Advice on setting up new room.

ICN

Finally getting around to setting back up my room after nearly 4ish months. really looking forward to making music again.

So I've Moved house & have a room 3.3m X 3.3m.

1 Window. Solid Oak door & Concrete block walls. Wooden floorboards, covered with a Rug.

I'm hoping to put my desk / monitors etc.. at the top of the room. Totally computer based. I'm going to have my decks along the left wall with the door.


But just before I go about it.. I just want to know if you guys have any advice on how to treat the room for better accuracy. Soundproofing is not an issue. Its situated right at the end of the house. Its a Bungalow down the country.. so no neighbours to worry about! :pac:

I'm figuring on getting a shelving unit for the back of the room anyway (going up to Ikea next week..) - so that will be a bit of a diffuser.. But I'm just wondering if there are any wise eyes & ears that could give a few pointers before I begin.

I cant really afford to get the Auralex rig-out at the moment.. I'm going to make a few frames with wood / fabric and foam.. Sorry Guys if this sounds completely mental.. but I'm just hoping to get some advice on the ideal positioning of panels maybe.. Fcuk it.. It'll improve the space no doubt.. IF its done right! Hahaha!

Would I need to treat the door / window in any way? I understand that sound is like water & bounces off surfaces that are not porous. We've got wooden blinds in the room. However.. I dont want to totally make the place sound like a dead zone either.


I'd really appreciate any views / advice y'all might have. I want to get it as right as I can - :pac:

Cheers!


http://img368.imageshack.us/my.php?image=roomtx7.jpg

Blame MS paint!

teamdresch

Google Ethan Winer.
His site's got loads of good information.

PaulBrewer

With two measurements the same she's going to be a bit of dog unless there's significant treatment.

What ever you are going to do put it in the top corners to maximise it's effectiveness.

Despite what some guys think (and despite the fact we distribute Auralex!) it is in fact only foam.

It's buying advantages are - measured performance, fire rating and aesthetic qualities but it doesn't have a particular sonic advantages on your home made stuff.

At 3.3m you'll have modes at 104.06, 208.12, 312.18 according to my Widget. These will be boosted by the rooms other axis's modes being the same.

Stack as much shizit as you can in the corners and avoid having you speakers up against the wall.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

your room is basically same as mine but about 20% larger .

to be honest - if you plan to record AND mix in it - I feel you are better off leaving the floor bare wood , deading the ceiling . and putting rockwool bass traps wall to celing in each corner , and along the ceiling / wall corners.

the room will be very dead - but very controlled .

about a foot deep in the corners and 1.5 feet across in the corners , and 1.5 by 4 feet panels around the celing / wall corners.

you can do it using hardware dust sheets , doubled over and filled with rockwool ( the slab version not the fluffy atic version )
to stop the wool leaking out , but letting the sound in .

otherwise get the aurelx room treatment - which looks better and takes up less space.

put you desk and monitors at the window end as this is also a bass trap .

i have so much bass trapping at the desk end wall that my monitors sit only 6 inches from the wall , but this is covered in bass trapping - so the speakers actually measure flat enough at the mix spot.as they are sitting against a bass trap in reality.

careful moving / trapping and measuring got me to a point where the mix spot is flat enough
within about +- 4db from 40 to 400 hertz which is the important bit .

but take your time to get it right , as its crucial to create translatable mixes.

its good enough considering it was a disaster until i treated it , the room modes where savage.
this is the single best thing you can do to create a good studio / mix environment.

and good luck !

PaulBrewer

What height is the room?

i57dwun4yb1pt8

doh, I forgot to ask that !

good man !

( id say if its above 9 feet leave it bare and see if the comb filtering is acceptable )

ICN

DaDumTish wrote: »

your room is basically same as mine but about 20% larger ......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

................... and good luck !

Lots of stuff there Mate.. need to digest that.. But sounds logical!

Yeah.. I want to get it as good as I can. Nice one!

ICN

PaulBrewer wrote: »

What height is the room?

Thanks for your calculations P.

Apologies.. 2.4m - Forgot to put that in.


Would / Do I need to stick a panel on the ceiling Lads?

ICN

teamdresch wrote: »

Google Ethan Winer.
His site's got loads of good information.

Cheers.. Will definitely check that out.

PaulBrewer

ICN wrote: »

Thanks for your calculations P.

Apologies.. 2.4m - Forgot to put that in.


Would / Do I need to stick a panel on the ceiling Lads?

I think the more you can put in this room the better. (as an unqualified guideline)

The dominant acoustic feature is the fact that the 2 room measurements are the same and that's where the damage is done.

ICN

PaulBrewer wrote: »

I think the more you can put in this room the better. (as an unqualified guideline)

The dominant acoustic feature is the fact that the 2 room measurements are the same and that's where the damage is done.

I hear ya..

If I was to put a large Bookcase / shelving unit - I was thinking about this..

http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/60071358

.. Hopefully it would truncate the room & make it slightly less congruent?

I've got plenty of Sh1t to fill the room up with.. S'no problem there! Haha!

PaulBrewer

ICN wrote: »

I hear ya..

If I was to put a large Bookcase / shelving unit - I was thinking about this..

http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/60071358

.. Hopefully it would truncate the room & make it slightly less congruent?

I've got plenty of Sh1t to fill the room up with.. S'no problem there! Haha!

I don't think a shelving unit will have any effect on the lower frequencies.

ICN

PaulBrewer wrote: »

I don't think a shelving unit will have any effect on the lower frequencies.

Even if one was to (forgive me.. ) pack the bottom with dense material / foam.. etc..

( All my knowledge is based on what I have read about the place.. I have no experience putting it into practice.. So I'm obviously flying blind :pac: )

PaulBrewer

ICN wrote: »

Even if one was to (forgive me.. ) pack the bottom with dense material / foam.. etc..

( All my knowledge is based on what I have read about the place.. I have no experience putting it into practice.. So I'm obviously flying blind :pac: )

I can't honestly say.

But I can say that lowend treatment is more effective in corners - so for a given volume of material it will absorb more low frequencies the closer it is to the corner between 2 walls and ceiling and/or floor.

ICN

PaulBrewer wrote: »

I can't honestly say.

But I can say that lowend treatment is more effective in corners - so for a given volume of material it will absorb more low frequencies the closer it is to the corner between 2 walls and ceiling and/or floor.

Sound as..

i57dwun4yb1pt8

i got the rock wool from b+q in liffey valley for about 30 quid a bale ( 10 sheets 5o mil thick 2 by 4 feet long )

i used about 4 bales in the room ;-)

ICN

DaDumTish wrote: »

i got the rock wool from b+q in liffey valley for about 30 quid a bale ( 10 sheets 5o mil thick 2 by 4 feet long )

i used about 4 bales in the room ;-)

Cheers Tony - I'll check them out. That would be ideal.

My Wife would ****ing freak if she saw me coming wiith 4 Bales of Rockwool!!

It would be just one more piece of evidence in her eyes.. proving that I havent grown up at all yet.

LOL!! :pac:

i57dwun4yb1pt8

well, i got laffed at by all and sundry , so take it like a man ;-)

ICN

Just got everything set up..

Some bass in the room alright!

Definitely will need to sort out the corners.. & everything else :pac:


A work in progress me thinks. Thanks for all the advice Lads.

PaulBrewer

ICN wrote: »

Some bass in the room alright!

Gosh :eek:

ICN

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Gosh :eek:

That was for you City Slickers

It originally was - Bitteen Bass in the room alright.

PaulBrewer

ICN wrote: »

That was for you City Slickers

It originally was - Bitteen Bass in the room alright.

I'm a culchie Horse, I only ACT like a City Slicker ...

ICN

PaulBrewer wrote: »

I'm a culchie Horse, I only ACT like a City Slicker ...

A "culchie" horse is better than a Pieball anyway I suppose.. :pac:

madtheory

Paul, I really appreciate your honesty about Auralex. Fair play to you.

I'm studying this subject quite intensey at the mo, so here's my advice.

Read everything Ethan Winer has to say, it's good advice and well written. Get the room eq wizard software, if you've a PC (not a Mac) and check the room as you add treatment.

1. Trap the corners.
2. Position the speakers properly (read their instructions, and at least apply the 38% rule).
3. Put Absorption at the mirror points.

If the bookshelf is filled with books, it will help change the equal dimensions, and it might work out that you have two modes close to each other. This might give a peak that's wider than without the bookshelf (which will make the sound worse), or it might flatten it out (which is good). You won't know until you measure before and after with the Room EQ Wizard.

Also, standard rockwool isn't actually dense enough. It'll work, but it takes up more space than rigid rockwool for the same frequency of absorption. There's a guy in Kinsale sells the rigid stuff.

ICN

madtheory wrote: »

... Read everything Ethan Winer has to say, it's good advice and well written..

Yeah.. Have been reading him for the last couple of days. Really good, clear info. Plenty of food for thought.

madtheory wrote: »

... Get the room eq wizard software, if you've a PC (not a Mac) and check the room as you add treatment..

Will do..

ICN

Choices..


I've seen that yellow rigid fibreglass being used a lot.. Does anyone know if its available here?

I can see ze Yanks using it a lot.. I'm thinking its called something slightly different here.


Any massive differences?

iquinn

ICN wrote: »

Choices..


I've seen that yellow rigid fibreglass being used a lot.. Does anyone know if its available here?

I can see ze Yanks using it a lot.. I'm thinking its called something slightly different here.


Any massive differences?

Not sure where you're based, but you can get Rockwool semi-rigid and rockwool flexi here:

http://www.irishinsulations.ie/inside.asp?sectionid=16

It's roughly about €70 (+VAT) for 8 - 600 x 1000mm rigid slabs.

I'm not sure how that compares to B&Q already mentioned.

The rigid comes in various density's and thickness RW3, 4, 5, 6 etc. For first reflection points 50 or 75mm RW3 is probably best, for corners about 4-6" of RW5 with a gap behind would be a good starting point.
As far as I remember RW3 is the equivalent of Owens Corning 703, which is used in a lot of US acoustic products.
If your ceiling is less than 10ft high then maybe 100mm Rockwool flexi would work better in the ceiling panel....if you're putting one in.
I've used Hessian to cover bass traps, I find that worked great. It's cheap and the weave is plenty wide to let air/sound in.


I had better results changing from the flexi/fluffy type to the rigid type, but I also changed the material that covered them, so that was a factor also.

Just my opinion based on my own trials and tribulations over the years.
I have real traps also, they are really great, but they're just rigid fibre glass covered with felt.

ICN

iquinn wrote: »

Not sure where you're based, but you can get Rockwool semi-rigid and rockwool flexi here:

http://www.irishinsulations.ie/inside.asp?sectionid=16

It's roughly about €70 (+VAT) for 8 - 600 x 1000mm rigid slabs.

I'm not sure how that compares to B&Q already mentioned.

The rigid comes in various density's and thickness RW3, 4, 5, 6 etc. For first reflection points 50 or 75mm RW3 is probably best, for corners about 4-6" of RW5 with a gap behind would be a good starting point.
As far as I remember RW3 is the equivalent of Owens Corning 703, which is used in a lot of US acoustic products.
If your ceiling is less than 10ft high then maybe 100mm Rockwool flexi would work better in the ceiling panel....if you're putting one in.
I've used Hessian to cover bass traps, I find that worked great. It's cheap and the weave is plenty wide to let air/sound in.


I had better results changing from the flexi/fluffy type to the rigid type, but I also changed the material that covered them, so that was a factor also.

Just my opinion based on my own trials and tribulations over the years.
I have real traps also, they are really great, but they're just rigid fibre glass covered with felt.

iquinn Mate - Thank you very much.

Extremely kind of you to go to all that trouble.. Appreciate it

I was looking around for ages & was at a bit of a loss to say the least.

Cheers again..

i57dwun4yb1pt8

get the more rigid stuff if you can takes up less space , and is less floppy !