Anyone else here have ZERO interest in racing?

flickerx

(warning: potential divisive thread ahead)

Anyone else here find themselves stifling a yawn whenever racing gets brought up? This person or that team is caught cheating, that this star is going to be racing in the Giro d'Italia, that somebody is going to be riding the new 11-speed in the tour next year, etc etc... all of it really bores the hell out of me.

Maybe its because I never liked competitiveness in school - especially on the sports field. The most aggressive and dangerous scumbags would use it as an excuse to kick another shade of shít out of my shins after I'd rounded them fair and square with the ball.
Some part of me sees competitive racing as another facet of this - a boost to a macho/inflated ego, somehow making out that if you're faster than another person on a bike, then you're more of a man, your penis is bigger, you make a bigger salary, whatever. It even compares in my mind to the whole culture/psyche of boy racing with cars.

It wouldnt even be so bad, because I'm always generally happy to see people cycling in any form or another, if it wasnt for the continuous stream of news about high profile cyclists getting snared for EPO, etc. This makes me think that these guys are only in it for the fame, money, ego, glory, rather than just enjoying themselves out on the bike. When reading this recently too, I cant say I was surprised, it just struck me as what I considered a typical attitude of racing riders. For me cycling is about having fun, riding with your friends (and/or making new ones), and sticking out for one another on the roads; not separating out from each other with speed and aggression.

Raam

I enjoy cycling for what it is as a pastime, but it's not challenging enough. I've gone as far as I can with leisure cycling, so I see the racing side as a way to get some rewards both intrinsic and extrinsic. Having fun on the bike and doing it for racing are not mutually exclusive... I hope, cos' I've yet to race.

Gavin

I only have a mild interest in professional road racing, so don't pay much attention to names, teams, who's on drugs etc.

I do like the competitive aspect of cycling though, it's nice to know that one is good at something. I also like just pottering around my on bicycle.

ROK ON

flickerx wrote: »

(warning: potential divisive thread ahead)


Maybe its because I never liked competitiveness in school - especially on the sports field. The most aggressive and dangerous scumbags would use it as an excuse to kick another shade of shít out of my shins after I'd rounded them fair and square with the ball.
Some part of me sees competitive racing as another facet of this - a boost to a macho/inflated ego, somehow making out that if you're faster than another person on a bike, then you're more of a man, your penis is bigger, you make a bigger salary, whatever. It even compares in my mind to the whole culture/psyche of boy racing with cars.

IMO, competitiveness (with oneself or with others) is part of what makes us human. Most of us are competitive to some degree or other. I enjoyed playng competitove sport, and I enjoy being competitive with myself when I am out on the bike. Life can be amazingly dull if you let it, I think that competition is just mankinds way of reminding us that we are alive.
I see sport in all forms as a modern form of gladitorialism. Of course it often descends into cheating, bullying, oneupmanship, showboating. It is only natural - a reflection of who most of us are as a species. Just a load of Mr. Ordinaries who strive for some moments of our brief existence to be better than the rest (or for supporters of a team - to support a team that is better than the rest). It is the struggle that keeps life interesting. If we all just go along in a consensus, lets get on and not be competitive - then that is a society that I would find difficult if not impossible to live in. Just my opinion.

Raam

As for following the professional sport, well, I don't know if you follow any other sports, but personally I fell out of love with football a few years ago after too many dull matches.

Now I like watching a bike race and how it develops and the nuances and politics associated with the peloton.

I like Sean Kelly's soothing voice on a Sunday afternoon, it makes me sleepy

I like watching Cav go hell for leather for the line.

I like watching Alberto give it socks up the Angliru.

I like the poetry of a Team Time Trial.

I like the expression on Cadel's face as he tries to hang on to a wheel on Alpe d'Huez.

I like the ballet dance of the team cars getting through the pack.

I like the drama when the pack catches an escapee just meters from the line.

I like bike racing

Chips Lovell

Raam wrote: »

I've gone as far as I can with leisure cycling, so I see the racing side as a way to get some rewards both intrinsic and extrinsic.

Same with me. I'd a choice of going along on the same plateau of fitness or finding something new that would challenge me.

Racing is a pretty humbling experience. There is no way you can suffer like that just riding for yourself.

petethedrummer

I'm probably more interested in the use of doping products in cycling and other sports than the sports themselves. I'm always reading about it for some reason.

Harrybelafonte

Raam wrote: »

As for following the professional sport, well, I don't know if you follow any other sports, but personally I fell out of love with football a few years ago after too many dull matches.

Now I like watching a bike race and how it develops and the nuances and politics associated with the peloton.

I like Sean Kelly's soothing voice on a Sunday afternoon, it makes me sleepy

I like watching Cav go hell for leather for the line.

I like watching Alberto give it socks up the Angliru.

I like the poetry of a Team Time Trial.

I like the expression on Cadel's face as he tries to hang on to a wheel on Alpe d'Huez.

I like the ballet dance of the team cars getting through the pack.

I like the drama when the pack catches an escapee just meters from the line.

I like bike racing

I rarely watch it any more as I don't have time to and sometimes get bored as I don't know all the characters, but the above for me is why I had such a great time watching the TDF when I was young. Though I'd rarely watch all of it as I'd eventually get the bug and just head out on the bike. Same works for me know. However, a lot less fit and a lot heavier my enthusiasm usually come out of it the worse for wear

DirkVoodoo

Raam wrote: »

As for following the professional sport, well, I don't know if you follow any other sports, but personally I fell out of love with football a few years ago after too many dull matches.

:eek:

Dull? where? When? I like cycling and road racing, but heck no sport comes close to the poetry of football. I will admit that certain individuals have brought the game into disrepute. I mean, as good a footballer as Ronaldo is, he is a complete and utter tool who has an equal measure of stupidity for every moment of brilliance.

I am a chelsea man myself, but if you ever need convincing of the beautiful game, watch arsenal or barcelona knock a ball around the park.

Chips Lovell

petethedrummer wrote: »

I'm probably more interested in the use of doping products in cycling and other sports than the sports themselves. I'm always reading about it for some reason.

Ah Pete, only in it for the drugs.

Raam

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

:eek:

Dull? where? When? I like cycling and road racing, but heck no sport comes close to the poetry of football. I will admit that certain individuals have brought the game into disrepute. I mean, as good a footballer as Ronaldo is, he is a complete and utter tool who has an equal measure of stupidity for every moment of brilliance.

I am a chelsea man myself, but if you ever need convincing of the beautiful game, watch arsenal or barcelona knock a ball around the park.

I hear ya, when a game is good, it can be very very good. But man, when it's bad, I tend to switch over to Desperate Housewives. I've seen too many bad games

flickerx

ROK ON wrote: »

I see sport in all forms as a modern form of gladitorialism. Of course it often descends into cheating, bullying, oneupmanship, showboating. It is only natural - a reflection of who most of us are as a species.

Me and you are at polar ends of a spectrum. I dont mind some competitiveness I suppose, I play chess, and I'm hardly playing for a draw every time - but when it descends into cheating, steroids, bullying, violence, disrespect for other's people wellbeing in the quest for supremacy (e.g. the story at the link I posted) then is it worth hanging on to?? Cycling racing embodies some of these values to me...

You could say any human action or belief is reflective of us as a species - war, racism, murder - but that doesnt necessarily make it the right thing to do.

Diarmuid

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

but if you ever need convincing of the beautiful game, watch arsenal or barcelona knock a ball around the park.

yawn

I like racing in theory (the competitive aspect, seeing how one compares to a pro etc..) but doping has killed my real interest in bike racing.

davidsatelle100

I like being on the bike, have no interest in racing what so ever neither being in a race or watching one.

blorg

I have a mild interest in racing but prefer being on the bike. I would not cut short a good spin to watch a bike race.

Raam

blorg wrote: »

I have a mild interest in racing but prefer being on the bike. I would not cut short a good spin to watch a bike race.

There's that polar opposite thing again
I like nothing better than going out in the morning to play bikes with me buddies and then belting it home to watch the pros do it right.

Chips Lovell

blorg wrote: »

I would not cut short a good spin to watch a bike race.

If you leave at 8, you can do both. :P

ROK ON

flickerx wrote: »

You could say any human action or belief is reflective of us as a species - war, racism, murder - but that doesnt necessarily make it the right thing to do.

I agree, but I never said it is right. I enjoy watching some of the big tours - but have a strange attitude toward doping. I understand why it takes place, but I dont like that it does.
When I played competitive sport (rugby) I enjoyed the thrill of winning, and was usually depressed after a defeat. Did I cheat, yes I did. Is it wrong, in a way it is. I would consider most of what I did to be small level cheating that is encouraged on a rugby pitch (by all except a referee). There is only one cheat I committed which I have a problem with (injured a guy on purpose). It was a pretty sick thing to do, and almost 18 years later I still have a problem with it.
I guess what I was trying to convey, is that I think that competition (for good or bad) is a natural trait in society. As such that definitely manifests itself in competitive cycling. I like watching most competitive events (but dont like the dark underbelly of those events). I guess the alure of the competition (taking part or as an armchair fan) is greater than my disgust at the cheating.

Raam

el tonto wrote: »

If you leave at 8, you can do both. :P

Some day we'll have 'em all out at 8am. I'm quite surprised we managed to move the spins to 9.30 with such little protest

blorg

el tonto wrote: »

If you leave at 8, you can do both. :P

Or you could go for a longer spin

Chips Lovell

blorg wrote: »

Or you could go for a longer spin

Hey, you could go for a 400km spin if you leave early enough, but who wants to do that.

Perfect Saturday for me is 100km, home by 1pm and lunch watching a race.

Harrybelafonte

ROK ON wrote: »

I agree, but I never said it is right. I enjoy watching some of the big tours - but have a strange attitude toward doping. I understand why it takes place, but I dont like that it does.
When I played competitive sport (rugby) I enjoyed the thrill of winning, and was usually depressed after a defeat. Did I cheat, yes I did. Is it wrong, in a way it is. I would consider most of what I did to be small level cheating that is encouraged on a rugby pitch (by all except a referee). There is only one cheat I committed which I have a problem with (injured a guy on purpose). It was a pretty sick thing to do, and almost 18 years later I still have a problem with it.
I guess what I was trying to convey, is that I think that competition (for good or bad) is a natural trait in society. As such that definitely manifests itself in competitive cycling. I like watching most competitive events (but dont like the dark underbelly of those events). I guess the alure of the competition (taking part or as an armchair fan) is greater than my disgust at the cheating.

Bad loser then. Bad sportsmanship.

Gavin

flickerx wrote: »

I dont mind some competitiveness I suppose, I play chess, and I'm hardly playing for a draw every time - but when it descends into cheating, steroids, bullying, violence, disrespect for other's people wellbeing in the quest for supremacy (e.g. the story at the link I posted) then is it worth hanging on to??

That really sounds like a rough game of chess. ho ho

I do find the upper echelons of most sports somewhat off-putting. The amount of money thrown around just doesn't seem right.

SomeFool

I have never raced the bike, however i do a bit of rowing. I don't think there's anything better than the challenge of going to the start line and pitting yourself physically and mentally against others.

Funkyzeit

As a football fantastic I wouldn’t expect cycling to beat any of my experiences (standing on the Kop, being at that game in Istanbul , at Cardiff for 2 fa cup wins etc in terms of 90 mins of exhilaration

However - the obscenely overpaid diving whinging players, the 'fans' who have appeared as soon as football became trendy (Sky era) have definitely dampened my enthusiasm.

Pro cycling offers something a lot different - seeing domestics getting on with their thankless tasks, seeing sprinters struggle up the climbs, the brilliant tactics in play, The Grand Tours, The Spring Classics and seeing the riders totally and utterly on the limit giving it everything

Even with the sport in so much trouble it still makes compelling viewing and I'm already looking forward to the 2009 season...

Húrin

I like watching some cycle races in moderate doses though I don't follow the news. I think it's a crap sporting world, full of drugs.

Freewheeling Ed

Well OP, I suppose in a cycling forum, you can expect some talk about cycling racing.

And competition will always bring out "more" in people.
As you say, you dont play chess to draw.

What I have always disliked about clubs (of any kind) is that there is always a kind of pressure to "conform" to the club ideals. Which tend to expand beyond that of the "sport" involved. A pressure to adopt the "lifestyle" , as opposed to just do a bit of this or that once a week/month. Its pretty much certain, there will be someone there , to tell you immediately you arrive, "your equipment is crap , and mine is so much better than yours" .

But , there is not much point going to a croque club and complaining , some people are obsessed with croque.

On the other hand... I do have fond memories of they year I finished college, and was unemployed (cough cough) and spent the a nice july , cycling and swimming in the morning, and watching the Tour De France live on eurosport in the afternoon. Very relaxing, and especially love when the commentary went off piste... ie..."my wife got a new washing machine.. .. oh really what kind"

Great stuff.

MCOS

Not competitive!! Tsh..:rolleyes:

Me, I hate racing and I'm not competitive at all... well except for the other night when I was helping my brother painting his kitchen. My painting was both faster and smoother, I got less paint on me, I used less paint, my roller was better, I opened the lid quicker, farted louder..............

rubadub

flickerx wrote: »

Anyone else here find themselves stifling a yawn whenever racing gets brought up?

I just pass over the threads, doesn't bother me

flickerx wrote: »

Some part of me sees competitive racing as another facet of this - a boost to a macho/inflated ego, somehow making out that if you're faster than another person on a bike, then you're more of a man, your penis is bigger, you make a bigger salary, whatever. It even compares in my mind to the whole culture/psyche of boy racing with cars.

That is what might get to me. Especially the instant recommendations of road bikes or hybrids over mountain bikes, and the sneering attitude to people commuting on MTBs. It sort of reminds me of the helmet arguments, i.e. the "you would be and idiot not to wear one", is the equivalent of "you would be an idiot to commute on a MTB". They might be oblivious as to the reasons someone might commute on the MTB, sure point out the reasons but do not presume the person is ignorant about increased efficiency etc. I love seeing a lycra clad weekend roadie on his €3k bike and lashing past him on my crap looking MTB with a bag of cans in my hand;).

The problem with cycling tips is that many focus on long distance cycling on good roads (or illegally commuting on roads when they should be on a cycle track), and how to be the most efficient you can be. But many people cycle for exercise and therefore are trying to be INefficient, i.e. burn the most calories they can in a session, and do it safely.

For exercise I prefer a mountain bike above a hybrid or road bike. It has many advantages.

Stronger- in the same price range a mountain bike is nearly always going to be stronger, so last longer.
Comfortable- thick tyres and suspension systems make the ride far more comfortable so you will be more likely to go out and exercise. I find road bikes are quite uncomfortable, and unsuited to my commute route.
Slower- for the same energy usage you are going slower, so it is inherently safer to travel at slower speeds.
Crap roads- the roads are appalling in Ireland, cycletracks even worse. A road bike will not last pissing time on cycletracks, thats why people do not use them. The gardai are issued mountain bikes, and indirect admission of the unsuitablilty of the roads by the government. They go up and down kerbs & potholes like I do on my commute.
Enjoyable- you can take in scenery since you do not have to keep an eye out for all the potholes, glass, kerbs etc.
Versatile- you can obviously go off road or on bumpy trails on a (decent) mountain bike.

I have a hybrid and mountain bike. For the same 25min route on the hybrid it will take 30-35mins on a mountain bike. Adavantages of the hybrid is speed to get to the destination and exhilaration from the extra speed.

I know many commuters on MTBs would not have all that reasoning, but many do want a sturdy bike. Just like most non-helmet wearers might be oblivious to arguments against wearing them.

blorg

Dissuading people from using a MTB to commute is nothing to do with elitism, it's just common sense. Too many people use mountain bikes to commute because they are common at the very low end you can get a ****e one from Dunnes etc for €89.

If you already have a MTB, sure, you can try to commute on it, (sticking slicks on will make it a lot easier and safer) but if you are starting out I really don't see the point of buying something that is specifically designed for a purpose other than what you are going to put it to.

I don't agree that in the same price range a MTB will be stronger; quite the contrary, as you are paying for more things (suspension in particular) and there are more things to go wrong.

For the vast majority of people I think a hybrid or city bike is optimal for commuting. Fixies and road bikes are niche options. A mountain bike would be perfect if your commute was off-road

Raam

rubadub wrote: »

I love seeing a lycra clad weekend roadie on his €3k bike and lashing past him on my crap looking MTB with a bag of cans in my hand;).

Anti-elitism! That's a form of elitism itself

unionman

I generally skip over the cycling sporty news threads. I have only a passing interest in the sport and at some point whenever you watch coverage, it's just a bunch of guys riding bikes. Even the relative speed is lost on the viewer as the camera pans with the riders (same problem with Formula 1 racing). It's more fun to ride (or drive for that matter).

I've spent most of my life loathing competitive sport, for much the same reasons that flickerx mentioned (and I envy your ability to play chess flickerx, a skill that eludes me still). That loathing was quietly challenged over time by my father in law, who somehow developed my interest in watching rugby. I could never be an obsessive fan of any sport though, I get bored quickly and have no head for retaining information on names, fixtures, stats or anything like that, so as the various cycling fixtures involve foreign place names, foreign competitors and impossibly complicated team names, I tend to zone out. On top of that, the drugs thing just really drains the life out of it.

As regards competition, when I am out on the bike I am up against myself (barring the occasional commute race:D). If you want to see me compete in a ridiculously over-the-top-I-am-much-better-at-this-than-you sort of way, get me on to the subject of food and cooking. That is where I truly put on the anorak....

...it's a bit ridiculous really but there you go.

rubadub

blorg wrote: »

Dissuading people from using a MTB to commute is nothing to do with elitism, it's just common sense.

Yes, I am just talking of people like myself who are all to aware that it is not efficient and purposely choose it specifically because it is NOT efficient, I do put slicks on though, find it smoother and better grip. I did say "sure point out the reasons but do not presume the person is ignorant about increased efficiency etc." which many seem to do, maybe I am a rarity though...

blorg wrote: »

but if you are starting out I really don't see the point of buying something that is specifically designed for a purpose other than what you are going to put it to.....

A mountain bike would be perfect if your commute was off-road

My commute IS like an off road trail, I DO stick to cycletracks

blorg wrote: »

I don't agree that in the same price range a MTB will be stronger; quite the contrary, as you are paying for more things (suspension in particular) and there are more things to go wrong.

Good point. I am thinking around the €300-400 mark, and if somebody knew their stuff they would be cautious about buying suspension. The other thing I didnt mention is less milage per energy expenditure for non commuters. i.e. if I set out to burn 500kcal regardless of where I am going, then my bike will travel slightly less miles.

For the vast majority of people I think a hybrid or city bike is optimal for commuting.

Yep, I recommend them to mates moreso, one did go for the hybrid, another still insisted on the MTB. I did explain both sides, and why I have my 2 bikes.

Raam wrote: »

Anti-elitism! That's a form of elitism itself

Guilty as charged! I just think it is funny lads spending all the money on high end kit, shaving legs etc when they are really just going out for exercise and nowhere near the level where that would matter. It would be like a lad swimming once a month getting one of those full on body suits olympians wear. As I said before, like sticking a spoiler on a tractor.

Diarmuid

rubadub wrote: »

Guilty as charged! I just think it is funny lads spending all the money on high end kit, shaving legs etc when they are really just going out for exercise and nowhere near the level where that would matter. It would be like a lad swimming once a month getting one of those full on body suits olympians wear. As I said before, like sticking a spoiler on a tractor.

it like the guy going out to buy a brand new computer when a 3 year old secondhand job would do all he needs to do.
it's like a guy going out buying a BMW when a Panda will get him from Ballsbridge to Leopardstown.
it's like the guy going to the expensive resto when the cheap pizzaeria down the road will fill his belly.
etc.....

People have disposable income which they spend on "stuff". Whether they need it or not is not the point.

Chips Lovell

rubadub wrote: »

I love seeing a lycra clad weekend roadie on his €3k bike and lashing past him on my crap looking MTB with a bag of cans in my hand;).

Lycra clad road bike owners aren't usually in the habit of racing guys with bags of cans.

rubadub wrote: »

That is what might get to me. Especially the instant recommendations of road bikes or hybrids over mountain bikes, and the sneering attitude to people commuting on MTBs.

Has anyone actually sneered at you though? As far as I can recall, people give recommendations and give their reasons for them, like you're doing now. Are you sure you don't have a chip on your shoulder over this?

rubadub wrote: »

But many people cycle for exercise and therefore are trying to be INefficient, i.e. burn the most calories they can in a session, and do it safely.

If I spend an hour going all out on a road bike and an hour all out on an MTB, I'll be going faster on the road bike but still expending the same amount of energy.

rubadub wrote: »

the roads are appalling in Ireland, cycletracks even worse. A road bike will not last pissing time on cycletracks, thats why people do not use them. The gardai are issued mountain bikes, and indirect admission of the unsuitablilty of the roads by the government. They go up and down kerbs & potholes like I do on my commute.

You do realise that road bikes are raced hell for leather over cobbles in Belgium, mountain roads in Italy etc.? Believe me, they can survive Irish roads.

ROK ON

el tonto wrote: »

Lycra clad road bike owners aren't usually in the habit of racing guys with bags of cans.

I have nearly choked on a Quality street toffee reading this. The funniest thing I have read in a long while ( sad existence I guess).

quietobserver

el tonto wrote: »

Same with me. I'd a choice of going along on the same plateau of fitness or finding something new that would challenge me.

Racing is a pretty humbling experience. There is no way you can suffer like that just riding for yourself.

would agree with the suffering el tonto, i love racing and the reason i love it is the suffering, the glory is irrleveant, suffering makes you feel alive, its emotion and for the sadist like me its fun. OP I dont think you'll see a boy racer suffering doing his doughnuts. Cycling is a history and culture and to its level racing, leisure or walking your bike its all a matter of opinion

blorg

el tonto wrote: »

Lycra clad road bike owners aren't usually in the habit of racing guys with bags of cans.

A race is a race, a challenge a challenge. I would pursue

Commuter racing is the purest form of racing, whether against an opponent on a bicycle or a piece of street furniture. I had a very satisfying sprint with a traffic light this morning. Only slightly second to it is the growing sport of competitive non-competitive cycling.