Would you sign to be searched?

Biggins

A good friend rang me and asked if it was legal to be searched at work by employers.

He turned up for work yesterday and was told that he had to sign a contract to say that he was allowing himself to be searched from now on.
If he didn't sign (which he didn't yet) his wages from next week would be held back till he DID sign.

Should he bullied into signing?
What would you do?

Turd Ferguson

I wouldnt sign it. It cant be legal for them to hold his wages for that?


EDIT: Actually sdonn_1 has a point, it would depend on what he does.

sdanseo

Really depends what he's working as/at. An educated guess would be the prison service?

In a case like that or similar there's a very good reason to be searched and I'd sign in out of common decency.

boring_job_guy

I'd get a solicitor and refuse to sign.

funk-you

Not sign and let them make the next move. If it is illegal they won't push it.

-Funk

Bottle_of_Smoke

In fairness some places you just have to be searched. Likes of Peats/Argos etc would lose a fortune if staff could pocket ipods here & there.

When I worked in a sports shop they checked our bags, didn't sign anything thoguh

seamus

They can't force him to sign and they can't withhold his wages.

Me personally, I'd walk into the office of whoever was in charge and tell them straight out that I knew their actions were illegal and if he didn't agree to drop the matter and pay me my wages right now, I was going outside to ring NERA and my solicitor.

Smart Bug

Depends on where he works. If it's for a Columbian cocaine processing ring then I'd say fair cop, otherwise I dunno really.

Ckal

Don't accept the job. Those employers sound like a bunch of twats.

If it's legal or not, it's absolute garbage. What happened to the day where you just clocked in, worked, clocked out? Everything seems to have a contract or a load of **** thrown in with it.

Tell your mate to contact SIPTU to see if it's legal or not.

AnonoBoy

It really depends on where he works.

Prison - they'll probably make him sign it.
Strip Club - he probably shouldn't sign it.
Sex shop - they'll probe him hard if he signs it. Might be worth signing so he can come on and entertain AH with the stories.

BroomBurner

I'd look for a full explanation as to why there was now a searching procedure, how long to expect it to last, what was to be expected during the search and what legal basis they were using to withhold wages.

Also agree with previous poster on it depending on the job in question, like working for the prisons or the mint.

Biggins

He works for a private company.
I told him that I wouldn't sign it but that's easy for me as I'm not working where he is!

He's been working for the company for 10+ years by the way so its not a mater of trust.
The owners know him well and trust him completely.
They know however that if he don't sign it, others might rebel too!

Some young upstart in a section just wants to bring this crap in apparently.

Smart Bug

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Sex shop - they'll probe him hard if he signs it.

javaboy

If proof was ever needed that employees should be searched leaving work here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59H4S-a8Wj4

If you're still not convinced watch that old Lynx ad where a miner leaves work having stole a diamond. Plus Blood Diamond wouldn't have been nearly as bloody if those pesky employees hadn't got such sticky fingers.

anonymous_joe

Context is crucial.

Does he have access to expensive goods/equipment?

Has theft become an issue at the company or whatever?

Morally it's not exactly kosher, but I can think of a few professions where I'd grudgingly accept it.

MarkR

Unilateral change in contract enforced by a witholding of wages? Can't see that one being legit.

Get friend to seek legal advice.

Biggins

He tells me the company is hiring illegals by the way.
Paying them well, well below the minumum rate. He asked was there anything to help them!

Is there any point in reporting them? Would anything be actually done?

Ross_Mahon

They do it in my place, the managers have to meet targets of searches done in a week for their bosses, Its usually very quick and not a big deal.

There was one time they brought in two detectives from England, They went through everyone's lockers and bags? And they had the right to check your car, I thought that was a bit out of order.

Roadend

I'd only sign if they agreed to slip a couple of fingers up my rusty sherrif's badge during the search.

seamus

Biggins wrote: »

He tells me the company is hiring illegals by the way.
Paying them well, well below the minumum rate. He asked was there anything to help them!

Is there any point in reporting them? Would anything be actually done?

Since you know where he works, ring up the Garda Immigration Bureau (http://www.garda.ie/gnib.html) on 016669130 and report them. That means that he doesn't get in any trouble.

Hurry though, they are civil servants, so they go home at 4 o'clock on Fridays.

There was one time they brought in two detectives from England, They went through everyone's lockers and bags? And they had the right to check your car, I thought that was a bit out of order.

You were completely taken for a ride. They can make searches of your person and your locker a condition of your contract, but they have no rights whatsoever to search your vehicle.

Biggins

Ross_Mahon wrote: »

...And they had the right to check your car, I thought that was a bit out of order.

but do they have the automatic right?
I'm lucky to be running my own business. He's under pressure to cave in with the boss bullies - its either no wages or the sack!

buynow

He just needs to be inventive -

There was a man who had worked at a factory for twenty years. Every night when he left the plant, he would push a wheelbarrow full of straw to the guard at the gate.

The guard would look through the straw, and find nothing and pass the man through.

On the day of his retirement the man came to the guard as usual but without the wheelbarrow.

Having become friends over the years, the guard asked him, "Charlie, I've seen you walk out of here every night for twenty years. I know you've been stealing something. Now that you're retired, tell me what it is. It's driving me crazy."

Charlie simply smiled and replied, "Okay, Wheelbarrows! "

Yeah it is an old one.

Ross_Mahon

Biggins wrote: »

but do they have the automatic right?
I'm lucky to be running my own business. He's under pressure to cave in with the boss bullies - its either no wages or the sack!

You have to sign a form before they can check your car, If you refuse to sign it, they will probably think your hiding something and call the feds.

It happened to a woman before, She was fleecing the place and hiding her stash in her car. I think most contracts with jobs will clarify that you can be searched briefly on the spot.

seamus

Ross_Mahon wrote: »

You have to sign a form before they can check your car

I would dispute the legality of any document which you can sign that gives someone the "right" to search your vehicle. Imagine if they insisted on including a clause in your contract that they could come to your home periodically to search for stolen goods.

They'd be laughed out of court.

Although, if you were parking your car on their private property, they can make it a condition of your parking there that your vehicle may be searched on the way out. I've seen that before.

javaboy

Roadend wrote: »

I'd only sign if they agreed to slip a couple of fingers up my rusty sherrif's badge during the search.

You must be working from the same thesaurus as FlutterinBantam.

Biggins

Well unless he can steal a pool, building or water, he won't get it into a car.

The owners run a waterworld and fun park!!

Smart Bug

Biggins wrote: »

Well unless he can steal a pool, building or water, he won't get it into a car.

The owners run a waterworld and fun park!!

Ah, they're trying to prevent another Maddie then?

Guard: "What's that massive gunny sack for, and why's it dripping red stuff?"

Terry

Biggins wrote: »

Well unless he can steal a pool, building or water, he won't get it into a car.

The owners run a waterworld and fun park!!

Please don't name them.

Biggins

Terry wrote: »

Please don't name them.

Don't worry, I won't.

I mention the vague area to show the environment he works in.
Plus they have cameras everywhere, every angle covered including the staff, etc.

He finds it now insulting that he is being pressurised to sign (and he's no push-over) and he is not one I'd like to get into a scrap with lol.

wanrek

A lot of places have this written into their work contracts...it usually states that if needed to be searched you agree?? Like if someones personal belongings goes missing in an office your saying its alright to search you. Load of crap really, I wouldn't sign it.

BaconZombie

Peats "tried" to search staff a few years ago and were told were to go by most of the staff.

The Garda are the only ones that can search you but then only after you have been asserted.

Your Boss, Boucher, Security {rent a cop}, teachers, etc can not legally search you.

This includes your bags, locker {even if it is owned by the company}, etc.

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

In fairness some places you just have to be searched. Likes of Peats/Argos etc would lose a fortune if staff could pocket ipods here & there.

When I worked in a sports shop they checked our bags, didn't sign anything thoguh

dade

I'd guess it's illegal to do this. I'm pretty sure they would need to have a Garda search you and have just cause to do so. I'd tell them to stick it, its a new clause in the contract and to implement this new term of employment means renegotiating the contract. more cash for your mate and he also doesn't have to accept these new terms.

i know when i was offered a job before and i read the contract it stipulated i would be searched daily. I called them and told them that if the company had no thrust in me as a member of staff then i had no thrust in the company. if they felt I had no integrity and would rip them off before i even come work for them the they where obviously not a company worth working for. her answer was "so you're not taking it, thanks very much we have to go through the recruitment process again" i said if you had shown some thrust in your staff i would have worked for you, you didn't i wont bye now.

SpookyDoll

Some young upstart in a section just wants to bring this crap in apparently.

This person must be broken immediately, sounds like a megalomaniac in the making.

The worst thing you can do with these types is give in for a quiet life, the little upstart could then run right out of control.

Does he have it in writing that they are threatening to withhold the wages?

If not, get it, I would find it very hard to believe that any company would commit to putting something like that in writing.

If he can get it in writing, I would then take it to a solicitor and bang a solicitors letter right back at them to the effect of hes been working there 10 years, this is an unsanctioned and unreasonable change to his working conditions.

If he has a contract he should give this to the solicitor and get them to go through it with a fine tooth comb, if there is no mention of searches being required, flat out refuse to cooperate and slap legal action on them if they try to withhold the wages.

Fight fire with fire, he should not comply with this nonsense.

oztots

I find it great that i work in an airport. Before i realised that theres other gates i went through the main gate and walk on through a metal detector.

Thing is half the people there are going to work with steel toe caps and the likes, they'd just wave you through if you had ID. One time i realised id brought a knife with me that i was messing with.

I dont think its right for them to search your car. I mean its your car, not theirs.

Roadend

dade wrote: »

" i said if you had shown some thrust in your staff i would have worked for you, you didn't i wont bye now.

I'm not sure I'd like my boss thrusting me

Boskowski

Regardless of the legality of it I find it absolutely out of order and deeply insulting.

There may be circumstances where such procedures seem unavoidable. New staff in wholesale jeweler or something like that.

But if I was working for 10 years in some waterpark (wtf?!? are they selling diamonds after hours or what?) and all of a sudden they told me I was going to be searched every day I'd complain first down (or up I should say) the management chain and HR and I'd make myself pretty clear, I wouldn't be feeble about it. And if that doesn't help I'd get legal advice. No way I'd have it.

Edit: Actually I forgot about the withholding wages issue. Forget about all the moderate crap. I'd go on an all out war here.

Mena

dade wrote: »

I'd guess it's illegal to do this. I'm pretty sure they would need to have a Garda search you and have just cause to do so. I'd tell them to stick it, its a new clause in the contract and to implement this new term of employment means renegotiating the contract. more cash for your mate and he also doesn't have to accept these new terms.

i know when i was offered a job before and i read the contract it stipulated i would be searched daily. I called them and told them that if the company had no thrust in me as a member of staff then i had no thrust in the company. if they felt I had no integrity and would rip them off before i even come work for them the they where obviously not a company worth working for. her answer was "so you're not taking it, thanks very much we have to go through the recruitment process again" i said if you had shown some thrust in your staff i would have worked for you, you didn't i wont bye now.

A tad short-sighted no? You have to realise that this world is chock full of people who would rip a company off if given half a chance. They stipulated it upfront, which is fine, whereas in the case of the OP, they're adding in conditions of employment after the fact, which is a no no without agreement.

Funny story. Many, many years ago as a field service technician, one of the companies we did work for was a large mine (not in Ireland :P ). Part and parcel of leaving said mine was going through security with a chance of being strip searched. Lube, gloves and all.

Upon leaving, you'd need to stick your hand into a box device and pull out a small ball, most were coloured green, but some were red. If you happened to pull out a red ball, it's off to the back room with ya!

Whenever a call came in from that company, there would be mass bribery amongst the technicians to get someone else to go out and do the call

Jesus1222

Your mate has 10 years experience. They can't sack him on a whim. If they do there is a solid chance he'd have legal options. They cannot under any cirumstances withhold his wages because he won't sign a unilaterally introduced new contract. Tell your mate to tell them he wants to read the contract over the weekend and he'll come back to them. Get legal advice asap. And call Joe Duffy!

Edit: what on earth of value could you steal from a water park on your person? Bizarre.

SpookyDoll

Jesus1222 wrote: »

Edit: what on earth of value could you steal from a water park on your person? Bizarre.

The takings! Though I cant imagine they'd be much in this weather...

Biggins

Jesus1222 wrote: »

...what on earth of value could you steal from a water park on your person? Bizarre.

Yep, totally nuts!

He's not signed so far as a matter of principle and the fact that he dislikes the heavy bullying aspect to it.

Trust me when I say, I can take on a lot of people but this guy is one of the few I wouldn't like to argue with day or night, sober or drunk.

He's no push-over. Fair play to him!

ShooterSF

This may have been stated already. If he's been working there 10 years Id assume hes not on a fixed term contract i.e a year contract or something that he renews every so ofthern. Therefore he automatically has a contract of employment with his employer. If they want him to sign a new contract, like ANY contract, BOTH parties have to agree to it. He already has a contract so they can't fire him for refusing to sign a revised one. I had this argument with an employer before who eventually backed down.
Tell him to get legal advice.