Bayonets and Rust

dresden8

Hi

Just moved into collecting bayonets. I picked up a 1907 British bayonet which seems to have been issued and re-issued from the first to the second world war.

It's not in the best of shape but I like it.

But anyway.

It does have some surface rust on it. Doesn't seem to have much metal damage beyond that.

My questions are

1. Will leaving it as it is do it any harm? Will leaving the rust on protect or promote damage to the metal? Will it make a difference?

2. Any links to decent sites/posts showing the proper way to clean, if in fact that's the right thing to do?

I'm sure the questions appear quite noobish but what the hell, I just don't know!

I'll try to put if pics if I get any decent ones.

therewillbe

Hi, the lads in the military section will let you know whats best for your bayonet. Some serious collectors there.Get your camera ready cause they will want to see it.Its under SOCIAL AT THE TOP.

cochineal

If only all you guys had come to my lectures in UCD on the care of collections! Just finished 8 week course last week. Hopefully will be running it again next year but only if enough people ring the adult education centre in UCD to express an interest. I'll also give talks to any group who want to book me. Anyway, no - rust does not form a passivating layer of corrosion on it like copper or lead, so it will not protect the underlying metal. In the museum I would have used a laser to remove the rust but you may have to use someting like 0000 wire wool and renaissance wax. Arms & armour, badges etc. can tend to have very delicate surfaces such as blueing etc.so you'll have to be very careful. Effectively, you need water or oxygen for corrosion to proceed so keep it as dry as possible - pack it with silica gel for example. Could you post pictures? I'll have a better idea of what advice to give you then.

SpitfireIV

Hi dresden,

Yes, we want pictures, lots of pics!

Anyway, about the rust, as cochineal mentioned your best bet is 0000 wire wool and the renaissance wax. Might not be a bad idea either to soak it in WD40 or such for a few hours, or overnight just to loosen the rust, that is, of course if you can get the grips off.

You should be ok as regards the blueing as P'07 bayonets were only blued as far as the ricasso (with exception of Australian made bayonets which were fully blued), its not Australian is it? :P. But above everything else what you need is patience and care and you should be satisfied with the results.

Check out the attachment below, a Brown Bess that I worked on recently, all I used was 0000 wirewool and WD40 and sealed/polished it with wax then!






Keep us updated

Grizzly 45

Good Lord Allmighty Croppy!! Where did you get that musket????It looks like the wood worm moved in there in droves.:eek::D.Is the woodwork salvageable??
Nice clean up job though on the metal work.:)
On keeping bayonets and such shiny, light clean of surface rust as described,and gun petroloum jelly on the metal bits or vaseline works a treat.

cochineal

Regarding waxing metal, you need to use a wax who's glass transition temperature is above room temperature i.e. that is solid at room temperature. Vaseline is soft at room temperature, is easily rubbed off and will hold and attract dust, which is visually disfiguring and hygroscopic ie. it will absorb and hold water. Cosmoloid (applied with white spirit) or Renaissance Wax are microcrystalline waxes that can be recommended for use. It is essential that you cover the metal over it's entire surface or you will encourage further corrosion.

These softer waxes have been traditionally used for metal objects in use, where they are regularly replenished, but are not the answer for objects that have become "artefacts". See the following for a little military history aside: http://tmg110.tripod.com/usarmyh1.htm

SpitfireIV

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Good Lord Allmighty Croppy!! Where did you get that musket????It looks like the wood worm moved in there in droves.....

Well, this thread has been quite for long enough, so I'm gonna nick it!

Grizzly there was droves alright, I think there was enough woodworm in the stock to classify it as a small country (in Woodworm terms). They had however long since vacated with the exception of a few long since dead ones.

I do a bit of voluntary work for the County Carlow military museum and a number of months back we had a local bring this 'relic' of a musket into us. The man says he found it a number of years back in the attic of an old house that was about to be pulled down! He found this musket along with another (which he mislayed unfortunately). The stock was eaten alive by woodworm as you can see! It must have been laying on its left side as that has survived remarkably well, the right side however is well chewed up and in many places around the buttstock the timber is very soft, its almost like a thin shell of the stock!

I was given the task of cleaning her up and making her presentable, which I really enjoyed doing, not everyday that you get the chance to work on a 200 year old piece of history! Apart from the woodworm and surface rust, she was in great nick! The lock is still in perfect working order with strong springs and none of the screws were rusted tight.

She's a third model or India Pattern land musket (Brown Bess) circa 1796-1830, although I believe she is post 1808 as it has a 'reinforced' cock, so that might rule out any 1798 connect, although, the cock could be a later addition/replacement.

How she ended up in the attic of an old house, god only knows! Having worked on it and studied it closely I believe it was damaged (badly) at some stage in its life, it recieved a hard blow, or knock, which bent the barrell tang and trigger guard as well as cracking and possibly removing the forward end of the stock, thus exposing a lot of fresh, untreated timber, for woowworm to launch there invasion! :P

Some before and after pics:












BO stamp (Board of Ordnance - predecessor to the War Department) also a stylised 'GR' symbol for King George III



Some images of the finished lock:




The display stand I made for it, she can now be seen at the County Carlow Military Museum

cochineal

You've done a fantastic job there. A lot of work on that stand. The only thing I would suggest is that you tone the white paint down as its distracting the eye from the artefact- you don't want them fighting with each other for the viewer's attention. Could I also ask what wood and paint you used? I generally recommend zero-formaldehyde MDF and Dacrylate as they don't off-gas too much. I'd also put a thin strip of plastazote between the artefact and the stand where they touch - it's an inert barrier layer that will prevent any corrosion. Lovely job though. Carlow military museum are very lucky to have you.

SpitfireIV

Thanks cochineal

The stand was finished with your average Dulux satin paint, I hadnt given it much thought to be honest, would you suggest that I amend that?

The images of the gun on the stand were taken just before I had finished the job, since then I've added foam pad to the tops of the stand legs, the foam is a fairly rigid type so it provides some cushioning and also gives a little more support than just the timber. Do you think this may be a problem?

I appreciate the input, this gun, in a way is part of my display for 1798 items so I'd like to have everything in order.

Grizzly 45

Indeedy! Well done CB! A fine restoration job on what looked like a hopeless case.I tip my cap in your direction Sir!:D

cochineal

Hi Croppyboy, No the foam is very good - just be careful that you use the right type otherwise it can break down and damage the artefact. For example, if you used a pvc-based plastic this can break down to release hydrochloric acid. Try Plastazote if you can get it - look at the following site www.pel.co.uk - it's a supplier of conservation products. It's important what paint you use as these too can release acidic vapours - anything with a high v.o.c. content should be avoided. Make sure the display case is well ventilated to prevent a build-up of gases. Take a look at the article entitled "The Good, the Bad and The Ugly" by John Treault I think of the Canadian Conservation Institute - i think it's on their website www.cci.ca - a google search will locate it quickly too. It describes what products to use in displays. Good luck!

kowloon

I believe Vaseline and the likes stain blades permanently over time.
I use the renaissance wax and pretty much nothing else as long as there is no active rust.

Cochineal, would that course run during the summer? I would love to take a course like that but I'm only free during the hols.