Living in Belgium

Monkey61

Hi, just wondering if anyone can help me with this.

Basically I would love to move to Belgium for a few months to improve upon my very minimal Dutch and experience living in a foreign country. Brussels, Antwerp and Ghent seem to be the main cities I would be looking at. Brussels would probably be the most ideal because a company I used to work for has a branch there.

Finding out information on the internet seems to be an absolute nightmare though. Can anybody recommend any websites for finding accomodation in Belgium? Or any discussion boards relating to this? Or any websites dealing with living in Belgium in general? Moving to London and finding a flat was hard enough, I can only imagine how impossible it might be to do this in a country where English wasn't the first language.

Thanks.

CantGetNoSleep

Sorry I can't help you but only around 15% of people in Brussels speak Dutch, all of the rest speak French

craichoe

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

Sorry I can't help you but only around 15% of people in Brussels speak Dutch, all of the rest speak French

The Belgians speak flemish (flaams) and french not Dutch, its a bit different, Belgium is a lovely place.. brussels would be your best bet for a job !

Some links for you though.

http://www.gabinohome.com/en/advert/74256
http://www.zoek-immo.be/appartementen-brussel.asp
http://www.immoweb.be/nl/immo/bedrijfsgebouw-te-huur/Brussel.htm

If its anything like the Netherlands expect it to come unfurnished ...

Tuesday_Girl

This is a good site, check out the forums

http://www.expatica.com/be/main.html

leek

im moving to a small town in Liege called Ans on the 1st Jan to play in the 4th division. apparently its a lot cheaper than brussels... cant really find any info on it... anyone know is it hard to get a job if you dont speak french/german/flemish...?

I too am moving to Belgium next year and there's surprisingly little info on the net. There doesn't seem to be a main website like Daft for flatshares, there are a few sites but not sure how reliable they are. It would be great to hear from someone living in Brussels about the best way to find a flat, the no-go zones or dodgy areas, ways to meet people, etc. I'm going on my own and really apprehensive at the moment. I was thinking about maybe doing some French classes for 2 weeks or so on arrival to possibly meet people and improve my French - does anyone know of a good, reasonably priced school? I was looking at Amira...

Also, would it be mad to live in Antwerp but work in Brussels? It seems like a much nicer city, but it might be way too much hassle to commute every day?

Micamaca

Here's another useful site for info and especially the forum.
http://www.xpats.be/

I was thinking of moving to Belgium some years ago and this crowd did send me a welcome pack. It's on the above site under newcomer.

If you email the belgian embassy, they will send you a magazine for people moving to Belgium...it's produced quarterly or summat. I think you might get the same one anyway when you email xpats.be.

Best way to find out if you can hack the commute is post on forums mentioned and research the timetable. http://www.b-rail.be/main/index.html
Keep in mind you may have to get a tram to the train station first, it all adds up. It also depends on what you're used to here. If you're already spending an hour and a half commuting, then fine. Ghent was about 30 mins on the train from Brussels and had quite a good service. But the trains were packed at peak hours. If you can pick up some language skills before you go, especially French, then you should. It will make finding a job easier. Good luck.

DublinWriter

Monkey61 wrote: »

Brussels would probably be the most ideal because a company I used to work for has a branch there.

Having worked in Brussels myself, it wouldn't be the ideal place if you wanted to improve your Dutch. Although it's officially a bi-lingual city, French is predominately spoken.

I had lots of friends that lived in the nearby college Flemish town of Leuvan. It's only 30km from Brussels and has great bars and tons of young people living there.

Remember that Flemish isn't Dutch.

damonjewel

Why don't you have it both ways, by living in Breda in the Netherlands, its a lovely town near the Dutch/Belgian border with a great scene for bars and clubs etc. Antwerp, Bruges, Liege and Brussels are very easy to get to if you had a car. I lived there for a year and really enjoyed it.

rugbyman

To Izzy Wizzy,

If you want to improve your French, then Antwerp ,which is Flemish might not be the place. travelling between the two is easy, but from rail station to rail station. your home to your work place might not be.
As has been pointed out above Brussels (which is in Flanders) speaks mostly French.

Virtually everyone who speaks Flemish can speak English. In rural Wallonie,(the french speaking part of Belgium) you will meet many who cannot speak English ,though I find that an advantage as you must speak French to converse.

Accomodation is cheaper than Ireland. 300 euro/month will get you a CHEAP flat , while 500 will get you a GOOD one.

Though it can seem dreary, Belgium is quite a nice place to live.

Void

Hi, I just left Belgium after living in Brussels for ~14 months. Some tips for you:

Belgium doesn't exist in the "real" world that we know of, it exists in a surreal world of "chomage for life" and "le commune". Stuff you would take for granted in other countries just won't work in Belgium. If you query a Belgian on any of the unusual things they will smile and shrug, saying "it's Belgium!". Put it like this, the police just "lost" my papers etc when I applied for official residency (even as EU citizen you need to do this). Then the bank froze my account -.- Took ages to sort it out.


However, the people/place/food are amazing. Had a great time here. Note that I lived in Brussels, and my experiences outside are limited. As said above, Brussels is mostly Francophone. All Belgians are supposed to learn French+Flemish in school (just as we are supposed to learn Irish), but in reality hardly any of the Francophones speak Flemish. Conversely most of the Flemish do actually speak French, and most people speak English (they use it to communicate between flemish->walloon lol). Some random stuff about Brussels:

Wages suck unless you are working for EU.
Cost of living + rent HIGH (only in Brussels, not outside). Still nowhere near Ireland though, however you will get paid a lot less.
There is no "main" accomodation website, but many small ones. All flats/apts usually come unfurnished (this seems to apply everywhere outside ireland). BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT YOUR LEASE. In Belgium they have a standard "3 year lease" which makes you pay 3month penalty in first year, 2 month in 2nd, 1 month in 3rd (if you break lease). Very annoying, and you will find it difficult to get anything different from the "standard 3 year" (also known as a 3/6/9 as it automatically extends).

No-go area = the north of Brussels pretty much Carjacking/armed robberies everyday here.
If I had choice I would recommend living in St. Gilles area, it's close to center and cheap, and has quite a varied mix in it (in a good way).
Public transport in Brussels is EXCELLENT (after coming from ireland anywhere would be excellent haha). For the average journey you will be spoiled for choice, metros/trams/buses, all regular and on time. To save money buy yourself a monthly/yearly "abonnement" from the big stations in centre.

Belgium has the best food in the world, it's the best of French cuisine mixed with the quantity of dutch/german cuisine :P All win situation. I can't believe we dont have "les mitraillette" in Ireland... It's a baguette filled with chips+meat(sausage/burger/whatever)+salad etc. Absolutely lovely, and they munch them down in Brussels. They have waffels too, but meh.... There is the most ridiculous restaurant area in the center, I can't remember what it's called. Delerium café is hidden in there (1000+ types of beer), and there are like 500000 restaurants packed into one street, all with waiters standing outside trying to get punters in (you have to run the gauntlet to get past).

Anyways, Brussels is lovely city, and I'm glad I spent a year there checking it out (my french pretty good now as well). However, I would not recommend working in Brussels! Coming from Ireland you will find the wages insulting, and at first even though you will think shopping etc is cheap compared to Dublin, you are not realising that Brussels is probably the 2nd most expensive continental city (after Paris). I've now moved to Germany, where I get double the salary and cost of living is half :P (food sucks tho >.<)

Thanks for all the info!

Wages suck unless you are working for EU.
Cost of living + rent HIGH (only in Brussels, not outside). Still nowhere near Ireland though, however you will get paid a lot less.

Really? I've been told by friends that the wages in our field (TEFL) are much better than in Ireland, and the cost of living cheaper. I'm getting 18 euro an hour at the moment for teaching classes of 10+ and paying 500e for a single room - they were getting at least 22 euro an hour at the very least, and paying 400 or less. Obviously the economic situation has changed in the last few months since they were there, and it's quite possible that I'll be looking for any random job. I guess I'll have to wait and see what happens. Language wise, I do speak French but I'm very out of practice at the moment, so I'd rather get a teaching job or something where I'd be speaking mainly English (or Spanish, but I doubt I'll need that!) at the beginning.

Public transport in Brussels is EXCELLENT (after coming from ireland anywhere would be excellent haha). For the average journey you will be spoiled for choice, metros/trams/buses, all regular and on time. To save money buy yourself a monthly/yearly "abonnement" from the big stations in centre.

What's the metro like? Is it safe? I didn't use it when I was there, but I hear it's quite run down and shabby.

I'm getting excited about going now, even if I can't find a job, I'll hopefully get a couple of months there. Mmmm Belgian beer!! I meant to ask, what's all this about a residency permit? Why do we need one, when do you have to get it etc?

Void

You are welcome, ask anything you want.

Remember, that Ireland has the highest euro wages in the world! It's hard to understand this without leaving the country (except for hols). TAX is a LOT higher in Belgium and most other countries, this is what you pay for superior health care etc. Also, in Belgium there is no such thing as an annual salary (how surreal is that?). Everything is done monthly, and if you work 12 months in a year you will get a 13th month "bonus" in December/Jan. Also you will receive 0.8 months salary as your holiday "bonus". These aren't really bonuses since they are mandatory :P Anyway, when comparing Belgian salary vs abroad remember to multiply Belgian wage by 13.8.

As for TEFL wages, no surprise that English teachers get paid more outside an anglophone country is it? No shortage of teachers in Ireland after all. I'm sure you will have no problems getting a job in Brussels. A job as a translator for the EU would pay big bucks I bet. Speaking Flemish will significantly boost your job prospects, since all Belgian state jobs require bilinguality with the two state languages.

The metro is grand, depends on where you are going :pac: It's integrated with the tram network, trams go thru metro tunnels etc. Hard to believe Brussels has same population as Dublin and yet has this crazy metro system like London (ok not as extensive but still...).

Re: Residency permit, this is hard to describe... In reality it doesn't really matter, since we are EU citizens. However Ireland + UK are not signatories to Schengen, thus we can only stay 3 months (? or is it 6?) in any EU country at most. Pretty much everyone ignores this rule though, and the cops are unlikely to do anything than wag their finger at you. However, once you start working officially you will have loads of forms to fill out, first a visit to the police station to declare your place of residence. They will post a form to your address giving you a date/time to show up at cop shop for interview. Once this is done you go to your local Commune and register there as well. Expect to queue :mad:

And finally, be careful with that Trappist beer :P Gives an awful hangover the next day!

DublinWriter

[quote=[Deleted User];58400582]What's the metro like? Is it safe? I didn't use it when I was there, but I hear it's quite run down and shabby.[/QUOTE]
Very safe, very reliable. The combination of buses, trams and metro will get you almost anywhere around BXL without hassle.

I miss the place so much now...I wish I never saw this thread!

As for TEFL wages, no surprise that English teachers get paid more outside an anglophone country is it?

Actually, a lot of places pay very poorly - Spain,for example. The TEFL wages there compared to the cost of living are ridiculously bad. A lot of schools on the continent will employ people without TEFL qualifications, whereas in Ireland they're usually required. People on the online ESL forums act like you'd be a nutcase for considering teaching in Belgium (due to lack of jobs and plenty of teachers) but according to people I know in real life, that's a load of rubbish. I shall find out soon enough!

A job as a translator for the EU would pay big bucks I bet.

That's my ultimate dream/goal, to work as a translator/interpreter. I feel like I'd need to be much more qualified for that though (only have a BA in French and Spanish, meant to be doing an MA in Translation this year). I will definitely look into it though, would be a shame to end up working in call centre or pub when I've put so much time into my languages.

However, once you start working officially you will have loads of forms to fill out, first a visit to the police station to declare your place of residence. They will post a form to your address giving you a date/time to show up at cop shop for interview.

This is the part that seems ridiculous to me - I chose to stay in the EU so I wouldn't have to worry about this crap *sigh* How is this allowed when Belgians can come to Ireland without doing anything of the sort? I won't be able to rent my own apartment so I'd be going for a flatshare, is this acceptable? What sort of things do they ask at the interview? When do I get my ID card? The language school that offered me a few hours has demanded an official residence form and an ID card before I can start working for them. All seems very OTT to be honest but I'm getting the impression the Belgians love forms and documents!

leek

I'm moving to Ans, Liege on the 1st to play football in 4th div. Prob gonna be looking for a job in a Irish bar, is there many of them around Liege? Would i need to fill out tons of forms etc... Also anyone have a idea how much a Belgian sim card costs? cheers

seachto7

lived in Liege 10 yrs ago for 4 months. It's not a pretty city at all. fit women there though...

Void

There are Irish bars EVERYWHERE Can't specifically name one in Liege tho. I'm working in Aachen at the moment, which is just over the border from Liege/Maastricht.

To Izzy: Relax!! The documents etc are just a formality for tax purposes. I'm sure a Belgian coming to Ireland would also have to fill stuff out, once you are working and paying tax these things need to be done. The "interview" with the police is just a formality!! It's not a test. The police are very friendly I found.

Funny story: was wandering around grand place with some newly arrived friends (fresh off the train with backpacks etc) and was telling them about how friendly the police were. All of a sudden police appeared and looked suspiciously at the guys with large packs: "up against the wall and spread em"! DOH :pac:

leek

loads of Irish bars nice one, hopefully theyll hire me cause i'm Irish

Yea so lads anyone have a idea how much a Belgian sim/number will cost me?

Thanks

Void

Less than 20 euros for a simpack, same as anywhere

leek

Nice one, im here in Ans now, not too cheap at all! most of the people are absolute stuck up c***s!

will cylce down liege in a bit, wander to find irish bars cheers

seachto7

I know there is one down the end of the main street, and you swing a left and walk up a street on a hill, and I think there are 2 there. There are loads of pubs down in the "carré". You should ask them as well. They might be able to help you out.
There's a really nice Irish bar/coffee shop in Maastricht, run by an Irish guy and an Italian I think. Some really nice grub there. It's not tacky like Amsterdam, and the smoking and eating is kept away from each other. They might know someone around Liege/Luik/Luttich (!!!) as well...

anladmór

Void wrote: »

You are welcome, ask anything you want.

Remember, that Ireland has the highest euro wages in the world! It's hard to understand this without leaving the country (except for hols). TAX is a LOT higher in Belgium and most other countries, this is what you pay for superior health care etc. Also, in Belgium there is no such thing as an annual salary (how surreal is that?). Everything is done monthly, and if you work 12 months in a year you will get a 13th month "bonus" in December/Jan. Also you will receive 0.8 months salary as your holiday "bonus". These aren't really bonuses since they are mandatory :P Anyway, when comparing Belgian salary vs abroad remember to multiply Belgian wage by 13.8.

As for TEFL wages, no surprise that English teachers get paid more outside an anglophone country is it? No shortage of teachers in Ireland after all. I'm sure you will have no problems getting a job in Brussels. A job as a translator for the EU would pay big bucks I bet. Speaking Flemish will significantly boost your job prospects, since all Belgian state jobs require bilinguality with the two state languages.

The metro is grand, depends on where you are going :pac: It's integrated with the tram network, trams go thru metro tunnels etc. Hard to believe Brussels has same population as Dublin and yet has this crazy metro system like London (ok not as extensive but still...).

Re: Residency permit, this is hard to describe... In reality it doesn't really matter, since we are EU citizens. However Ireland + UK are not signatories to Schengen, thus we can only stay 3 months (? or is it 6?) in any EU country at most. Pretty much everyone ignores this rule though, and the cops are unlikely to do anything than wag their finger at you. However, once you start working officially you will have loads of forms to fill out, first a visit to the police station to declare your place of residence. They will post a form to your address giving you a date/time to show up at cop shop for interview. Once this is done you go to your local Commune and register there as well. Expect to queue :mad:

And finally, be careful with that Trappist beer :P Gives an awful hangover the next day!

:eek:

what i dont understand at all. not you, i mean what is the reason behind this?

why is ireland not part of this?

craichoe

anladmór wrote: »

:eek:

what i dont understand at all. not you, i mean what is the reason behind this?

why is ireland not part of this?

AFAIK, the Good Friday agreement is incompatibile at the moment with Schengen

I'm having trouble finding a flatshare - there doesn't seem to be much out there. Does anyone have any advice?

I'm in Brussels now, like it so far but am being messed around by the language school about a job. Anyone have any idea where I could most easily find a job? I'm up for almost anything within reason that will pay the rent in case I don't get any teaching hours - Irish bars, restaurants, whatever.