All those sites are a diversion.(you know the ones)

conceited

If you ask me all these websites today are just a way of creating "noise" ....

Another technique of concealing facts, or censorship, is also used if the group can affect such control. When channels of information cannot be completely closed, they can be rendered useless by filling them with disinformation, effectively lowering their signal-to-noise ratio and discrediting the opposition by association with a lot of easily-disproved false claims.

In other words it's causing you to waste your time on bull**** when you should be infact using it on "REAL" issues.
All those sites are run for a reason.
This is my own "conspiracy" and i ruined it by calling it a conspiracy.....

conceited

conceited wrote: »

If you ask me all these websites today are just a way of creating "noise" ....

Another technique of concealing facts, or censorship, is also used if the group can affect such control. When channels of information cannot be completely closed, they can be rendered useless by filling them with disinformation, effectively lowering their signal-to-noise ratio and discrediting the opposition by association with a lot of easily-disproved false claims.

In other words it's causing you to waste your time on bull**** when you should be infact using it on "REAL" issues.
All those sites are run for a reason.

It's a lot more likely that they are sites by people who can't critical evaluate any information they are given and have long long ago convinced themselves about NWO/UFOS/lizards whatever.

No reason (or evidence) to assume that it's part of an evil scheme.

conceited

I feel alot of very smart and bright young people are waisting very valuable time on these childish websites. From lizards, nwo, jews,etc etc etc while all along missing the big picture.... common sense is a great radar.
The real information is right infront of you , you just choose to ignore it for some strange reaon.

conceited

conceited wrote: »

I feel alot of very smart and bright young people are waisting very valuable time on these childish websites. From lizards, nwo, jews,etc etc etc while all along missing the big picture.... common sense is a great radar.
The real information is right infront of you , you just choose to ignore it for some strange reaon.

Common sense, unfortunately, is not universal.
People are prone to enforce their entrenched beliefs rather than impartial evaluation.
Critical thinking should be applied to all beliefs including your own.

Time Magazine

King Mob wrote: »

Common sense, unfortunately, is not universal.
People are prone to enforce their entrenched beliefs rather than impartial evaluation.

And how this forum shows it.

Kernel

conceited wrote: »

The real information is right infront of you , you just choose to ignore it for some strange reaon.

That's *your* version of the real information, the truth, the gospel etc. Nothing wrong with people using their own minds to decide for themselves what is more plausible. I'm amazed that people still doubt a NWO. My only explanation on this is that they have not read widely on the subject.

As for noise, entertainment is noise. X-Factor is noise, Coronation street is noise... all that other worthless crap that the masses gorge themselves on from the trough of lowest common denominator television is the noise. World of Warcraft and your virtual worlds are noise. You are not your plasma television.

I like this clip from Zeitgeist Final Edition.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9wCAQz73tA&feature=related

And this one sums it up too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtg9W2VQjOA&feature=related

Kernel

Kernel wrote: »

I'm amazed that people still doubt a NWO. My only explanation on this is that they have not read widely on the subject.

That the thing, it's not the only explanation is it?

Maybe there is no NWO?

starn

Kernel wrote: »

I like this clip from Zeitgeist Final Edition.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9wCAQz73tA&feature=related

And this one sums it up too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtg9W2VQjOA&feature=related

Im sorry I dont quite get it.

I dont own a TV and havent had one for a few years know. Yet still dont belive in the NWO. Its not the case that Ive been brain washed by Bill OReilly or Sky news. I have no way to watch them. So who has brainwashed me ?

Nick_oliveri

Keep it up starn tbh, you arent missing much.

conceited

King Mob wrote: »

That the thing, it's not the only explanation is it?

Maybe there is no NWO?

Exactly....

Flamed Diving

starn wrote: »

Im sorry I dont quite get it.

I dont own a TV and havent had one for a few years know. Yet still dont belive in the NWO. Its not the case that Ive been brain washed by Bill OReilly or Sky news. I have no way to watch them. So who has brainwashed me ?

At a guess, before one of the CT'ers jump in.

1) Your school
2) MONNNNNNEY
3) Magazines/Newspapers
4) MONNNNNNNNEY
5) Erm... MONNNNNEY

Kama

So who has brainwashed me ?

As the mother Nazi said to the lazy teenage Nazi:

'It's time you grew up and washed your own brain!'


Can't speak for anyone else, but I still find myself prone to cognitive biases, I still yell 'Christ' when I stub my toe despite being atheist or agnostic for over 20 years, and so on. It's nice to think that you test all of your beliefs to destruction in a scientific fashion, and ruthlessly discard any and all that fail due to your perfect internal error-checking algorithm...but frankly we all get our beliefs from somewhere, and it would seem to me to be common sense to assume there's 'Garbage In' at some point. Seems a fertile hypothesis

There's a fair argument to be made if you do buy CT assumptions to steer clear of CT, since it's most likely contaminated disinfo. Jacques Valle made this argument with CT'ers and UFO's, that CT'ers are, by reading CT, far more amenable to control by elites than non-CT's.

(Interestingly, this is similar to Jacques Ellul's theory on propaganda, that it is made for intellectuals, who are more receptive to it than anyone else more than anyone else, and hence more amenable to control.)

As a general orienting principle, or a form of psychik self-defence from the Archons, I usually ask myself: does holding this belief cause me to be more paranoid and feel more helpless, or does it help me understand and engage with the world. I try to steer towards the second lately, since there's more than enough of the first around ;D

WhaLofShi

Dammit, Kama. You ha[FONT=georgia,palatino]v[/FONT]e been missed around here

Welcome Back.

bonkey

Kernel wrote: »

I'm amazed that people still doubt a NWO. My only explanation on this is that they have not read widely on the subject.

Funny....I'd have said that this is on of the principle reasons for people believing in an NWO.

I guess our definitions of "widely" differ...that or our choice of reading material

Flamed Diving

It's all about interpretation, isn't it? We all see the same evidence, but come away with different opinions as to what it means. Simple.

Kernel

Yes, but I could have understood it years ago, when people claimed we were paranoid when we predicted the crash of the economy due to the fed, and the globalisation and one world government agenda. Thing is, can't people see that this is what is happening right now? If you have read up on the NWO, on history, on politics then I don't see how you people can deny it? The chief architects of the NWO agenda have spelled it all out in their own speeches, books and papers! Is it fear? Ignorance? Lack of experience?

I don't know, but I'm honestly amazed that people disregard the evidence for the NWO agenda. Perhaps because I'm older than many here, I can remember the conspiracy theories from many years ago, and can recognise that they are now coming to pass. I understand how the corporations work, and the machinations of politics from my own life experience. Ah well, I won't lose sleep about it, because making skeptics believe my point of view is not of any importance to me. Years ago people claimed globalisation was bull****, today it's happened.

And, can you people ease off on the whole 'thanking' thing? It's like there's a little faction of naysayers running through the threads thanking each other in order to bolster their arguments.

Flamed Diving

Kernel wrote: »

Yes, but I could have understood it years ago, when people claimed we were paranoid when we predicted the crash of the economy due to the fed, and the globalisation and one world government agenda. Thing is, can't people see that this is what is happening right now? If you have read up on the NWO, on history, on politics then I don't see how you people can deny it? The chief architects of the NWO agenda have spelled it all out in their own speeches, books and papers! Is it fear? Ignorance? Lack of experience?

I don't know, but I'm honestly amazed that people disregard the evidence for the NWO agenda. Perhaps because I'm older than many here, I can remember the conspiracy theories from many years ago, and can recognise that they are now coming to pass. I understand how the corporations work, and the machinations of politics from my own life experience. Ah well, I won't lose sleep about it, because making skeptics believe my point of view is not of any importance to me. Years ago people claimed globalisation was bull****, today it's happened.

And, can you people ease off on the whole 'thanking' thing? It's like there's a little faction of naysayers running through the threads thanking each other in order to bolster their arguments.

People have been warning of a crash from years, get over yourself. Globalisation or globalism has been talked about since the 19th century. Do you think the world ends and begins with your opinion?

javaboy

Kernel wrote: »

And, can you people ease off on the whole 'thanking' thing? It's like there's a little faction of naysayers running through the threads thanking each other in order to bolster their arguments.

It cuts down on people posting simply to say +1 or "I agree". e.g. I'm not going to repeat Bonkey's post that I agree with when I can just thank it instead.

Kama

It cuts down on people posting simply to say +1 or "I agree".

I agree, +1!


I think Kernel has a bit more of a point than people are implying; if you compare the predictions of CT generally (managed collapse with elite enrichment, 'global governance', false flag incidents and propagandistic media etc etc) with the predictions of lets say, oh, Whig Globalization (Flat World Friedmanism, Fukuyamist End of History, rising tide for all And All That), does it *really* come off that bad? Either descriptively or predictively?

(Disclosure: I'm not into totipotent conspiracies myself, except on Saturdays, my 2c is on chaos with competition between interest groups rather than Lizards; Paulson has ripped of the US for Morgan and Goldman-Sachs rather than an Illuminati Agenda, fr'instance).

Conspiracy theory is unavoidably inexact and messy stuff done right (done wrong its clean and certain, eg the JOOS did it), but if we had to choose between 2 obvious falsehoods, the one being that the world is governed in an relatively open and democratic manner as in most institutionalist 'Liberal Cathedral' accounts, the other that the world is governed by covert interest groups who manipulate as best they can as in the CT accounts...well, I'm CT and proud baby!

meglome

Kama wrote: »

I agree, +1!


I think Kernel has a bit more of a point than people are implying; if you compare the predictions of CT generally (managed collapse with elite enrichment, 'global governance', false flag incidents and propagandistic media etc etc) with the predictions of lets say, oh, Whig Globalization (Flat World Friedmanism, Fukuyamist End of History, rising tide for all And All That), does it *really* come off that bad? Either descriptively or predictively?

(Disclosure: I'm not into totipotent conspiracies myself, except on Saturdays, my 2c is on chaos with competition between interest groups rather than Lizards; Paulson has ripped of the US for Morgan and Goldman-Sachs rather than an Illuminati Agenda, fr'instance).

Conspiracy theory is unavoidably inexact and messy stuff done right (done wrong its clean and certain, eg the JOOS did it), but if we had to choose between 2 obvious falsehoods, the one being that the world is governed in an relatively open and democratic manner as in most institutionalist 'Liberal Cathedral' accounts, the other that the world is governed by covert interest groups who manipulate as best they can as in the CT accounts...well, I'm CT and proud baby!

The problem with us lovely human beings is that we like to believe in all sorts of things without any direct proof whatsoever. We're often suspicious and paranoid. I couldn't say how many times someone in here has stated something as fact but can't explain how it's fact, it just is. Nor do they seem to have the critical thinking that wonders why they believe in something without any actual proof. At this stage the internet is playing into this paranoia by a constant supply of new conspiracies that us 'sheeple' won't believe as silly things like logic and sense are important to us. There are so many different conspiracies that the only question is when one of them will turn out to be true, but it's just the splatter effect. You throw a vast quantity of muck and eventually something sticks.

Kernel wrote: »

Yes, but I could have understood it years ago, when people claimed we were paranoid when we predicted the crash of the economy due to the fed, and the globalisation and one world government agenda.

The crash of the economy due to the Fed? I thought it was due to simple greed. How did the Fed cause it? (other than lack of regulation perhaps)

Kernel wrote: »

Thing is, can't people see that this is what is happening right now? If you have read up on the NWO, on history, on politics then I don't see how you people can deny it? The chief architects of the NWO agenda have spelled it all out in their own speeches, books and papers! Is it fear? Ignorance? Lack of experience?

So I'm to believe that people who want to control every aspect of our lives are openly telling us this? They run a vast omnipotent organisation but keep making the mistake of telling us?

Kernel wrote: »

I don't know, but I'm honestly amazed that people disregard the evidence for the NWO agenda. Perhaps because I'm older than many here, I can remember the conspiracy theories from many years ago, and can recognise that they are now coming to pass. I understand how the corporations work, and the machinations of politics from my own life experience. Ah well, I won't lose sleep about it, because making skeptics believe my point of view is not of any importance to me. Years ago people claimed globalisation was bull****, today it's happened.

Splatter, splatter, splatter. Governments are shown time and again to be bureaucratic and incompetent yet can run a vast all reaching conspiracy? Corporations often go down the wrong road, lose vast sums of money yet are in control of the world?

Kernel wrote: »

And, can you people ease off on the whole 'thanking' thing? It's like there's a little faction of naysayers running through the threads thanking each other in order to bolster their arguments.

I'd personally thank someone for bringing sense into a topic, nothing to do with bolstering their arguments.

starn

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Globalisation or globalism has been talked about since the 19th century. Do you think the world ends and begins with your opinion?

Id go back a little bit further then that. The establishment of the spice trade. The establishment of trading posts the east and South America by the Danish

Kama

The problem with us lovely human beings is that we like to believe in all sorts of things without any direct proof whatsoever. We're often suspicious and paranoid. I couldn't say how many times someone in here has stated something as fact but can't explain how it's fact, it just is.

A CT'er could say (as I believe Kernel has at one point) that while you might not have 'proof' (and good luck 'proving' anything in history or any social science) there is significant evidence of dominant elites (who leave quite open accounts, like the Grand Chessboard) who exert a substantially higher degree of power than subordinate groups. Politics (and arguably economics) is about power distribution, and the distribution is inarguably unequal. Thats hardly paranoid fantasy. And as Greg Palast would say, you don't need smoky rooms when you hae cleanly lit boardrooms to associate in.

Equally, being paranoid doesn't automatically mean you're wrong; it's an attitude towards the world of supicion, and someone who approaches the world with suspicion is more likely to find structures and forces of control etc than someone who doesn't. Same as in, say, International Relations, and assuming other people are going to attack you, vide Realist political theory. As ye seek, so shall ye find, as the Man said.

Nor do they seem to have the critical thinking that wonders why they believe in something without any actual proof.

Sure, there are naive and unreflective CT's. There's plenty of self-sceptical at the same time, for the obvious reflexive reason that CT means you doubt and question what's true, much as Philip K Dick doubted his sanity continuously as a psychological posture. (Happy Birthday Phil!)

Making comments that 'they' do this, are crazy nuts, are naive, are uneducated, can't think for themseles, believe anything they read on the intardnet, etc, pretty eactly mirrors the accusation that CT's call everyone else 'sheeple', that they just believe the MSM, that they are indoctrinated in elite or liberal or NWO propaganda, etc.````

'We have rationality and they do not' just doesn't cut it for me tbh. As Diogenes has rightly pointed out in another thread, calling people stupid idiots isn't a very effective argumentative technique, when used by either 'side' of the debate.

At this stage the internet is playing into this paranoia by a constant supply of new conspiracies that us 'sheeple' won't believe as silly things like logic and sense are important to us.

Its also providing a more decentralized system of information access, rather than a vertical-hierarchical chain of distribution; have to take the swings with the roundabouts.

Now, paranoia is increasing, there are surveys to that effect. We can say this is because people are dumb and gullible and try and epiphenomalise it as a aberrant pathology, or ask why paranoia makes more sense to people as a way of interpreting the world, and what are the effects of people conceptualising the world in an increasingly paranoid manner.

Which (to me) is a far more interesting question than the 'dead end' of 'because they are brainless sheeple'.

Flamed Diving

starn wrote: »

Id go back a little bit further then that. The establishment of the spice trade. The establishment of trading posts the east and South America by the Danish

I meant the actual terms. It was roughly around the time of European dominance, when they had interconnected the whole world with railways and telegrams, and when you could get British food in Hong Kong, French food in Cambodia, etc. That was the true beginning of globalisation, which in itself is a completely misunderstood term. Globalisation is merely the disintegration of time and space, due to technology. It will carry on regardless of governments. Eric Hobsbawm defined it best for me in the book On the Edge of the New Century. I recommend reading it.