GAA shaft smaller counties in hurling

Pride Fighter

The GAA have shafted several counties in their creation of a 4th tier hurling championships.
Christy Ring cup sides Roscommon, London Meath and Armagh have been relegated to the Rackard cup. In last years Ring cup Meath showed they were a decent team, missing out on the quarter final by a points difference of 1, thats right 1. Mayo edged them into the spot by 1 point and Meath's reward is relegation. Also Meath beat Mayo in their pool game to make matters worse.

In the Nicky Rackard cup, Roscommon, London and Sligo have all won the competition in the very recent past. All those counties are back in that grade.

In the new 4th tier Donegal have gotten a right kick in the teeth, The former Rackard Cup finalists are in the newly formed Lory Meagher cup.

I really feel for counties trying to develop the game, they make improvements then they are kicked down again.

Frankie Lee

I agree, take a look at Westmeath hurling for instance, they have nowhere to go, they have no incentive to win the Christy Ring cup year after year, that is not progress.
The only solution is to let the "smaller" counties compete against better opposition as these teams will learn an awful lot more from a hammering by Kilkenny than competing for meaningless cups.

The GAA should be moving towards a two tier system and Westmeath, Carlow and possibly Kildare and Meath should be competing in the Leinster championship.

Pride Fighter

Frankie Lee wrote: »

I agree, take a look at Westmeath hurling for instance, they have nowhere to go, they have no incentive to win the Christy Ring cup year after year, that is not progress.
The only solution is to let the "smaller" counties compete against better opposition as these teams will learn an awful lot more from a hammering by Kilkenny than competing for meaningless cups.

The GAA should be moving towards a two tier system and Westmeath, Carlow and possibly Kildare and Meath should be competing in the Leinster championship.

I fully agree. Kildare lost to Dublin by 5 points in U-21 2 years ago. That is not a great gap, that can be bridged in a few years. So called tier 2 Leinster counties are doing quite well at underage.

What they could do to promote hurling is copy Rugby 7's. In Leinster lets have a second tier Leinster championship called the Leinster plate. Kildare, Meath, Carlow, Wicklow and Westmeath are automatically in it. The 3 Liam McCarthy teams who are KO'd in the first round compete too. That would be 8 teams. Have a straight knockout plate with the winners of the Leinster plate getting a bye to the last round of the qualifiers, maybe even the QF.

What do others think of my idea. Its a bit crappy but it offers an avenue to Croke park against big teams at an advanced stage of the championship.

Mushy

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I fully agree. Kildare lost to Dublin by 5 points in U-21 2 years ago. That is not a great gap, that can be bridged in a few years. So called tier 2 Leinster counties are doing quite well at underage.

What they could do to promote hurling is copy Rugby 7's. In Leinster lets have a second tier Leinster championship called the Leinster plate. Kildare, Meath, Carlow, Wicklow and Westmeath are automatically in it. The 3 Liam McCarthy teams who are KO'd in the first round compete too. That would be 8 teams. Have a straight knockout plate with the winners of the Leinster plate getting a bye to the last round of the qualifiers, maybe even the QF.

What do others think of my idea. Its a bit crappy but it offers an avenue to Croke park against big teams at an advanced stage of the championship.

Anything is better than what they have now. I think they should just do a 2nd tier all-Ireland, leave out names like Nicky Rackard etc. and just put all those teams in one competition. Haven't thought much beyond there about how it could be run, but just think it should be done.

Was at the Nicky Rackard final last year, Louth and Sligo...awful to watch but also fun as the scoring was so high. Could see that with some more incentive that the players could do better though, some nice touches around the place.

blackbelt

The system that should be in place is having a two tier competition.Make the league mean more and have Division 1 and 2 sides eligible for the backdoor for the Liam McCarthy Cup while Division 3 and 4 teams go into the Nicky Rackard Cup once they are beaten in their provincial games.

I would agree that the GAA has turned its back on the smaller counties.Sure they did this to teams like Down,Mayo etc when they took Antrim and Galway away out of their provinces.

The bridge won't be gapped anytime soon thats for sure.

patmac

There is talk of moving these competitions to May and June in order to facilitaye the local club competitions. In Roscommon you have 7 clubs, the championship began last May and ended at the end of October one club didn't play for 13 weeks because of the 5 games Roscommon played in the Christy Ring. I don't think the players are too happy to drop a level either, Meath will dominate the Rackard Cup next year beating Roscommon in the final by 12 points.

corcaioch

With Galway moved to Leinster, there's no reason why the Connaught hurling championship can't be revived(similar to Ulster) with Mayo, Roscommon, Sligo and Leitrim. The teams are of a similar enough level for the games to be competitive, and it gives the players something to play for in a Provincial title..just a thought.

Agus

blackbelt wrote: »

The system that should be in place is having a two tier competition.Make the league mean more and have Division 1 and 2 sides eligible for the backdoor for the Liam McCarthy Cup while Division 3 and 4 teams go into the Nicky Rackard Cup once they are beaten in their provincial games.

I would agree that the GAA has turned its back on the smaller counties.Sure they did this to teams like Down,Mayo etc when they took Antrim and Galway away out of their provinces.

The bridge won't be gapped anytime soon thats for sure.

Antrim haven't been taken out of Ulster surely, it's just that they play both the Ulster and Leinster competitions? And what good was the previous Galway situation doing Mayo??.

Pride Fighter

Agus wrote: »

And what good was the previous Galway situation doing Mayo??.

I dont have a clue cause they have not played in yonks.

Agus

Frankie Lee wrote: »

I agree, take a look at Westmeath hurling for instance, they have nowhere to go, they have no incentive to win the Christy Ring cup year after year, that is not progress.
The only solution is to let the "smaller" counties compete against better opposition as these teams will learn an awful lot more from a hammering by Kilkenny than competing for meaningless cups.

The GAA should be moving towards a two tier system and Westmeath, Carlow and possibly Kildare and Meath should be competing in the Leinster championship.

To be fair, Westmeath did have a chance to move up by winning the Ring and then the play-offf against the 12th McCarhty team. In 2008 Carlow beat Westmeath in the Ring final and then lost to Laois ln the play-off. Agree though that teams like Westmeath should be allowed to play provincial championship hurling.

Agus

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I dont have a clue cause they have not played in yonks.

Yes that was what I found odd!:D

Agus

Pride Fighter wrote: »

The GAA have shafted several counties in their creation of a 4th tier hurling championships.
Christy Ring cup sides Roscommon, London Meath and Armagh have been relegated to the Rackard cup. In last years Ring cup Meath showed they were a decent team, missing out on the quarter final by a points difference of 1, thats right 1. Mayo edged them into the spot by 1 point and Meath's reward is relegation. Also Meath beat Mayo in their pool game to make matters worse.

In the Nicky Rackard cup, Roscommon, London and Sligo have all won the competition in the very recent past. All those counties are back in that grade.

In the new 4th tier Donegal have gotten a right kick in the teeth, The former Rackard Cup finalists are in the newly formed Lory Meagher cup.

I really feel for counties trying to develop the game, they make improvements then they are kicked down again.

Agree, three tiers was enough, I don't see a real need for a fourth one below the Rackard

Flukey

Moving Galway and Antrim into Leinster was the biggest kick in the teeth given to Hurling. It has kicked counties in Connacht, Ulster and Leinster in the teeth. It is crazy that teams from Connacht and Ulster can play in Leinster while certain counties from Leinster can't. Galway and Antrim aren't the problem. The remaining counties in Connacht and Ulster are, as are the weaker counties of Leinster. They are the counties that efforts should be put into. The best thing that could be done for Galway and Antrim is to get the counties in their respective provinces up to a competitive level. It will take a while, which is why now is the time to start. Instead though, they are continuing to ignore the problem and fiddling about making pointless adjustments. Under the new system Galway and Antrim will end up playing the likes of Offaly and Laois, which is exactly what they were doing anyway. So nothing for Galway and Antrim has changed, but other counties have been kicked in the teeth.

Danno

Every county should be allowed to enter their provincial championships. These provincial championships' link with the All Ireland needs to be broken.

Daysha

Flukey wrote: »

Under the new system Galway and Antrim will end up playing the likes of Offaly and Laois, which is exactly what they were doing anyway. So nothing for Galway and Antrim has changed, but other counties have been kicked in the teeth.

Sorry if I'm being pedantic, but that's not entirely true.

Antrims Championship last year consisted of a 20+ pt defeat to Galway and a 20+ pt defeat to Waterford, and that was that, end of. They absolutely benefit from entering Leinster because they can give counties like Dublin, Laois and Offaly a run for their money.

But they are benefiting at the expense of the weaker counties in Leinster, which shouldn't have been allowed to happen.

2Scoops

Pride Fighter wrote: »

The GAA have shafted several counties in their creation of a 4th tier hurling championships.
Christy Ring cup sides Roscommon, London Meath and Armagh have been relegated to the Rackard cup. In last years Ring cup Meath showed they were a decent team, missing out on the quarter final by a points difference of 1, thats right 1. Mayo edged them into the spot by 1 point and Meath's reward is relegation. Also Meath beat Mayo in their pool game to make matters worse.

In the Nicky Rackard cup, Roscommon, London and Sligo have all won the competition in the very recent past. All those counties are back in that grade.

In the new 4th tier Donegal have gotten a right kick in the teeth, The former Rackard Cup finalists are in the newly formed Lory Meagher cup.

I really feel for counties trying to develop the game, they make improvements then they are kicked down again.

I see your point about relegation/promotion etc. but I think 4 competitions more closely reflects the different standards of hurling in the counties. Roscommon, London and Sligo haven't a snowball's chance in hell of progressing in the CR cup, in all honesty. There is no incentive to the players to compete knowing they cannot possibly win out. Similarly, Donegal would be outclassed in the NR cup. Meath, with respect, didn't make the last 8 in the CR cup and someone has to get relegated.

Also, in some cases, the counties actually request to stay in a lower division to have a realistic chance of winning.

Frankie Lee

Just thought I should bring this up again, this years division 2 league table:

Note Carlow finished ahead of Laois and only a point behind Antrim who they comprehensively beat but still they're not allowed compete in Leinster.

http://www.hoganstand.com/general/leagues/2009/hurlingtable.aspx

Daysha

You're absolutely right Frankie, the league highlighted just some of the overwhelming flaws in the new system.

I really don't understand why they don't add a preliminary round in Leinster for Carlow and Westmeath. You'll have 9 competing counties then, so just run it off like they do for the Ulster football.

What's the problem?

Jugs82

Carlow hurling certainly warrants a place in this years LC - I know they got a hammering from Wexford at the weekend but they have made huge strides over the past few years.

A 2-tier all ireland makes sense but is it not what we have already? (Kind of)
All Ireland + Christy Ring and obviously the Nicky Rackard Cup

Personally, i think all teams should have the opportunity to play in the provional championship - i.e. Carlow, Kildare etc...

Really like the idea of having the connaught championship without Galway - although i can hear the whining already

future_plans

Daysha wrote: »

You're absolutely right Frankie, the league highlighted just some of the overwhelming flaws in the new system.

I really don't understand why they don't add a preliminary round in Leinster for Carlow and Westmeath. You'll have 9 competing counties then, so just run it off like they do for the Ulster football.

What's the problem?

Absolutely agree 110% It makes no sense whatsoever. Of course people will say that whoever wins the preliminary round will then get a hammering in the next. But they deserve the right to come up against those teams once a year. If even to benchmark their progress. It's hard enough to promote the game in these counties without the kids thinking they will never get the chance to play top tier just because they were born on the wrong side of the county bounds.

Arctic89

Missed this thread when it was originally up, I play U21 for Louth, train with the Senior panel who got to the Nicky Rackard final last year. Anyway two weeks ago we beat Wicklow in the Leinster championship, a team a full tier above us at Senior level, by 11 points. We played Carlow at the weekend in the next round, got beaten by 20 points, would have been a lot closer had it not been for us losing our full forward, who picked up 1-5 in the Wicklow game, to a shoulder injury the week before the Carlow game.

My point is, there has been a lot of really good work done on hurling in Louth over the past few years. Compared to the amount of people playing and money spent, we're relatively a lot more successful than the footballers. We're eventually producing results against stronger counties, and the reward we get for this is a load of stronger teams being thrown into the Nicky Rackard, which we could have realistically won this year, to beat the crap out of us and keep us down for another few years. I have no idea why the GAA wants to keep hurling down in weaker counties but it deifinitely looks that way. There is a lot of counties who could definitely make a jump up a tier over the next few years, if the GAA treates them correctly, including Westmeath and Carlow to Liam Mc Carthy and Louth and Sligo to Christy Ring level. To me, those aims should be as least as important as restructuring the Leinster Championship to involve Antrim and Galway, and any other business the GAA is planning.

Stevecw

Agree with most of what has been said here.
As a Carlowman i am very annoyed that we are not been given the chance to compete in the Leinster championship...while Antrim (who we beat in league) are despite not being a leinster side.
But in saying that i welcome Antrims involvement in Leinster, but really think Carlow and Westmeath should be part of it too.

In my opinion the best solution would be to have a round-robin section where Laois, Antrim, Carlow and Westmeath play each other once. Winner of this group gets to play Offaly/Dublin in leinster.

The 4 teams i mentioned are all at same level, it would give each 3 good leinster championship games, and the best of the 4 progresses on.

It could easily be run in May/early June.

Declan30

Every year the so called experts are saying that the likes of Westmeath /Carlow/Antrim and so on will never improve if they don't play the established hurling counties.
So what do they do put Antrim in Lenister and don't allow Carlow or Westmeath to complete in the Lenister championship.
People will point out that they will take a lot of heavy defeats but they have to start somewhere and a lot of the so called smaller hurling counties are really putting the work in and deserve a chance.

future_plans

It's not that long ago when Waterford and Clare were taking annual heavy defeats in Munsters.....or likewise with Dublin in Leinster...