Students' Union Christmas Wishes Poster

RS6

What another fine example of the Students Union wasting members money.

Stabshauptmann

says it all to be tbh

Pride Fighter

What would you prefer them to do?

Alyosha

Had to laugh at our SU President before one of my exams on Monday. Standing outside the entrance to Industries Hall with a big box of lollipops. With "Tá mé completely as mo bhosca" splashed across his chest. Keep up the good work Aodhán!

The_Minister

How else are they going to run for councillor next year?

RS6

Pride Fighter wrote: »

What would you prefer them to do?

Not waste students money on unnecessary posters?

Pride Fighter

RS6 wrote: »

Not waste students money on unnecessary posters?

How is it a waste of money? If they did not spend it, it would go to waste. If you dont use it you lose it. I'd hardly call spending a bit of cash wishing us a happy christmas a waste.

spudington16

Pride Fighter wrote: »

How is it a waste of money? If they did not spend it, it would go to waste. If you dont use it you lose it. I'd hardly call spending a bit of cash wishing us a happy christmas a waste.

Gentlemen and lady folk of Boards, permission to call this user a moron???

What did what you just said even mean? Any number of ways would be a better way to spend it - maybe campaigns that directly benefit students in some way? Like extend services for more STI screenings or free contraception? They're fecking throwing good money away on those posters.

They didn't have a post-Ramadan celebration poster with a slogan like "Fair play to the Muslims - they're a great bunch of lads!", and similarly plenty of other denominations' celebrations aren't acknowledged in such a way, so why Xmas??

Pride Fighter

spudington16 wrote: »

Gentlemen and lady folk of Boards, permission to call this user a moron???

What did what you just said even mean? Any number of ways would be a better way to spend it - maybe campaigns that directly benefit students in some way? Like extend services for more STI screenings or free contraception? They're fecking throwing good money away on those posters.

They didn't have a post-Ramadan celebration poster with a slogan like "Fair play to the Muslims - they're a great bunch of lads!", and similarly plenty of other denominations' celebrations aren't acknowledged in such a way, so why Xmas??

Using 50-100 euro is obviously a huge expenditure:rolleyes:
The Union gets a lot of flak, some of it rightfully so. But to give them flak for wishing us a happy christmas is a bit much.

Notorious

Pride Fighter wrote: »

...The Union gets a lot of flak, and rightfully so....

FYP

hazelboots

spudington16 wrote: »

so why Xmas??

because the majority of people in this country, christian, muslim, atheist or otherwise celebrate christmas! appealing to the majority isnt discriminating against the minority! im all for a post-ramadan poster but sure you'd all be complaining then that wishing people a great ramadan is a waste of money and the complaint would probably be the same! 'why ramadan?'

the students union has its problems but if wishing me a happy christmas gets their faces out there again and keeps people thinking about the union- i say spend the money!

Mr.Nice Guy

I've criticised the SU in the past over matters but I think it's a bit OTT to criticise them for producing a poster wishing students a Merry Christmas!

spudington16 wrote: »

Gentlemen and lady folk of Boards, permission to call this user a moron???

:rolleyes:

spudington16 wrote:

They didn't have a post-Ramadan celebration poster with a slogan like "Fair play to the Muslims - they're a great bunch of lads!", and similarly plenty of other denominations' celebrations aren't acknowledged in such a way, so why Xmas??

And you're insinuating another person is a moron?

As hazelboots said, Christmas is perhaps the most significant time of the year for the majority of people, as well as being the holiday which marks the end of the first semester. The second semester is a good few weeks away.

The very idea that the Union would send out a message of goodwill to the student populace at this time! Jeez it's almost like they're trying to identify with the students or something...

If I come back in January and find posters wishing me a good 2009 I am going to be PISSED OFF.

The_Minister

spudington16 wrote: »

Gentlemen and lady folk of Boards, permission to call this user a moron???

Denied.

They didn't have a post-Ramadan celebration poster with a slogan like "Fair play to the Muslims - they're a great bunch of lads!", and similarly plenty of other denominations' celebrations aren't acknowledged in such a way, so why Xmas??

1. It's Christmas. Not Xmas.
2. The vast majority of UCD students, even those of different religions mark Christmas somehow.
3. We have a Christmas break, during which time alot of people go home, and are miserable (there is normally at least one death over the break). No harm trying to cheer people up.

RS6

Its still an absolute waste.

Didnt they already wish us a good Christmas in their email.

Its just a tactic to make it look like the Su are out there working for the students when really they havent done much this year.

_dazed_

RS6 wrote: »

Its still an absolute waste.

Didnt they already wish us a good Christmas in their email.

Its just a tactic to make it look like the Su are out there working for the students when really they havent done much this year.

I'll be the first to admit that the su has many downfalls this year but what I don't understand is people who criticise and complain about the union when they do nothing to help fix or direct it.

If it's bothering you so much that they spent at most 100 euro on posters why don't you complain to them instead of sitting at your computer and wasting your time.

Also if you have ideas on how you would like the SU to work, why don't you go to council and mandate them to do something, or talk to the different officers to tell them what you want from them?

There's no point just complaining about it, do something about it! It really isn't that hard!

RS6

_dazed_ wrote: »

I'll be the first to admit that the su has many downfalls this year but what I don't understand is people who criticise and complain about the union when they do nothing to help fix or direct it.

If it's bothering you so much that they spent at most 100 euro on posters why don't you complain to them instead of sitting at your computer and wasting your time.

Also if you have ideas on how you would like the SU to work, why don't you go to council and mandate them to do something, or talk to the different officers to tell them what you want from them?

There's no point just complaining about it, do something about it! It really isn't that hard!

I did do something about it. I didnt join the union this year.

_dazed_

RS6 wrote: »

I did do something about it. I didnt join the union this year.

LOL! So in that case I'm guessing you got your €27 (don't quote me on that) back off them that was taken out of your registration at the start of the year? If so then it's really not your place to complain considering it's not your money that was "wasted" on it?

Also Starring LeVar Burton

Oh great, another bunch of whiners complaining about how the union do nothing for them. Change the record - if the Union weren't there, you'd notice it.
I think the Sabbats and the others holding full time positions in the Union should all take a well deserved two week holiday and while they're gone UCD will go to the s**ts and people will realise how much work everyone puts in, once the library closes because of cutbacks and the students living on res are locked in/out by the prison gates.
If you have a problem with how the union operates, run in the next elections and make a difference, otherwise shut the f**k up.
The poster is a great idea - maybe some of you are happy and have no worries, but there are plenty of students who are absolutely miserable and a bit of holiday cheer sent their way makes a huge difference - Is it a waste of money if it stops one person from self harm?

RS6

CaptainNegative wrote: »

Is it a waste of money if it stops one person from self harm?

Very extreme example.

Money spent on posters in this case is prob better put towards niteline.

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

RS6

Solitaryman666 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Wastage is wastage, doesnt matter if it €1 or €1,000.

Tayto2000

I have a question - How many people do you think would pay for membership of the students union if it wasn't compulsory?

Christmas posters - don't see the problem really. I notice that a lot of buildings and the libraries have put up Christmas trees and/or decorations, it's probably a waste of money too but it looks nice, is cheering and I notice no-one has complained about it. Why is the SU singled out here?

Stabshauptmann

Tayto2000 wrote: »

I have a question - How many people do you think would pay for membership of the students union if it wasn't compulsory?

How many people would pay their taxes if they werent compulsory?

hazelboots

The_Minister wrote: »

Denied.

1. It's Christmas. Not Xmas.

sorry, i dont mean to nitpick but xmas is a perfectly valid way of abbreviating christmas. the word christ has been denoted by X for bleedin ages.. its like that church symbol that looks like a p on top of an x, that means christ!

33% God

Wow. Just wow.
What a ridiculously petty complaint.

I have great time for the union, In just the last 2 weeks they've stopped the gates coming into operation in Merville and they've made my exams easier by providing redbull and bananas.
I was so happy with the union desk in the RDS.

Keep up the good work.

Donald-Duck

hazelboots wrote: »

sorry, i dont mean to nitpick but xmas is a perfectly valid way of abbreviating christmas. the word christ has been denoted by X for bleedin ages.. its like that church symbol that looks like a p on top of an x, that means christ!

Go back to america

Stabshauptmann

Donald-Duck wrote: »

Go back to america

Greece actually cretin. Its not the latin letter x but the Greek symbol Chi.

Edit: Ofcourse only a moron would pronounce it exsmas, its shorthand for Christmas

hazelboots wrote:

the word christ has been denoted by X for bleedin ages.. its like that church symbol that looks like a p on top of an x, that means christ!

Its the Greek letter Rho. Rho and Chi fused means Jesus Christ. And an ellipse has three dots.

The_Minister

Kaptain Redeye wrote: »

Greece actually cretin. Its not the latin letter x but the Greek symbol Chi.

Edit: Ofcourse only a moron would pronounce it exsmas, its shorthand for Christmas

Cretin.

Cretin.

Cretin.

Ah yes, somebody from the isle of Crete.

Because if you meant anything else it would be personal abuse.

Tayto2000

Kaptain Redeye wrote: »

How many people would pay their taxes if they werent compulsory?

That's an atrocious analogy. Paying membership fees to a union is in no way comparable to taxes. Membership of a Union is supposed to be voluntary. How would people feel if SIPTU started taking membership fees from PAYE revenue without asking?

Stabshauptmann

Tayto2000 wrote: »

That's an atrocious analogy. Paying membership fees to a union is in no way comparable to taxes. Membership of a Union is supposed to be voluntary. How would people feel if SIPTU started taking membership fees from PAYE revenue without asking?

Whats in a name? Does SIPTU run shops, bars, concerts, buses? In many parts of the world UCDSU would be described as a student governement

Jev/N

CaptainNegative wrote: »

Oh great, another bunch of whiners complaining about how the union do nothing for them. Change the record - if the Union weren't there, you'd notice it.
I think the Sabbats and the others holding full time positions in the Union should all take a well deserved two week holiday and while they're gone UCD will go to the s**ts and people will realise how much work everyone puts in, once the library closes because of cutbacks and the students living on res are locked in/out by the prison gates.
If you have a problem with how the union operates, run in the next elections and make a difference, otherwise shut the f**k up.
The poster is a great idea - maybe some of you are happy and have no worries, but there are plenty of students who are absolutely miserable and a bit of holiday cheer sent their way makes a huge difference - Is it a waste of money if it stops one person from self harm?

Agree fully with this

Tayto2000

Kaptain Redeye wrote: »

Whats in a name? Does SIPTU run shops, bars, concerts, buses? In many parts of the world UCDSU would be described as a student governement

They do a lot of things, but nothing that's wildly beyond what many unions do for their members. And describing them as a government certainly doesn't give them the right to collect taxes!

A union has members, members should be free to join or not. Is it any wonder that people resent an organisation that they have been effectively forced to join and feel little affiliation with?

I would love to see someone actually pressing for the refund of their union membership from the registration fee. Big can o'worms...

Stabshauptmann

It can be hard to take a step back and look at the tecnical arrangements, but technically you dont pay SU membership.

Technically you pay the college; what they choose to do with the money has nothing to do with you. The college funds the SU. You can leave the SU - quite easily, but you are not entitled to any refund because you never paid anything.

I think though that if someone did succeed in negotiating down the admin fee, thats no guarentee you would have heard about it.

bnt

Is this thread about the posters up in the toilets at the RDS? Awful picture, looks like it was taken on a cheapo camera by someone who didn't know how to use it. They have red eye, for crying out loud, something most cameras can avoid if you just turn on "red eye reduction". :rolleyes:

Yes, it does matter. A bad picture detracts from its subject, just as poor grammar detracts from the message you're trying to deliver.

spudington16

Tayto2000 wrote: »

A union has members, members should be free to join or not. Is it any wonder that people resent an organisation that they have been effectively forced to join and feel little affiliation with?

I would love to see someone actually pressing for the refund of their union membership from the registration fee. Big can o'worms...

+1.

A union could be defined as "a number of persons, states, etc., joined or associated together for some common purpose: student union; credit union", so if students feel that their SU has lost touch with their needs or views (or they simply don't see a need for its existence), surely it should be possible to pay a (slightly) reduced registration fee to UCD at the start of each year so that no money goes directly to the SU. As previously mentioned, surely we should have the right not to join, or to disociate ourselves from, an SU.

Tayto2000

Kaptain Redeye wrote: »

It can be hard to take a step back and look at the tecnical arrangements, but technically you dont pay SU membership.

Technically you pay the college; what they choose to do with the money has nothing to do with you. The college funds the SU. You can leave the SU - quite easily, but you are not entitled to any refund because you never paid anything.

I think though that if someone did succeed in negotiating down the admin fee, thats no guarentee you would have heard about it.

Like I said, I don't have a problem with spreading a bit of Christmas cheer with some posters. And this years lot have actually done a lot of good, especially lately with the shuttle buses and exam support. I'm less impressed by the time and effort wasted on stuff like the gates thing (which I still think is a non-issue, especially now it's been postponed to September so there can be no claims of bait-and-switch with the res rules).

The fact that the cash is collected as part of the registration fee is a technicality, it's still a membership fee for the union. If it's not, it shouldn't be descibed as such.

I'm sure there must be someone who has managed to get it back at some point by now but you're probably right, we wouldn't hear about it. And why would it be kept quiet do you think? Because a large number of people would follow suit?

mad lad

SU's rely on college admins for their funding. This puts them in a position were they feel that they have to embrace a 'partnership model' with the colleges. If a radical student movement ever emerged in Ireland, the SUs would simply have their funding cut off because they don't get it directly from students.

I'm not a huge fan of the way things operate here (from a completely different perspective to people whose whole belief system is generlly anti-unions) but I still wouldn't move to the Australian system of voluntary student unionism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_student_unionism

Stabshauptmann

Tayto2000 wrote: »

The fact that the cash is collected as part of the registration fee is a technicality, it's still a membership fee for the union. If it's not, it shouldn't be descibed as such.

Its not a technicality in the sense I think you're applying the word.

The money isnt being collected on behalf of the SU by the college and passed on.
eg. the su asks the college to charge each student 20quid.

The college collects what money it deems fit, and passes on what money it deems fit to the SU (unless there is a min. contribution defined somewhere in law).

this money isnt even the SU's to spend as they see fit, there is a university member of staff who signs off on spending.

The college also passes on money to societies, sports club, the orchestra etc. its their prerogative how they spend their money. I heard from a current sabbat that the funding for societies was less this year that last year, but I took it with a lot of salt. This sabbat also estimated my salary at 100k* and that bus drives should earn 70k.

And Im not sure where you saw a breakdown of what the admin fee covers, because thats something many an SU president has tried and failed to get. The estimates of the membership fee are afaik the SU funding received / number of students. But thats not to say that thats how the college worked it out (it might be).

So no, its not a membership fee. Or at the very least, you didnt pay it.

Why someone wouldnt make a big deal?
Well maybe they didnt want to rick the boat i.e. if everyone did it then the loophole would be closed
Or maybe there were special circumstances why they could do it but noone else.
Or maybe they were just a git.




*Obviously I wouldnt get out of bed for that chicken feed.

Tayto2000

Kaptain Redeye wrote: »

And Im not sure where you saw a breakdown of what the admin fee covers, because thats something many an SU president has tried and failed to get.

Interesting. Maybe when the colleges are made to publish accounts it'll come out. I presume an FOI request has been tried?

Stabshauptmann

CaptainNegative wrote: »

If you have a problem with how the union operates, run in the next elections and make a difference, otherwise shut the f**k up.

That is idiotic reasoning.

There are more ways to influence the union than by running for one of the many positions. Canvassing your council rep or the sabbats is one. I know that at least 3 of the current sabbats read boards, 2 are regular enough posters here. There is a boards policy that those who hold an SU position declare that before posting on SU threads, but many ppl trying not to declare it unless spotted. Its very hard to enforce. Infact the majority of hacks read boards, and even a few staff. Just because they dont post doesnt mean they're not taking feedback on board.

Even if you held an SU position, thats no guarantee you could effect change.

There are substantial barriers to running. Time and money being the most obvious.

Its not practical to seize control of everything you dont like. I dont like the way America or Anglo Irish Bank are run, but Im not going to take them over. Are you a megalomaniac?

Stabshauptmann

Tayto2000 wrote: »

Interesting. Maybe when the colleges are made to publish accounts it'll come out. I presume an FOI request has been tried?

We know what money comes in and goes out, but how the figure for the registration fee is derived is unknown.

Im of the opinion is that they ask for as much as they can, add it to the war chest, and spend as they need to. Rather than raising money with specific needs / costs in mind.

Edit:Im far more interested in the SU's accounts tbh. All presidents love to dodge this one as long as possible and frankly I find it a disgrace there isnt a section of the website where all minutes and accounts can be easily found. Transparent me arse.

Infact what few minutes were online now return a 404. And iirc our current ents officer Gary Redmond deleted the newswire (the SU's version of boards) despite there being a mandate not to.

RIP-sanity

The_Minister wrote: »

Denied.

3. We have a Christmas break, during which time alot of people go home, and are miserable (there is normally at least one death over the break). No harm trying to cheer people up.

Agreed. And I really don't know why.

33% God

Tayto2000 wrote: »

I would love to see someone actually pressing for the refund of their union membership from the registration fee. Big can o'worms...

I'd like to see that person prove that they hadn't used any of the union's services.

RS6

33% God wrote: »

I'd like to see that person prove that they hadn't used any of the union's services.

For example?

Tayto2000

33% God wrote: »

I'd like to see that person prove that they hadn't used any of the union's services.

That's completely irrelevant, and they don't have to either. It's up to the union whether or not they want to deny their services to non members. The point here is membership and the fact that it's compulsory.

(For the record, the effective policy on this is pretty enlightened, non members aren't asked to pay extra for union services.)

RS6 wrote: »

For example?

I think 33% God has been impressed by the bananas and red bull at the RDS

Stabshauptmann

Tayto2000 wrote: »

The point here is membership and the fact that it's compulsory.

you can leave quite easily. You are not entitled to any sort of refund because you didnt pay any membership fee

Tayto2000

Kaptain Redeye wrote: »

You are not entitled to any sort of refund because you didnt pay any membership fee

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Although a funny thought strikes me, how would you prove you are a member? You never sign anything and there is no record of interaction between you and the SU...

lizzyvera

There are plenty of good reasons not to like the union, the posters are a minor issue.

I wanted my 50c back for the weekend they went away and pissed in the electrics of the accommodation. I went to see the president about it. He lied to me, of course, and said it hadn't happened, although my friend witnessed it. He also said they might be starting legal proceedings against the owners of the accommodation for releasing private information about them, and against the paper for making the claims. The problem with politicians is that they won't admit when they're wrong.

You’re perfectly entitled to complain about the union- they’re your union! I often send them little abusive emails and pop in to rant and make awkward requests and ask for more condoms than any reasonable person could ever, ever use.

It's actually good fun trying to get your money's worth- apart from going to anything ents do like those awful lose-your-virginity themed nights out with a load of ugly randy weirdos who think they might. Ugh.

passive

lizzyvera wrote: »

I often send them little abusive emails and pop in to rant and make awkward requests and ask for more condoms than any reasonable person could ever, ever use..

Wow... you're so cool.

Tayto2000

lizzyvera wrote: »

I wanted my 50c back for the weekend they went away and pissed in the electrics of the accommodation. I went to see the president about it. He lied to me, of course, and said it hadn't happened, although my friend witnessed it. He also said they might be starting legal proceedings against the owners of the accommodation for releasing private information about them, and against the paper for making the claims. The problem with politicians is that they won't admit when they're wrong.

Yeah, that whole episode was pretty hilarious with the Pres denying it in the face of all the bebo pics and blogs which were hurriedly taken down as word got out...

Nothing like empty legal threats to really make yourself look ridiculous.