The 35,000 Euro Question.....

toomevara

To whit; is Dan Carter worth that much every time he turns out for Perpignan? And what effect is this sort of scenario gong to exert on the game/comp long term?

He's making his first appearance for USAP today against Leicester..(a baptism of fire if ever there was one). But does anyone else feel a bit uncomfortable about the whole scenario?

Carter is a genius and a pleasure to watch, but, imo, parachuting the guy in mid-season for an astronomical fee, marks a disturbingly unhealthy development for rugby.

Is it time to consider salary caps? Restrictions on player movements mid-season? I realise the Toulon fiasco has shown that throwing oodles of money at a team, does not a winning recipe make, but I can't help myself hoping that USAP's Carter experiment doesn't work....

Junior

toomevara wrote: »

Is it time to consider salary caps? Restrictions on player movements mid-season? I realise the Toulon fiasco has shown that throwing oodles of money at a team, does not a winning recipe make, but I can't help myself hoping that USAP's Carter experiment doesn't work....

It reminds me of soccer in the 70's and 80's where the likes of Star english players turned up over here for a few games in the LOI and got handsome sums, also the likes of besty, pele etc turning up stateside for the beginnings of MLS. It shines a great light on the teams for the short term, but if there is no long term investment in discovering the next local Dan Carter then the short term investment is a waste.

crisco10

It seems to be as much a marketing ploy as anything else. Like when Nakata did the rounds of a few football clubs, it was more for his ability to sell jerseys in asia.

Perpignon have signed him for his rugby skills but I think a large part of his salary is down to his marketability in terms of merchandise/tv/ticket sales etc.

I agree, i think the Toulon Fiasco was a good thing to illustrate that its not all about money. And I think people have noticed that Munster are Heineken Champs with very few (Still some mind) "big money" signings..

zAbbo

We'll see just how good Carter really is, without savage forwards giving him an armchair ride...

Stev_o

I think he's fupped tbh. Does his 9 speak English? Probably not. Does his midfield speak English? Probably not. He'll be playing the game like a deaf man and it ll spell disaster. Not only that but i have on bet on some Top14 nobody player absolutely destroying Carter in a match to get his name about.

toomevara

zAbbo wrote: »

We'll see just how good Carter really is, without savage forwards giving him an armchair ride...

Fascinating alright. Croft, Moody and Crane will definitely be out to give him a rough intro to the Heineken.

anonymous_joe

crisco10 wrote: »

It seems to be as much a marketing ploy as anything else. Like when Nakata did the rounds of a few football clubs, it was more for his ability to sell jerseys in asia.

Perpignon have signed him for his rugby skills but I think a large part of his salary is down to his marketability in terms of merchandise/tv/ticket sales etc.

I agree, i think the Toulon Fiasco was a good thing to illustrate that its not all about money. And I think people have noticed that Munster are Heineken Champs with very few (Still some mind) "big money" signings..

Nakata was not a marketing ploy. Say what you want about Chinese and Japanese players, but Nakata was definitely a superb player.

As for Carter, it's inevitable. In any professional sport, the wages will increase until they are unsustainable. Some French and English clubs can afford to pay one or two players that much money - and they will.

anonymous_joe

Anyone watching this game?

Geordan Murphy is playing absolutely superbly.

remus808

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Anyone watching this game?

Geordan Murphy is playing absolutely superbly.

Turnstiles for that try....

remus808

karmabass wrote: »

Turnstiles for that try....

And then two awful kicks in a row...

He's no Kearney.

anonymous_joe

karmabass wrote: »

Turnstiles for that try....

Heh I know. ^^

And the kicking.

He's very very skillful. Not as good defensively as Dempsey or Kearney though.

razorblunt

The 2 commentators are woeful, think Greenwood is one of them.

As for Carter not being able to communicate, isn't the center South African, Berger I think.

Stev_o

razorblunt wrote: »

The 2 commentators are woeful, think Greenwood is one of them.

As for Carter not being able to communicate, isn't the center South African, Berger I think.

He's the FB

crisco10

http://mfile.akamai.com/18628/live/reflector:50922.asx

if anybody wants to stream it..

toomevara

Enjoyable game thus far. Carter playing well, even if the rest of the 3/4 line aren't used to the fact that he plays 5 or 6 yards flatter than they want to. if They get it together and come up flatter, it'll be an interesting kettle of fish.

Tigers still well in it, may even have turned the corner..Murphy his usual erratic self..brilliant one minute, mediocre/awful the next...

juvenal

Half decent game so far. DC started well, has three penalties, but missed a kickable one just before halftime and another from on the right touchline a couple of mins ago. Still a class act with the ball in hand as well, he can carry it like a centre.

A second converted Perpignan try just there and after 48 minutes it's:

Perpignan 23 Leicester 10

razorblunt

Stev_o wrote: »

He's the FB

Fair enough, I sit corrected

crisco10

Must say. Aside from the spear, Ellis was awful. He sat there ruck inspecting. It was infuriating to watch espeically after Murphys break in the last 3 minutes...Leicester needed quick ball which he wouldnt have provided in a month of sundays...

Stev_o

crisco10 wrote: »

Must say. Aside from the spear, Ellis was awful. He sat there ruck inspecting. It was infuriating to watch espeically after Murphys break in the last 3 minutes...Leicester needed quick ball which he wouldnt have provided in a month of sundays...

Dont know why they took Dupuy off by far Leicesters best player on the field.

toomevara

crisco10 wrote: »

Must say. Aside from the spear, Ellis was awful. He sat there ruck inspecting. It was infuriating to watch espeically after Murphys break in the last 3 minutes...Leicester needed quick ball which he wouldnt have provided in a month of sundays...

Seemed totally off the pace, and lucky to stay on the field after that idiotic tackle. Tigers did well, thought flood matched Carter, and that Leics backrow were brilliiant. Did well to secure the losing bonus. looking good to top the group. They and Quins the pick of the English crop at the minute.

johnnyc

ah its great though for European rugby that he is playing in this competition, but i recon carter aint the best player its richie mccaw accolade.

crisco10

johnnyc wrote: »

ah its great though for European rugby that he is playing in this competition, but i recon carter aint the best player its richie mccaw accolade.

Commentary was very annoying though. Wouldnt shut up about Carter. Some shocking myopia on the commentators part. Hopefully it passes when the novelty wears off..

handsomecake

worth well more then the 35000 k . o gara aint fit to lace his boots

toomevara

handsomecake wrote: »

worth well more then the 35000 k . o gara aint fit to lace his boots

You see, this is precisely the kind of comment which does nothing to further the quality of debate on the forum. This is of course your opinion and (imo, wrongheaded as it is) you are fully entitled to it, but please, please do us the courtesy of fleshing out your argument in some vaguely coherent and, above all, interesting, way...

For example, imo, no rugby player on earth (even one as trancendantly god-like as DC, wow just like JC!... hmmm... could it be????A rugby messiah among us?)is worth such a fee. Now.. there's my statement.

Next,and here's the kicker, I'll back it up with an argument, which will hopefully stimulate debate/dialogue.

Heres my argument:..If we allow teams who are cash rich to import players like Carter willy-nilly (love that phrase) from wherever they like, we'll end up with a competition as hollow and pointless as the English football premiership where realistically only 4 teams have a chance of winning anything thus forming essentially a league within a league and completely devaluing the fundamental currency of the sport..

Now, what say you to that young sir/madame?

handsomecake

toomevara wrote: »

You see, this is precisely the kind of comment which does nothing to further the quality of debate on the forum. This is of course your opinion and (imo, wrongheaded as it is) you are fully entitled to it, but please, please do us the courtesy of fleshing out your argument in some vaguely coherent and, above all, interesting, way...

For example, imo, no rugby player on earth (even one as trancendantly god-like as DC, wow just like JC!... hmmm... could it be????A rugby messiah among us?)is worth such a fee. Now.. there's my statement.

Next,and here's the kicker, I'll back it up with an argument, which will hopefully stimulate debate/dialogue.

Heres my argument:..If we allow teams who are cash rich to import players like Carter willy-nilly (love that phrase) from wherever they like, we'll end up with a competition as hollow and pointless as the English football premiership where realistically only 4 teams have a chance of winning anything thus forming essentially a league within a league and completely devaluing the fundamental currency of the sport..

Now, what say you to that young sir/madame?

agreed.
however carter IS worth every penny to answer your op.
but yes maybe each club should only be allowed 3 foreigners etc. the rand,aussie dollar,and nz dollar get murdered by the euro,sterling etc and the players see the $$$$$ signs calling from these shores. hence the allblacks ,spring boks etc (while still dominant) are being raped and pillaged by NH clubs. look at luke mcalister leaving the AB'S at 23 years of age while a prime contender for the number 12 shirt in order to make some easy cash.agreed also about english football being the bad example. robinho going to manchester city for 34 million and 120000 grand a week was a money move and nothing else. the fans have no affinity with their players,loyalty is dead,players feign injury during international weeks yet turn out the following saturday for their paymasters. it is in a sorry state.im a tottenham fan and have lost my favourite three players in 3 consecutive seasons (berbatov,defoe,carrick)

anonymous_joe

toomevara wrote: »

You see, this is precisely the kind of comment which does nothing to further the quality of debate on the forum. This is of course your opinion and (imo, wrongheaded as it is) you are fully entitled to it, but please, please do us the courtesy of fleshing out your argument in some vaguely coherent and, above all, interesting, way...

For example, imo, no rugby player on earth (even one as trancendantly god-like as DC, wow just like JC!... hmmm... could it be????A rugby messiah among us?)is worth such a fee. Now.. there's my statement.

Next,and here's the kicker, I'll back it up with an argument, which will hopefully stimulate debate/dialogue.

Heres my argument:..If we allow teams who are cash rich to import players like Carter willy-nilly (love that phrase) from wherever they like, we'll end up with a competition as hollow and pointless as the English football premiership where realistically only 4 teams have a chance of winning anything thus forming essentially a league within a league and completely devaluing the fundamental currency of the sport..

Now, what say you to that young sir/madame?

Giggle nilly.

If any position is worth it it's out-half. The best out-half in the world will have a proportionally greater than effect than the best (anything else) in the world.

Carter kicked Perpignan to victory the other day let's not forget. How many people went to that match? They've a stadium that seats 11500. Assuming a ticket costs €20 then that's roughly 200,000 a match. Of which 35,000 goes to Carter. So he's getting 17% or so of their match day income while he's there. Double that when you assume half the games are away.

That's probably excessive, but I'm not sure of the value of prize money etc and tv deals in France. Anyway, at the end of the day, because there are no transfer fees per sé in rugby as there are in football, inevitably teams will end up paying 100% of their income to players. Because teams are not profit maximising business - ergo, their purpose is different, and they will dedicate all available cash to that. Given that other than stadium and training ground maintenance pretty much all a rugby team has to spend money on is it's players and coaches wages, some of the teams could be earning a fortune.

If Stade were to charge €40 to go to a game, and could get 50,000 or so they could be making €2 million a game. That'd pay for a lot more Dan Carters...

It will almost certainly happen, and there's next to nothing we can do about it.

juvenal

In related news Leicester have "banned" Ellis for one week for the tackle on Carter.

IMO it was completely out of line and Ellis knew what he was doing. He's been cited and will apear in front of the committee on Friday in Dublin. I hope he gets a nice rest on the bench for his troubles. (Admittedly, I hate the little sh*t )

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/7784523.stm

Aidric

juvenal wrote: »

In related news Leicester have "banned" Ellis for one week for the tackle on Carter.

Glad to hear that. It was a shocking bit of play and has no place in the game.

sm.org

Aidric wrote: »

Glad to hear that. It was a shocking bit of play and has no place in the game.

A clear yellow card if ever there was one, leicester should have had at least three players binned.

The french teams really do get screwed by the refs in the HC.

juvenal

Ellis today got six weeks for the spear tackle on Carter.

He admitted the charge when appearing in front of the disciplinary committee today, and has been banned until and including 25th January. He missed GP matches against Newcastle, Harlequins, Bath and Northampton. More importantly, he also misses both of Leicester's remaining HEC pool matches, against Treviso and the Ospreys.

Leicester are not playing the last weekend in January, so he'll be unable to play competitve rugby before England's opening 6 Nations match against Italy on 7th February.

He has 72 hours to appeal, and Leicester say they will consider an appeal upon receipt of the written report and after consulting with club lawyers.

Fully deserved IMO and good to see that it's a meaningful ban that will affect a key part of both his and Leicester's season.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2008/1219/1229523147938.html

P_1

Over the weekend Carter missed four kicks on the bounce (two of them were right in front of the posts) for Perpingian against Castres