Santry most days these days, putting it in and working hard, on her hands and knees on the track after runs in the thick of winter training. Its been a tough two years and it must be hard. Once the darling of our media (in fact she still is, I predict a future in sports presentation when she eventually retires:cool:), her star may have waned but she hasn't given up. She is sucking it up and working hard and hopefully proof that the sign of a true winner is the person who can come back from true adversity and climb back to where she was, fingers crossed. Meanwhile, over at the circus that is The Stadium of Light, Keano has walked when the times got hard, again:D (I wonder will we see as many Irish head over now, I'd say the marketing brochures are being changed as we speak - cross out Ireland and replace with whatever country the next manager is from:eek:). Maybe DOR was right when she said a few years back that when it comes to sport "that unless you really love it, it will eventually find you out".

Disclaimer: All of the above is a p*ss-take, except for the bit that we all hope DOR bounces back (and probably the circus bit too) :D:D:D Excessive smiliys to emphasize joke.

DangerMouse27

Jeez....i guess i didnt mean to sound so negative but my general gripe was to Irish Runner and how it seemed to let O'Rourke off the hook.Next issues 'critical' review is by the Irish team manager Patsy McGonagle so i shouldnt expect much from that.
David Gillick...i guess i was just as dissapointed in his performance amid the expectation.To see his stablemate Martyn Rooney turning world class must be tough but to see where my gripe came to DG,watch his youtube video of 'I AM...GILLICK'.

Racing Flat

DangerMouse27 wrote: »

my general gripe was to Irish Runner and how it seemed to let O'Rourke off the hook.
David Gillick...i guess i was just as dissapointed in his performance amid the expectation.

When you say 'off the hook' I'd rather them do this than go the way of say some of the English press which had e.g. back pages with the word FAILURE in relation to some of their Olympians this year in the early stages, or similar when a football team underperforms.

I think it's up to the athlete themselves to criticise themselves mostly. And they won't commonly do this straight after competition. Must be too hard to face up to it, in the midst of severe disppointment, or perhaps they need a cooling off period before they can sit back and analyse it.

You often see immediately post poor Olympic performance the athlete saying they 'must have had a virus' (e.g. Paula Radcliffe) or 'had a bug' and they leave it at that. Sonia's recent book was revealing, saying how she ruined her chances in 96 in the run up over the year - overtraining, so there was nothing left by the time she got to the start line. I can't remember what she said at the time in 96, but I'd doubt if she said once she got off the track 'I overtrained'. Similary I imagine in a few years time yiou might get a different story from teh athletes to explain their performances.

Personally I found it interesting how most of the athletes who did reasonably well seemed to think it was a good experience and preparation, whereas those who did not so well were more inclined to bash the preparations. A results based industry! This to me suggests a lack of responsibility - blaming someone else. Take responsibility, plan your own preparations, so you have no one else to blame, no ready made excuse. I think some of the athletes who made their own way there form that point of view should be commended and possibly reaped the rewards.